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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Meta
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Meta Lily

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I'm slowing starting to hate my country. Never have in my life, but its happening. Do not ask why, I wont reply. This is not to start an arguement, just simply a statement of my opinion.


Why mention it at all then?
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by DarkwolfX37
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<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

we're going to build the wall
Ah, but I thought you'd raise that last point. However, it won't matter, because either/both (1) Mexico will surrender before the tariff even works on the American economy or/and (2) Americans will just buy more American-made stuff, since American companies will have to move out of Mexico and make things back in America. And it's not just that--Obamacare and TPP are dead, the Keystone XL is finally happening (and it's being shifted out of contested grounds), and he's met with union and business leaders that respect his incredible business skills and are ready to work things out. Under budget and ahead of schedule.
EDIT: Don't forget cutting off funding to sanctuary cities, already shutting down Miami as a sanctuary.


The wall is genuinely one of the worst possible ideas ever to come from a politician in this country. It's a waste of money, it won't do what it's purpose is, AND the construction of it is illegal, and would require waving a bunch of laws in order to do it. Even the shitty border fence we have now had to have tons of laws waved and tons of property stolen from people by the government in order to happen.
1. Doubtful. 2. No they won't. The way things are bought and sold isn't that simple. Very few american companies will move out of mexico. It would cost much, much more to relocate physical space and for the increased wages required than would be lost on the tariff, especially since raising their costs to not only cover the tariff but also make even more profit won't affect their sales much if at all. At best, the tariff will hinder additional moves out of america into mexico.
The ACA is probably going to die too, which is a bad thing. And Trump is planning to repeal Obamacare and the ACA without a plan to replace them at the time of repeal. That's a terrible thing.
We don't need the Keystone XL. Not only do we not need it, in terms of economic development, it's actually COUNTER productive. Spending that money in green energy fields would create more jobs, permanent and temporary, in MANY fields and would give some purpose to diplomas for the first time in years. Not to mention it's currently feasible to totally power the country with green methods which would cut our dependence on foreign oil literally infinitely better than any pipeline because then if it fails we don't suddenly have to make up for that loss with foreign sources. Also, unless this "move to uncontested grounds" happened in the past two days, then it's not true. Last I heard, again two days ago, the desired place moved to not only has the potential to damage a major water source for a native reservation, but also would disrupt several heritage and BURIAL sites in order to build.
"Incredible business skills." Citation needed. His "business skills" are horrible, he's only managed to do what he's done because he gets payed to put his name on things he doesn't have a hand in the business of. There's been a model done that shows that if he had done nothing with his initial million other than make investments that were obvious, even at the time, then he would have made more money by now than he actually has. For fuck's sake he chose to start a real estate business MONTHS BEFORE THE HOUSING CRASH, stating "I think now is the perfect time to get into the real estate business" in an interview about it. Trump University has been proven to be a scam, potentially very illegal, AND his "business skills" included breaking a campaign law involving his charity, not to mention the other laws he broke with his "charity."
"Under budget and ahead of schedule." Citation needed. If you're getting this from trump, it's almost certainly a lie. He's been lying as bad and sometimes worse than shillary since day one on the campaign and he hasn't stopped aside from a few of his easier campaign promises. He hasn't even kept his word to change his hair if he won and that's the EASIEST thing he could've done that he claimed he would.
And cutting off funding for health centers around the world that so much as even MENTION abortion as a potential choice regardless of what else they provide, a health disaster with the potential to be on bar with the Black Death. (If only because that happened back when the population was so much lower than the billions we have today.)

<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

His stance on the torture thing isn't a screw up to me whether I agree with it or not. It's actually entirely constitutional. It's one thing to use personal Twitter to speak one's own mind, but that's effectively the same as using company resources to berate your boss. The government is supposed to work together, not be in civil war, and they were being inappropriate for the time and place.

<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

Blocks cartels.
We don't pay for it and it saves money.
Companies have already started moving back into the U.S. It's how capitalism works; if Mexico prices get to high, we switch to something else.
You assume they'll stay in Mexico; companies follow the money.


He's said it in interviews, not just twitter. PLUS, now his opinion actually fucking matters because he would be in the position to say "go ahead and use torture," and have it happen. It's not constitutional, because it's the "dissent" was simply telling the facts when he lied on twitter. He didn't like it so he censored them, which is unconstitutional. The government isn't allowed to censor anyone for any reason, especially not the office of president. Of course nobody gives a shit when they censor military information, and they censor their horrible bullshit and get away with it (see: wikileaks sources) because they don't have to give whistle blowers a fair trial thanks to unconstitutional laws. (See: Mostly from Bush)
Also, NO. That's the stupidest thing I've heard from you in a long while. Using TWITTER is the same as using company resources? No it's not. Twitter is not suddenly a company resource just because trump is addicted to it. It's a social media platform; it's unnecessary and has nothing invested into it by the users other than 30 seconds of time, if that. Taking a leaf that falls onto the ground of the place you work at is a better analogy to what using twitter to give facts is.

No it won't. Very few cartels physically go across the border aboveground that wouldn't be able to get it over a wall. Tons use tunnels, they'd easily be able to get under, through, or over a wall no matter how it's built. Hell, they could use cheap drones, literally cannons, a ladder and a rope, tunnels, or SHIPS and the wall would be useless. The wall would LITERALLY do nothing but stop the poorest people who are coming here because they're going to die if they stay there. The ones who can't afford to come across legally or will die before they get through the process ie the ones we should actually be letting through. And that's barely any of the illegal immigrants that come from mexico. The VAST majority are people who just overstay visas.
Yes we do. Even if we only use money from a tariff, it's still US paying for it. Also, a tariff of ANY percent, at least up to 100%, wouldn't be enough to pay for a wall the kind trump described.
Two companies. Two companies that he specifically went to and gave special shit to in order to keep. And they're not "moving back here," they're just not going more over there. That's a misnomer at best and a blatant lie at worst, and is propaganda bullshit realistically.
The money is staying in mexico. You have no idea how overly simplified trump thinks economy works. He's not even moved his OWN companies back to the U.S. He's still having his shit made in china. (To be fair, we don't have a tariff on them yet.)

I'm slowing starting to hate my country. Never have in my life, but its happening. Do not ask why, I wont reply. This is not to start an arguement, just simply a statement of my opinion.


Hey, at least you're learning. That's better than before.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Meta
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Meta Lily

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@DarkwolfX37

It's not relevant whether I agree with his stance or not. I don't, but he's doing what he believes in instead of pandering.
The government is allowed to censor itself. The First Amendment doesn't protect from any and all consequences of peoples' words.
Probably because we haven't spoken in a long time and you think that anything you disagree with is stupid. It's not a very constructive train of thought.
Time. Time is a company resource, and it's being used to berate their boss.

I don't want the poor ones either. But there are plenty of test cases that prove walls do in fact work. You can obstruct tunnels by building it deeply and including seismographs (or mines if you want to be fun with it), and then there are other technologies that are available to the govt.
All of those workarounds are easily accounted for and ships don't work very well.
Overstayed visas can also be worked with internally. There are plenty of border hoppers; I live in Texas and we get some of the worst of it. Just because the majority is one thing doesn't mean we shouldn't stop lawbreakers in another; it's a false dichotomy.
The figures don't agree with that. Tax wire transfers to Mexico, strongarm them with NAFTA, cut our funding to Mexico, etc. There is a plethora of avenues that cost us nothing in the end that we wouldn't do otherwise.
Funny you mention propaganda considering the current state of affairs and media. There have been more than two, as well as others investing in the U.S.; plus, it's literally not even week 2 yet and we already have so much and it will continue to get better. The DOW continues to rise (until it inevitably crashes, whether because of a bubble or someone above it pulling the strings), but things are looking up. It's going to be good.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Multifarious
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I will just say that Trump has been in an odd teeter-totter-ish place with me recently. He gave me the impression initially that he didn't intend to actually make Mexico pay for it, which he then doubly reversed on. He then takes on Paul policy, which if you know me, I won't need to explain. Then that whole issue with his man Spicer lying about what is probably the most trivial and unimportant of things. Then he actually is doing work in his first moments in office... But some of it is just "meh", to not go into detail about it. I'm just bleh about it all right now.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Multifarious
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Oh, and I was grinding homework like crazy all day. So much physics.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Efficacy
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I will just say that Trump has been in an odd teeter-totter-ish place with me recently. He gave me the impression initially that he didn't intend to actually make Mexico pay for it, which he then doubly reversed on. He then takes on Paul policy, which if you know me, I won't need to explain. Then that whole issue with his man Spicer lying about what is probably the most trivial and unimportant of things. Then he actually is doing work in his first moments in office... But some of it is just "meh", to not go into detail about it. I'm just bleh about it all right now.


Where'd you hear Spicer's been lying, and about what?
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by DarkwolfX37
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@DarkwolfX37

It's not relevant whether I agree with his stance or not. I don't, but he's doing what he believes in instead of pandering.
The government is allowed to censor itself. The First Amendment doesn't protect from any and all consequences of peoples' words.
Probably because we haven't spoken in a long time and you think that anything you disagree with is stupid. It's not a very constructive train of thought.
Time. Time is a company resource, and it's being used to berate their boss.

I don't want the poor ones either. But there are plenty of test cases that prove walls do in fact work. You can obstruct tunnels by building it deeply and including seismographs (or mines if you want to be fun with it), and then there are other technologies that are available to the govt.
All of those workarounds are easily accounted for and ships don't work very well.
Overstayed visas can also be worked with internally. There are plenty of border hoppers; I live in Texas and we get some of the worst of it. Just because the majority is one thing doesn't mean we shouldn't stop lawbreakers in another; it's a false dichotomy.
The figures don't agree with that. Tax wire transfers to Mexico, strongarm them with NAFTA, cut our funding to Mexico, etc. There is a plethora of avenues that cost us nothing in the end that we wouldn't do otherwise.
Funny you mention propaganda considering the current state of affairs and media. There have been more than two, as well as others investing in the U.S.; plus, it's literally not even week 2 yet and we already have so much and it will continue to get better. The DOW continues to rise (until it inevitably crashes, whether because of a bubble or someone above it pulling the strings), but things are looking up. It's going to be good.


I never said it matters if you agree or not.
The First amendment specifically protects against censorship as a result of someone's words.
No you're just genuinely stupid when it comes to politics.
It's part of their jobs to inform the public of scientific information. Pointing out that trump is lying about it is not a waste of their time. And no, the president is not the boss of all the government's sectors. We have three branches for a fucking reason.
"Test cases." None on the scale trump talks about. None that cover such a large area. You are vastly overestimating.
That's not even what a false dichotomy means. Neither is it a false dichotomy. It's an issue of priorities. If 80% of the country is dying of hunger and 20 percent is dying of disease, it's much more prudent to focus on the issue of hunger if you want to save people.
They really aren't. In order to even partially cover them, we'd have to cut funding to so many things that the country might genuinely fail in order to just keep our current rate of debt.
Pretty sure trump wants out of nafta. And everything would cost us in the end. A) You're really underestimating how much this would cost and B) You're not understanding how international affairs work. You're more likely to get a major war than anything else.
Trump is actively fighting freedom of press and is spewing nothing but his own bullshit propaganda every time he opens his mouth on a subject. Things were bad before with every tv news outlet in the U.S. being propaganda but trump takes it to an entirely different dimension.
There have been two. And "investing in the U.S." means nothing. They'd do that anyway to expand and they're doing it because they're getting shit out of it, which is costing us.
We have so much terrible shit and it's going to get worse. He's offset every good thing he's done with a bad thing of higher magnitude. He not only has all the warning signs of a dictator but even his bullshit pandering is following in the footsteps of previous dictators. He's going to try to be one during his time in office, but the worst part is that getting rid of him would put pence in and he's even worse somehow. You're going to see everything go to shit and it might end up coming to a head in an internal war in this country, depending on how effective rational people are at reigning in his shit.

<Snipped quote by Multifarious>

Where'd you hear Spicer's been lying, and about what?


Dude EVERYONE working for trump is lying. That's part of the job working for him. I've yet to hear about Spicer but they're literally defending themselves using what they call "alternative facts," which should immediately tell you means bullshit.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Efficacy
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<Snipped quote by Meta>

I never said it matters if you agree or not.
The First amendment specifically protects against censorship as a result of someone's words.
No you're just genuinely stupid when it comes to politics.
It's part of their jobs to inform the public of scientific information. Pointing out that trump is lying about it is not a waste of their time. And no, the president is not the boss of all the government's sectors. We have three branches for a fucking reason.
"Test cases." None on the scale trump talks about. None that cover such a large area. You are vastly overestimating.
That's not even what a false dichotomy means. Neither is it a false dichotomy. It's an issue of priorities. If 80% of the country is dying of hunger and 20 percent is dying of disease, it's much more prudent to focus on the issue of hunger if you want to save people.
They really aren't. In order to even partially cover them, we'd have to cut funding to so many things that the country might genuinely fail in order to just keep our current rate of debt.
Pretty sure trump wants out of nafta. And everything would cost us in the end. A) You're really underestimating how much this would cost and B) You're not understanding how international affairs work. You're more likely to get a major war than anything else.
Trump is actively fighting freedom of press and is spewing nothing but his own bullshit propaganda every time he opens his mouth on a subject. Things were bad before with every tv news outlet in the U.S. being propaganda but trump takes it to an entirely different dimension.
There have been two. And "investing in the U.S." means nothing. They'd do that anyway to expand and they're doing it because they're getting shit out of it, which is costing us.
We have so much terrible shit and it's going to get worse. He's offset every good thing he's done with a bad thing of higher magnitude. He not only has all the warning signs of a dictator but even his bullshit pandering is following in the footsteps of previous dictators. He's going to try to be one during his time in office, but the worst part is that getting rid of him would put pence in and he's even worse somehow. You're going to see everything go to shit and it might end up coming to a head in an internal war in this country, depending on how effective rational people are at reigning in his shit.

<Snipped quote by Efficacy>

Dude EVERYONE working for trump is lying. That's part of the job working for him. I've yet to hear about Spicer but they're literally defending themselves using what they call "alternative facts," which should immediately tell you means bullshit.


Yeah, they're calling out the alternative facts that the MSM is using.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Efficacy
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<Snipped quote by souleaterfan320>

*barely jumps to the side in time* Oh, getting feisty already, are we? *whips out Vita and swipes in your direction, sending several small but powerful balls of energy at you; falls through a portal and lands opposite you on the edge of the arena*


@souleaterfan320
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<Snipped quote by Disdain>

@souleaterfan320


Getting there, m8.
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<Snipped quote by Efficacy>

Getting there, m8.


yoy
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Meta
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@DarkwolfX37

"No you're just genuinely stupid when it comes to politics. "

This is why your immature response and opinion is discarded.

I will just say that Trump has been in an odd teeter-totter-ish place with me recently. He gave me the impression initially that he didn't intend to actually make Mexico pay for it, which he then doubly reversed on. He then takes on Paul policy, which if you know me, I won't need to explain. Then that whole issue with his man Spicer lying about what is probably the most trivial and unimportant of things. Then he actually is doing work in his first moments in office... But some of it is just "meh", to not go into detail about it. I'm just bleh about it all right now.


I can only imagine that that was a miscommunication or information mistake. It makes so much less sense to assume that he's blatantly lying about it.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Meta
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Sorry.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Efficacy
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Sorry.


noh hwohrries
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by DarkwolfX37
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@DarkwolfX37

"No you're just genuinely stupid when it comes to politics. "

This is why your immature response and opinion is discarded.

<Snipped quote by Multifarious>

I can only imagine that that was a miscommunication or information mistake. It makes so much less sense to assume that he's blatantly lying about it.


It's based on you repeatedly showing it to be true in the past.
It's also incredibly hypocritical of you to support trump yet respond that way to a statement.
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<Snipped quote by Meta>

It's based on you repeatedly showing it to be true in the past.
It's also incredibly hypocritical of you to support trump yet respond that way to a statement.


Let me break that down. That assumes first that
You are correct about this, politically speaking. This brash statement cannot be made without that assumption.
Supporting Trump is automatically a negative statement as to my political understanding. This also connects to the previous assumption, that you are correct in this matter.
You know the extent of my political knowledge. We rarely speak politically, and no, it is not a matter of "from what you have said I already know." You don't.
That President Trump is a bad thing, also appealing to assumption one.
That there is evidence that my political knowledge is inferior, other than "because I said so."

In addition, the way you stated that already shuts down dissent; that's a logical fallacy. You can't just say that someone knows less than you as an actual point in argument. If you didn't state it as an argument, then it's ad hominem, another logical fallacy. It's also extremely arrogant to make the previous assumptions and just come out with "You're wrong, so it doesn't even matter."

And probably more than anything, it's just an unkind thing to say to someone who considers you a friend just because you disagree with them politically.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by DarkwolfX37
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<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

Yeah, they're calling out the alternative facts that the MSM is using.


No. KAC said that Spicer gave "alternative facts" when it was brought up that what he had said was a provable and known falsehood.

<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

Let me break that down. That assumes first that
You are correct about this, politically speaking. This brash statement cannot be made without that assumption.
Supporting Trump is automatically a negative statement as to my political understanding. This also connects to the previous assumption, that you are correct in this matter.
You know the extent of my political knowledge. We rarely speak politically, and no, it is not a matter of "from what you have said I already know." You don't.
That President Trump is a bad thing, also appealing to assumption one.
That there is evidence that my political knowledge is inferior, other than "because I said so."

In addition, the way you stated that already shuts down dissent; that's a logical fallacy. You can't just say that someone knows less than you as an actual point in argument. If you didn't state it as an argument, then it's ad hominem, another logical fallacy. It's also extremely arrogant to make the previous assumptions and just come out with "You're wrong, so it doesn't even matter."

And probably more than anything, it's just an unkind thing to say to someone who considers you a friend just because you disagree with them politically.


You're the one assuming here. You completely misunderstood my statements twice, which is likely my fault for the wording on the second one. So let me show you why.

I specifically said that you're stupid >when it comes to politics< and followed this up by >based on what you have repeatedly shown.< This was in direct response to you saying "Probably because we haven't spoken in a long time and you think that anything you disagree with is stupid." Your entire first paragraph is incorrect because it is entirely based on a false assumption about what I was saying. It had nothing to do with whether or not you support trump. I said this DIRECTLY BEFORE my statement.

Where did I say "From what you have said I already know?" I said it was "based on what you've repeatedly shown in the past that supports it." These are not the same thing. The first would mean it was based on the conversation at the time and that it was not a safe assumption but rather a total statement of objective fact.

Yes, you can. As I already said, it was a direct response to you trying to make an argument that, by the logic you use here, would be just an ad hominem. It was not used to try to shut down dissent, it was used to counter something you said.

Then you and I don't agree on what "stupid" means nor on the meaning it should have given the context. I not only stated it was specifically about a certain subject, changing the context from what it would be if I simply called stupid, full stop, but I also used it to mean the opposite of "knowledgeable" or "smart," rather than the opposite of "intelligent." It's not any less kind than saying "ignorant" other than the fact that "stupid" holds more negative connotations as a word, similar to using "retarded" in place of "handicapped."

The issue of hypocrisy is that you responded to being called stupid on a specific subject by saying it invalidates everything else said, yet you are a supporter of trump who does genuine ad hominems against everyone who disagrees with him, and makes ALL of those assumptions that you assumed I made every time he talks to or about anyone who doesn't agree with him completely. If you genuinely believed that it invalidates everything else, then nothing trump says would ever be valid in your mind, and you wouldn't support him. Therefor it's hypocritical.

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<Snipped quote by Disdain>

I didnt say I wasnt using them at all, just most of the fight. That particular attack you did last was very similar to another fight ive been in during my past, i asusmed it was similar.

*stands up straight*

Alright, then. Show me what youve got.


He never responded to the volley of shards.
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@DarkwolfX37

"No you're just genuinely stupid when it comes to politics. "

This is why your immature response and opinion is discarded.

<Snipped quote by Multifarious>

I can only imagine that that was a miscommunication or information mistake. It makes so much less sense to assume that he's blatantly lying about it.


Another reason why it is teetery.
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So... none of those posts appeared on my end until just now.
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