[OOC] Myriad Reality

[Host]

whizzball1 said
ok

It's technically not a theory by definition.

[Heroic]

Host said
Then did Genesis lie?

No, no it didn't. But I don't take it literally. I mean, I have literally mentioned this before and there was no problem, and now that I suddenly find that I have something in common with my dad, it's a bad thing.

[Host]

Heroic said
No, no it didn't. But I don't take it literally. I mean, I have literally mentioned this before and there was no problem, and now that I suddenly find that I have something in common with my dad, it's a bad thing.

Never to us. And if it was metaphorical, then why did God say "From dust you were created, to dust you will return?" We don't devolve after we die, we turn to dust.

[whizzball1]

Host said
It's technically not a theory by definition.

Yeah, I remember recently learning that a theory was, in a more formal (or informal?) definition, a proven set of facts that described how something worked, while a law described why. Thesis could be more accurately applied to evolution, and evolutionists would call creation a thesis too (but we have the advantage of knowing it's not a thesis, but a theory! :D).

[Host]

whizzball1 said
Yeah, I remember recently learning that a theory was, in a more formal (or informal?) definition, a proven set of facts that described how something worked, while a law described why. Thesis could be more accurately applied to evolution, and evolutionists would call creation a thesis too (but we have the advantage of knowing it's not a thesis, but a theory! :D).

Well, a hypothesis is baseless, while a theory is not. That's why evolution is a hypothesis.

[whizzball1]

Heroic said
No, no it didn't. But I don't take it literally. I mean, I have literally mentioned this before and there was no problem, and now that I suddenly find that I have something in common with my dad, it's a bad thing.

Genesis is specifically meant to be taken literally. Sven, one of the biggest problems with believing in Evolution is that you instantly believe that Jesus died for no reason, death was not our fault, and it in fact was part of God's clearly spoken "very good" creation. If we say that Evolution is true and works in tandem with the Bible and that Genesis is not literal means that death was always here, and was not the fault of sin, and therefore Jesus was atoning for nothing. Jesus becomes meaningless, morality a silly idea if you really look at this worldview. And would God allow death to be part of his very good creation? If he used evolution to make the very good creation, then he would have to use death, and thus it would not be very good.

[whizzball1]

Host said
Well, a hypothesis is baseless, while a theory is not. That's why evolution is a hypothesis.

that works too

[Heroic]

Host said
Never to us. And if it was metaphorical, then why did God say "From dust you were created, to dust you will return?" We don't devolve after we die, we turn to dust.

I have literally posted this before in OOC, word gor word: "I'm not saying you have to believe what I believe, but I am a theistic evolutionist..." And from the particles created from stardust, for the beginning of humankind, and death + human decay.

[Host]

whizzball1 said
Genesis is specifically meant to be taken literally. Sven, one of the biggest problems with believing in Evolution is that you instantly believe that Jesus died for no reason, death was not our fault, and it in fact was part of God's clearly spoken "very good" creation. If we say that Evolution is true and works in tandem with the Bible and that Genesis is not literal means that death was always here, and was not the fault of sin, and therefore Jesus was atoning for nothing. Jesus becomes meaningless, morality a silly idea if you really look at this worldview. And would God allow death to be part of his very good creation? If he used evolution to make the very good creation, then he would have to use death, and thus it would not be very good.

In addition, we have souls while animals don't. Where would be the point that God said "Okay, give these guys souls and spirits?"

[Host]

Heroic said
I have literally posted this before in OOC, word gor word: "I'm not saying you have to believe what I believe, but I am a theistic evolutionist..." And from the particles created from stardust, for the beginning of humankind, and death + human decay.

Name one reason to believe that Genesis should be taken metaphorically. Why don't we take everything as a metaphor, like the Gospels? Maybe Jesus was a metaphor for human goodness, so if you do what you believe is good, you gain salvation.

[whizzball1]

Heroic said
I have literally posted this before in OOC, word gor word: "I'm not saying you have to believe what I believe, but I am a theistic evolutionist..." And from the particles created from stardust, for the beginning of humankind, and death + human decay.

I don't remember that at all. o3o Maybe you said that while I was off of the RP.

[whizzball1]

Host said
Name one reason to believe that Genesis should be taken metaphorically. Why don't we take everything as a metaphor, like the Gospels? Maybe Jesus was a metaphor for human goodness, so if you do what you believe is good, you gain salvation.

that kind of sounds condescending and jerky [insert unsure face here ooh this works ]

[Host]

whizzball1 said
that kind of sounds condescending and jerky [insert unsure face here ooh this works ]

Not meant to be, but it gets the point across. You all know that I'm very cut and dry when I'm serious.

[whizzball1]

Host said
Not meant to be, but it gets the point across. You all know that I'm very cut and dry when I'm serious.

Okay then.

[Heroic]

whizzball1 said
Genesis is specifically meant to be taken literally. Sven, one of the biggest problems with believing in Evolution is that you instantly believe that Jesus died for no reason, death was not our fault, and it in fact was part of God's clearly spoken "very good" creation. If we say that Evolution is true and works in tandem with the Bible and that Genesis is not literal means that death was always here, and was not the fault of sin, and therefore Jesus was atoning for nothing. Jesus becomes meaningless, morality a silly idea if you really look at this worldview. And would God allow death to be part of his very good creation? If he used evolution to make the very good creation, then he would have to use death, and thus it would not be very good.

Now, who said you couldn't believe that the gift of immortality wasn't granted to the first intelligent humans (Adam and Eve)? Who said you couldn't believe that they soiled their gift of immortality with their foolishness? And the rest just falls in line.

Host said
Name one reason to believe that Genesis should be taken metaphorically. Why don't we take everything as a metaphor, like the Gospels? Maybe Jesus was a metaphor for human goodness, so if you do what you believe is good, you gain salvation.

Name one reason that you have to take it literally. And Jesus was not a metaphor because there are historical texts that confirm his existence.

[Host]

Heroic said
Now, who said you couldn't believe that the gift of immortality wasn't granted to the first intelligent humans (Adam and Eve)? Who said you couldn't believe that they soiled their gift of immortality with their foolishness? And the rest just falls in line.Name one reason that you have to take it literally. And Jesus was not a metaphor because there are historical texts that confirm his existence.

Jesus' existence as Christ. And the reason I have to believe it is because God's word tells us so! Why even bother being a Christian if everything in it is supposed to be something else??

[Host]

This is a copy and paste, but gets the idea.

Not only can we take the Bible literally, but we must take the Bible literally. This is the only way to determine what God really is trying to communicate to us. When we read any piece of literature, but especially the Bible, we must determine what the author intended to communicate. Many today will read a verse or passage of Scripture and then give their own definitions to the words, phrases, or paragraphs, ignoring the context and author’s intent. But this is not what God intended, which is why God tells us to correctly handle the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15).

One reason we should take the Bible literally is because the Lord Jesus Christ took it literally. Whenever the Lord Jesus quoted from the Old Testament, it was always clear that He believed in its literal interpretation. As an example, when Jesus was tempted by Satan in Luke 4, He answered by quoting the Old Testament. If God’s commands in Deuteronomy 8:3, 6:13, and 6:16 were not literal, Jesus would not have used them and they would have been powerless to stop Satan’s mouth, which they certainly did.

The disciples also took the commands of Christ (which are part of the Bible) literally. Jesus commanded the disciples to go and make more disciples in Matthew 28:19-20. In Acts 2 and following, we find that the disciples took Jesus' command literally and went throughout the known world of that time preaching the gospel of Christ and telling them to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31). Just as the disciples took Jesus’ words literally, so must we. How else can we be sure of our salvation if we do not believe Him when He says He came to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10), pay the penalty for our sin (Matthew 26:28), and provide eternal life (John 6:54)?

Although we take the Bible literally, there are still figures of speech within its pages. An example of a figure of speech would be that if someone said "it is raining cats and dogs outside," you would know that they did not really mean that cats and dogs were falling from the sky. They would mean it is raining really hard. There are figures of speech in the Bible which are not to be taken literally, but those are obvious. (See Psalm 17:8 for example.)

Finally, when we make ourselves the final arbiters of which parts of the Bible are to be interpreted literally, we elevate ourselves above God. Who is to say, then, that one person’s interpretation of a biblical event or truth is any more or less valid than another’s? The confusion and distortions that would inevitably result from such a system would essentially render the Scriptures null and void. The Bible is God’s Word to us and He meant it to be believed—literally and completely.

[Heroic]

Host said
Jesus' existence as Christ. And the reason I have to believe it is because God's word tells us so! Why even bother being a Christian if everything in it is supposed to be something else??

It tells you in the Bible to take every word in the Bible literally, and in no other way? And that basically implies that since I don't take the Bible literally, I should abandon my relationship with Jesus and start living in sin the way I used to so I can go to Hell.

[Host]

Heroic said
It tells you in the Bible to take every word in the Bible literally, and in no other way? And that basically implies that since I don't take the Bible literally, I should abandon my relationship with Jesus and start living in sin the way I used to so I can go to Hell.

If you can take a whole book as a metaphor, you have no reason to believe Jesus died for our sins, or that anyone is going to Hell. Why even believe in sin if it's all just a metaphor? Christianity is different than every other religion because it's meant to be taken literally and as absolute truth!

[whizzball1]

Heroic said
Now, who said you couldn't believe that the gift of immortality wasn't granted to the first intelligent humans (Adam and Eve)? Who said you couldn't believe that they soiled their gift of immortality with their foolishness? And the rest just falls in line.Name one reason that you have to take it literally. And Jesus was not a metaphor because there are historical texts that confirm his existence.

Death of the animals. All death, according to Genesis, came as a result of Adam and Eve's sin. If they evolved from animals, then those animals had died before Adam and Eve messed up.

Heroic said
It tells you in the Bible to take every word in the Bible literally, and in no other way? And that basically implies that since I don't take the Bible literally, I should abandon my relationship with Jesus and start living in sin the way I used to so I can go to Hell.

There's a careful examination taken to figure out how each book of the Bible was meant. The wording of Genesis already puts it into the needed criteria for a literal book of the Bible, and numerous other factors come into place that confirm this classification. I read a lot about this when I was witnessing to someone about the literal wording of Genesis a while back.