[OOC] Myriad Reality

[Meta]

<Snipped quote by Meta>

Yeah, problem there is he was made using a CYOA that goes a tad beyond those normal rules.

@Caldizar

Can you clarify why a CYOA modifies how he interacts with MR? MR is structured so that any origin idea can be fit in without modifying the source material. If there's a universe for everything, and clusters for multiverses, what use is it to go beyond that just because something is sourced from a CYOA instead of another piece of media or an OC?

[DELETED 93286j5]

Like if I use him, even if I weaken him to a lower level of ascension, the stipulations still exist. He'll still be from a different Verse, and fate will still be calling him back to it.

[whizzball1]

Now I should clarify that my arc for him isn't one of conflict necessarily, it's more him learning how to be a king. A good king preferably, and him learning how to confront and earn the royalty his ascension has given him. So if we really wanted we could simply have him not fight anyone. It's not like he can die, or if he does, suffer any real consequence from it after all.

@Caldizar

If he were inside his own Verse underneath the umbrella of Existence, perhaps we could have him go out into wider Existence, to sympathise with his people by understanding what it feels like for those who are not perfectly powerful, who don't have complete control. That's one suggestion, at least.

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

Can you clarify why a CYOA modifies how he interacts with MR? MR is structured so that any origin idea can be fit in without modifying the source material. If there's a universe for everything, and clusters for multiverses, what use is it to go beyond that just because something is sourced from a CYOA instead of another piece of media or an OC?

@Meta

Because this CYOA literally deals with beings, Living Gods, that are well beyond omniversal in scope. Quite simply, a Living God is beyond the Verse, though the time it takes to get to the Master Spark powers, the real broken powers, varies depending on what ascension you choose at the get-go.

[whizzball1]

<Snipped quote by Meta>

Because this CYOA literally deals with beings, Living Gods, that are well beyond omniversal in scope.

@Caldizar

One can scale up as many times as one wishes—omni, all, upper, transcendental. It can still fit inside of Existence, if it's within its own bubble. Like Meta said, that CYOA can fit in its own, sub-Existence omniverse. We have designed Existence so it is not subject to eternally increasing scale problems.

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

One can scale up as many times as one wishes—omni, all, upper, transcendental. It can still fit inside of Existence, if it's within its own bubble. Like Meta said, that CYOA can fit in its own, sub-Existence omniverse. We have designed Existence so it is not subject to eternally increasing scale problems.

@whizzball1

Except it quite literally can't. The way it's structured prevents that by nature, unless you want his Verse to be a sub-copy of sorts of Existence in it's entirety, though that doesn't explain how it's structure differs from Existence proper. Like, again, the person who wrote that CYOA essentially made a Myriad Reality of their own so to speak, in that it's scale and scope are similar, but more broken thanks to Living God builds. Well, that and it's focus is on Living Gods.

[Meta]

<Snipped quote by Meta>

Because this CYOA literally deals with beings, Living Gods, that are well beyond omniversal in scope. Quite simply, a Living God is beyond the Verse, though the time it takes to get to the Master Spark powers, the real broken powers, varies depending on what ascension you choose at the get-go.

@Caldizar

Which is why the scheme of clusters exists. I don't see why it doesn't reasonably fit within the standard model.

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

Which is why the scheme of clusters exists. I don't see why it doesn't reasonably fit within the standard model.

@Meta

Because a Living God is, again, beyond that by their very being. I mean reading through the CYOA itself and the lore it's author made on the structure of the Verse should make this quite apparent. The only times in which it seemingly differs is when you have a Master God in charge of a Verse, in which case I assume the Living God is equal in power, thus resulting in a stalemate. But Anarchic builds don't have those since they prioritize player interaction.

And yes, it is illogical to assume that because a Living God exists Existence would have been erased. If we assume it's literally just Zachary, well the question then becomes why would he destroy Existence? He's done nothing but avoid having to use his powers, and even in the times he does I've not envisioned them being massively destructive changes. The only large-scale manipulation I have in mind, as a matter of fact, was that he used that Subtle ability to erase all traces of his existence from his home Verse.

[whizzball1]

<Snipped quote by whizzball1>

Except it quite literally can't. The way it's structured prevents that by nature, unless you want his Verse to be a sub-copy of sorts of Existence in it's entirety, though that doesn't explain how it's structure differs from Existence proper. Like, again, the person who wrote that CYOA essentially made a Myriad Reality of their own so to speak, in that it's scale and scope are similar, but more broken thanks to Living God builds.

@Caldizar

Their Myriad Reality is not our Myriad Reality. Superimposing the CYOA on Existence is practically rewriting the rules of Existence with the CYOA's, which I don't think would be in good faith.

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

Their Myriad Reality is not our Myriad Reality. Superimposing the CYOA on Existence is practically rewriting the rules of Existence with the CYOA's, which I don't think would be in good faith.

@whizzball1

Which is why my alternative is not forcing a rewrite. Merely it's him hiding out here until he eventually decides, preferably through the actions of allies and friends, to return and face his destiny. To rise to the challenge of ruling his own Verse and its disputes rather than running from it all.

The only thing I'm doing is just leaving the statement that he has nigh-omnipotent power intact, as the author wrote it. Doesn't mean my arc plans to focus on it, because honestly that's a win state most of the time, and those are boring to write.

Plus there's only so many ways I can describe a power just forcing things to go his way before it gets repetitive. Like logically it would make sense, but also what enjoyment would I get from that really? Especially when my goal is to explore how an all-powerful being deals with responsibility?

[Meta]

<Snipped quote by Meta>

Because a Living God is, again, beyond that by their very being. I mean reading through the CYOA itself and the lore it's author made on the structure of the Verse should make this quite apparent. The only times in which it seemingly differs is when you have a Master God in charge of a Verse, in which case I assume the Living God is equal in power, thus resulting in a stalemate. But Anarchic builds don't have those since they prioritize player interaction.

And yes, it is illogical to assume that because a Living God exists Existence would have been erased. If we assume it's literally just Zachary, well the question then becomes why would he destroy Existence? He's done nothing but avoid having to use his powers, and even in the times he does I've not envisioned them being massively destructive changes. The only large-scale manipulation I have in mind, as a matter of fact, was that he used that Subtle ability to erase all traces of his existence from his home Verse.

@Caldizar

The disconnect for me is that I don't understand how the lore ends up overwriting the structure of MR. If a being is canonically multiversal, then they belong to a cluster, where there's already a multiverse. And beyond that is the broader multiverse that is Existence. And if a being is a god in their universe, then they have complete, absolute control over that universe. But I fail to see why that necessitates them being gods over all of Existence.

[whizzball1]

<Snipped quote by whizzball1>

Which is why my alternative is not forcing a rewrite. Merely it's him hiding out here until he eventually decides, preferably through the actions of allies and friends, to return and face his destiny. To rise to the challenge of ruling his own Verse and its disputes rather than running from it all.

The only thing I'm doing is just leaving the statement that he has nigh-omnipotent power intact, as the author wrote it. Doesn't mean my arc plans to focus on it, because honestly that's a win state most of the time, and those are boring to write.

@Caldizar

That plot structure—going to another place where destiny doesn't weigh on you for a time—will work perfectly fine if his Verse is within the context of Existence, and his omnipotence is only in the Verse (edited). How his omnipotence works is not a question for wider Existence, because in wider Existence nobody can possibly be omnipotent. It must be confined.

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

The disconnect for me is that I don't understand how the lore ends up overwriting the structure of MR. If a being is canonically multiversal, then they belong to a cluster, where there's already a multiverse. And beyond that is the broader multiverse that is Existence. And if a being is a god in their universe, then they have complete, absolute control over that universe. But I fail to see why that necessitates them being gods over all of Existence.

@Meta

Because at ascension they literally transcend all universes, multiverses, and omniverses. They have power over the thing that's above all that, the Verse, and if you read some of the abilities you can have in the CYOA, you'll see that they can go so far as to make their own Verses. Like I said, the Verse is Existence using different terminology, because the person who wrote it all essentially has the same structure for things, cosmologically speaking, that you do here. Just with deviations.

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

That plot structure—going to another place where destiny doesn't weigh on you for a time—will work perfectly fine if his Verse is within the context of Existence, and his omnipotence is only there. How his omnipotence works is not a question for wider Existence, because in wider Existence nobody can possibly be omnipotent. It must be confined.

@whizzball1

And you forget that nigh-omnipotence, no matter how powerful, is not omnipotence. I understand that unlimited power must be contained, but no matter how few weaknesses these abilities have, they are technically not unlimited. Granted, the line is blurred, though that's hardly my fault nor my doing.

[whizzball1]

<Snipped quote by whizzball1>

And you forget that nigh-omnipotence, no matter how powerful, is not omnipotence.

@Caldizar

I would appreciate if you did not use condescending phrases such as "and you forget". If I am also sounding too rigid in my responses, I apologise, but I am firm in my stance that a character whose powers are to be nigh-untouchable and nigh-unstoppable cannot have such powers to their full extent when interacting with wider Existence.

[Meta]

<Snipped quote by Meta>

Because at ascension they literally transcend all universes, multiverses, and omniverses. They have power over the thing that's above all that, the Verse, and if you read some of the abilities you can have in the CYOA, you'll see that they can go so far as to make their own Verses. Like I said, the Verse is Existence using different terminology, because the person who wrote it all essentially has the same structure for things, cosmologically speaking, that you do here. Just with deviations.

@Caldizar

My issue is that all of that works perfectly within the context of the Russian doll that is Existence. Why doesn't that all, included omnipotence, fit within the context of their greater dimension or cluster?

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

I would appreciate if you did not use condescending phrases such as "and you forget". If I am also sounding too rigid in my responses, I apologise, but I am firm in my stance that a character whose powers are to be nigh-untouchable and nigh-unstoppable cannot have such powers to their full extent when interacting with wider Existence.

@whizzball1

No, no, it's fine. I should be apologizing in this case, and I understand where all of you are coming from. Problem is it's kind of foolish to limit a god in the first place, and secondly it's hard to do it in this case when it's kind of vital to his whole character. Like he's running away from his responsibility as a nearly all-powerful being and choosing to live as normally as he can. Lastly, from the descriptions given in the thing I made him with, the wider expanse of Existence would once again be beneath a Living God. Even one of a lower ascension level thanks to all the free Spark Powers they can get.

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

My issue is that all of that works perfectly within the context of the Russian doll that is Existence. Why doesn't that all, included omnipotence, fit within the context of their greater dimension or cluster?

@Meta

Because they've reached a point beyond that scheme? And his Verse again doesn't exist within Existence but the Outside, a place that even in the CYOA is identical to the concept you present here.

The reason it can't fit within is because, well if we're being honest it wasn't made to, and because the entire focus of a Living God is above Existences, Verses, etc.

[whizzball1]

<Snipped quote by whizzball1>

No, no, it's fine. I should be apologizing in this case, and I understand where all of you are coming from. Problem is it's kind of foolish to limit a god in the first place, and secondly it's hard to do it in this case when it's kind of vital to his whole character. Like he's running away from his responsibility as a nearly all-powerful being and choosing to live as normally as he can. Lastly, from the descriptions given in the thing I made him with, the wider expanse of Existence would once again be beneath a Living God. Even one of a lower ascension level thanks to all the free Spark Powers they can get.

@Caldizar

Ascension levels, spark powers, and Living Gods are not part of Existence. They are part of this CYOA, which can only fit in Existence insofar as it does not encroach on Existence.

Why would it be foolish to limit a god outside of the realm of his control?

[Meta]

<Snipped quote by Meta>

Because they've reached a point beyond that scheme? And his Verse again doesn't exist within Existence but the Outside, a place that even in the CYOA is identical to the concept you present here.

The reason it can't fit within is because, well if we're being honest it wasn't made to, and because the entire focus of a Living God is above Existences, Verses, etc.

@Caldizar

But what have you used to determine that he's beyond that scheme? It seems like the only thing that would appear to be an issue is the idea of omnipotence, which is easily relegated to contextual in a dimension or cluster. I'm just struggling to see the incongruity with Existence as a system.