[OOC] Myriad Reality

[Meta]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

Ascension levels, spark powers, and Living Gods are not part of Existence. They are part of this CYOA, which can only fit in Existence insofar as it does not encroach on Existence.

Why would it be foolish to limit a god outside of the realm of his control?

@whizzball1

I'd argue that they are part of Existence in the context of a particular dimension.

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

Ascension levels, spark powers, and Living Gods are not part of Existence. They are part of this CYOA, which can only fit in Existence insofar as it does not encroach on Existence.

Why would it be foolish to limit a god outside of the realm of his control?

@whizzball1

As to the first, you are correct. And again, I attempted to rectify this by making a character whose main goal was not messing with the order of Existence but learning from it.

As for the second, come on.

Gods are gods, and if we take them for what they should be, limits should be the last thing on one's mind. The only reason mythology limits them is because humans needed a way to explain phenomena, and the only reason they are limited here is for balance. Both of which are understandable but sort of arbitrary because a god's a god. Not a man, not a mortal, and thus logically not possessing limits of any kind. At least in the loosest terms.

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by whizzball1>

I'd argue that they are part of Existence in the context of a particular dimension.

@Meta

Except they aren't, because the structure of Existence here is not a unique concept and many others have had their own spin on it. Living Gods fall under the CYOA author's spin largely, though again I did try to bring one I'd made in, in the most unobtrusive way possible.

As an example, he would have never used the full scope of his powers. At most he'd have omnikinesis, and there'd be struggles within that thanks to the Humanity option near the end of his sheet, and I'd try to keep any times he did use the full breadth of his abilities very rare. Like you'd have to push quite a bit to get him to redefine all of Existence to deny your own. And yeah, he could shrug of Ded's attacks, because it's within the scope of his abilities to do. Doesn't mean he has to meet Ded, and it doesn't mean that he has to kill him either. He could settle for just annoying him by not dying.

[whizzball1]

<Snipped quote by whizzball1>

As to the first, you are correct. And again, I attempted to rectify this by making a character whose main goal was not messing with the order of Existence but learning from it.

As for the second, come on.

Gods are gods, and if we take them for what they should be, limits should be the last thing on one's mind. The only reason mythology limits them is because humans needed a way to explain phenomena, and the only reason they are limited here is for balance. Both of which are understandable.

@Caldizar

The definition of god is something that is hotly debated. It has been on people's minds for thousands of years. Your own philosophical concept of a god is what you are bringing in here, or perhaps the concept of whoever wrote this CYOA. I will not debate the merits or demerits of your concept of a god, but argue that you must use a different definition than the one you are currently using to fit it in Myriad Reality, and whatever definition you decide on, it should allow that he has limited power in wider Existence, and that his sphere of influence is within Existence and underneath it.

If you want your being of absolute power to be absolutely safe in wider Existence, that's probably fine. But his power should be limited as it affects others.

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

The definition of god is something that is hotly debated. It has been on people's minds for thousands of years. Your own philosophical concept of a god is what you are bringing in here, or perhaps the concept of whoever wrote this CYOA. I will not debate the merits or demerits of your concept of a god, but argue that you must use a different definition than the one you are currently using to fit it in Myriad Reality, and whatever definition you decide on, it should allow that he has limited power in wider Existence, and that his sphere of influence is within Existence and underneath it.

If you want your being of absolute power to be absolutely safe in wider Existence, that's probably fine. But his power should be limited as it affects others.

@whizzball1

Again, I intend for him only to use the bare basics of Omnikinesis, and even then he can still be injured and hurt. The only times that might not apply are when there's actual consequences, though he could still decide to feel like a human does for the sake of maintaining some normalcy. As for what parts of Omnikinesis specifically, since time manipulation is really more of a detriment than a blessing, at most maybe creating things or a form of telekinesis. Those are powers I can reasonably manage and use in a way that doesn't break posting flow.

As for my definition, I use what the CYOA goes by since that's what he's based so heavily on, but I added the caveat that he isn't here to abuse his power. Again he's running from it, and my most recent post was really just giving him reason to go talk to Illings again, being motivated to get involved with things just a tiny bit.

[DELETED 93286j5]

Look, I get not everyone can play a god properly, but after several years and several thousand posts, I think I'm capable of doing that without stepping on anyone's toes. And yes you might mention the whole comment regarding Ded, which at most was a boast and a joke, as I doubt they'll ever cross paths. Even if they do, I feel like Zachary is the kind of guy to just annoy him by refusing to die, since he has equally dark and evil beings in his own Verse that he's dealt with before. Like, at this point he'd seem them the same way you do an edgy teenager.

Actually, you want an example of me playing a Living God in another roleplay that isn't scaled to their level?

Here, read all the Teo posts, since he's also a Living God I made: roleplayerguild.com/topics/184811-cro…

Now yes, is he played for laughs and is his avatar vastly scaled down in power? Indeed. But that doesn't mean he can't still decide to use his full might. The only reason he doesn't is because that's not how I want to play him.

[Meta]

Look, I get not everyone can play a god properly, but after several years and several thousand posts, I think I'm capable of doing that without stepping on anyone's toes. And yes you might mention the whole comment regarding Ded, which at most was a boast and a joke, as I doubt they'll ever cross paths. Even if they do, I feel like Zachary is the kind of guy to just annoy him by refusing to die, since he has equally dark and evil beings in his own Verse that he's dealt with before. Like, at this point he'd seem them the same way you do an edgy teenager.

@Caldizar

Your ability isn't my concern. I'm sure you're more than capable of making an OP character be fine, but I'm mostly interested in why there needs to be any exceptions to MR's structure, when to me, a CYOA works perfectly fine within the dimension system that we have in place. I'm not convinced that they're incompatible by nature, particularly because the system was designed to be compatible with everything.

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

Your ability isn't my concern. I'm sure you're more than capable of making an OP character be fine, but I'm mostly interested in why there needs to be any exceptions to MR's structure, when to me, a CYOA works perfectly fine within the dimension system that we have in place. I'm not convinced that they're incompatible by nature, particularly because the system was designed to be compatible with everything.

@Meta

Look, I just want him to be a Living God who came to hide out here because he got sick of dealing with everyone's shit in his own Existence, before realizing that the right thing to do is go back and rise to the occasion rather than run from it. That's literally all I wanted to do with him. Yes, I'm aware there's a million ways to tell that tale, but I've yet to tell it with a character like Zachary.

And again, lorewise I already had this talk with The World, and agreed that it was just another Plane using the terminology here. So still fitting the definition of a Verse without overwriting what's already been established.

[Meta]

<Snipped quote by Meta>

Look, I just want him to be a Living God who came to hide out here because he got sick of dealing with everyone's shit in his own Existence, before realizing that the right thing to do is go back and rise to the occasion rather than run from it. That's literally all I wanted to do with him. Yes, I'm aware there's a million ways to tell that tale, but I've yet to tell it with a character like Zachary.

And again, lorewise I already had this talk with The World, and agreed that it was just another Plane using the terminology here. So still fitting the definition of a Verse without overwriting what's already been established.

@Caldizar

A goal that works equally as well by making him the god of a cluster whose left his home for another.

Making it a Plane brings about a lot more complications seemingly arbitrarily.

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

A goal that works equally as well by making him the god of a cluster whose left his home for another.

Making it a Plane brings about a lot more complications seemingly arbitrarily.

@Meta

It really doesn't. I already explained how only he in his Plane knows of other Existences, and how all he's done is erase all evidence of his existence there before leaving, but whatever. I've repeated myself more than enough as it is. I really don't get what the problem is. The lore can work just because of how you all wrote it, and you have no problem with my ability to play an OP character, I've said using his powers to just win isn't my goal here...

What more do you fucking want?

Like sure, maybe a Living God is a tad problematic. Just say there are beings who can manipulate entire Planes existent within the Scale, and boom we have an in. I make Living Gods rare to the point of nigh-impossibility, save for Zachary, and we leave the rest up to speculation. Problem solved. Because he won't manipulate Existence, well save his own, and as for any other beings well they may or may not actually exist.

[Meta]

<Snipped quote by Meta>

It really doesn't. I already explained how only he in his Plane knows of other Existences, and how all he's done is erase all evidence of his existence there before leaving, but whatever. I've repeated myself more than enough as it is. I really don't get what the problem is. The lore can work just because of how you all wrote it, and you have no problem with my ability to play an OP character, I've said using his powers to just win isn't my goal here...

What more do you fucking want?

@Caldizar

Because the problem isn't your ability, his powers, or even his journey as a character. The problem is that it's bending MR's framework for no reason other than insistence that a CYOA justifies it. I can cut/paste each instance of Plane/Existence with 'cluster' in his story and it works just as well, so why bother going for an unnecessarily complex solution to a simple problem?

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

Because the problem isn't your ability, his powers, or even his journey as a character. The problem is that it's bending MR's framework for no reason other than insistence that a CYOA justifies it. I can cut/paste each instance of Plane/Existence with 'cluster' in his story and it works just as well, so why bother going for an unnecessarily complex solution to a simple problem?

@Meta

Look, I just want him to be a Living God who came to hide out here because he got sick of dealing with everyone's shit in his own Existence, before realizing that the right thing to do is go back and rise to the occasion rather than run from it. That's literally all I wanted to do with him. Yes, I'm aware there's a million ways to tell that tale, but I've yet to tell it with a character like Zachary.

Is this hard to comprehend? Actually here's a question, why if there is no issue, should I bother trying to alter what I want to play to fit the lore of a roleplay when a viable solution already exists?

Again, your own lore gives a solution, why won't you take it?

[The World]

Just popping in without reading anything since my last comment to say: Sorry for throwing in the idea of a Plane so flippantly. There's a lot of heated debate right now about whether or not that's a good idea so I wanted to apologize to everyone for starting that. Also I want to apologize to @Caldizar for everyone being dumb enough to just say things here while still working things out. Kinda like I'm doing right now. So sorry for all that.

[The World]

Popping in again because why not, again not reading anything, but it basically comes down to: Do you want him to be unique as the only Living God there is, period, ever, anywhere, in any Plane... or do you want him to be one of many? Because if it's the former, a Plane would theoretically work, though we'd need to put a lot of thought into how they work in general because we're not at the stage in MR where even thinking about Planes was necessary. But if it's the latter then Planes simply won't work because they're not infinite or close enough to be filled with countless Living Gods.

[DELETED 93286j5]

Popping in again because why not, again not reading anything, but it basically comes down to: Do you want him to be unique as the only Living God there is, period, ever, anywhere, in any Plane... or do you want him to be one of many? Because if it's the former, a Plane would theoretically work, though we'd need to put a lot of thought into how they work in general because we're not at the stage in MR where even thinking about Planes was necessary. But if it's the latter then Planes simply won't work because they're not infinite or close enough to be filled with countless Living Gods.

@The World

I mean his modes of transcendence imply other Living Gods, but they died so he could eventually come about. So they were not only weaker but could die, meaning that I could easily make him the very last one anywhere. And since he has Unbound and is a Versal Constant, no other versions of him exist. Granted they couldn't ascend anyway, but you get the idea. I can say that, for the purposes of this RP, he is the very last one and thus entirely unique. Or I could change the mode of transcendence, though that kind of messes with his character arc majorly.

Additionally, being the sum of several weaker gods means I can adjust how powerful they were accordingly. So maybe powerful in their respective areas, but not enough to say cross into another Plane and such. And Zachary, well you already know what I intend for him.

[Meta]

<Snipped quote by Meta>

<Snipped quote>

Is this hard to comprehend? Actually here's a question, why if there is no issue, should I bother trying to alter what I want to play to fit the lore of a roleplay when a viable solution already exists?

Again, your own lore gives a solution, why won't you take it?

@Caldizar

It's not hard to comprehend—it's the fact that him getting sick of his own dimension or cluster works equally well and avoids overengineering a problem for a characterization goal.

[DELETED 93286j5]

<Snipped quote by Caldizar>

It's not hard to comprehend—it's the fact that him getting sick of his own dimension or cluster works equally well and avoids overengineering a problem for a characterization goal.

@Meta

Not on the scale at which the source says he operates. Now I know some of that is changed or lost, for all roleplays really, but I once again want to play him how I described. If your lore doesn't prevent it, why not overengineer a bit since it is a workable idea?

Like, by putting him at a scale that he doesn't really belong in, you realize that just limits the freedom of creativity this roleplay touts right? And I'm trying to compromise here to boot, I've said how I'll play him, tried to find solutions, so you can't say I'm being entirely unreasonable.

[whizzball1]

@Caldizar
I feel like I understand what you’re going for with Zachary a little more, and I think it’s pretty cool—someone who has absolute power but goes some place beside (and not above) himself where he can’t be absolutely powerful and can figure himself out. Doing that with Planes sounds like it would be purer to the intention you have for your story.

It’s just that, to do that using Planes, although it might work for your idea, would require a lot of overengineering. Like, not a bit of overengineering, but a lot a lot. The World suggested it because he’s the one who came up with it 8 years—it’s at the forefront of his mind, in that sense.

But we work ideas, big and small, into MR organically, as we have for the last several years. Over time, I am sure we would naturally build up to a full theoretical understanding of other planes (only the idea of which we currently have). But they just aren’t anywhere near the stories we have right now. It would be untenable to make that jump now. It’s the kind of thing that we have to hash out, slow and steady.

As a group we have been going back and forth on this issue and can’t really come to a complete decision as a group on what would be best for MR itself. But our consensus is leaning against using Planes for the reasons stated above.

[Meta]

<Snipped quote by Meta>

Not on the scale at which the source says he operates. Now I know some of that is changed or lost, for all roleplays really, but I once again want to play him how I described. If your lore doesn't prevent it, why not overengineer a bit since it is a workable idea?

Like, by putting him at a scale that he doesn't really belong in, you realize that just limits the freedom of creativity this roleplay touts right? And I'm trying to compromise here to boot, I've said how I'll play him, tried to find solutions, so you can't say I'm being entirely unreasonable.

@Caldizar

Because it's not a limit to creative freedom—it's a solution to prevent a situation that gets arbitrarily more complex than it needs to be. I don't consider it limiting to say that there's an existing mechanic fits better than a fringe mechanic that isn't really used right now.

[DELETED 93286j5]

@Caldizar
I feel like I understand what you’re going for with Zachary a little more, and I think it’s pretty cool—someone who has absolute power but goes some place beside (and not above) himself where he can’t be absolutely powerful and can figure himself out. Doing that with Planes sounds like it would be purer to the intention you have for your story.

It’s just that, to do that using Planes, although it might work for your idea, would require a lot of overengineering. Like, not a bit of overengineering, but a lot a lot. The World suggested it because he’s the one who came up with it 8 years—it’s at the forefront of his mind, in that sense.

But we work ideas, big and small, into MR organically, as we have for the last several years. Over time, I am sure we would naturally build up to a full theoretical understanding of other planes (only the idea of which we currently have). But they just aren’t anywhere near the stories we have right now. It would be untenable to make that jump now. It’s the kind of thing that we have to hash out, slow and steady.

As a group we have been going back and forth on this issue and can’t really come to a complete decision as a group on what would be best for MR itself. But our consensus is leaning against using Planes for the reasons stated above.

@whizzball1

I understand, and since I am trying to work with you all here, if he doesn't work I'll drop the idea entirely. Which actually works out fairly easy given that Subtle power of his. But I won't exactly like having to do that. Especially not after having tried to find a way to make it work out.