[OOC] Myriad Reality

[whizzball1]

Host said
If you can take a whole book as a metaphor, you have no reason to believe Jesus died for our sins, or that anyone is going to Hell. Why even believe in sin if it's all just a metaphor? Christianity is different than every other religion because it's meant to be taken literally and as absolute truth!

Also, David, check your inbox, I have a question about plot.

[Host]

whizzball1 said
Death of the animals. All death, according to Genesis, came as a result of Adam and Eve's sin. If they evolved from animals, then those animals had died before Adam and Eve messed up.There's a careful examination taken to figure out how each book of the Bible was meant. The wording of Genesis already puts it into the needed criteria for a literal book of the Bible, and numerous other factors come into place that confirm this classification. I read a lot about this when I was witnessing to someone about the literal wording of Genesis a while back.

No book is totally metaphoric, but some have aspects or pieces that are, but the Bible makes it clear when something represents something else.

[whizzball1]

Host said
If you can take a whole book as a metaphor, you have no reason to believe Jesus died for our sins, or that anyone is going to Hell. Why even believe in sin if it's all just a metaphor? Christianity is different than every other religion because it's meant to be taken literally and as absolute truth!

We of course do have figurative speech in places like the Psalms. It's not all absolutely literal, but we have criteria that uses the rest of the Bible to determine what a certain part of the Bible is, such that we don't elevate ourselves above God in interpretation.

[Host]

whizzball1 said
We of course do have figurative speech in places like the Psalms. It's not all absolutely literal, but we have criteria that uses the rest of the Bible to determine what a certain part of the Bible is, such that we don't elevate ourselves above God in interpretation.

I'm a literalist; I believe everything as literal unless given reason otherwise.

[Heroic]

Host said
This is a copy and paste, but gets the idea.Not only can we take the Bible literally, but we must take the Bible literally. This is the only way to determine what God really is trying to communicate to us. When we read any piece of literature, but especially the Bible, we must determine what the author intended to communicate. Many today will read a verse or passage of Scripture and then give their own definitions to the words, phrases, or paragraphs, ignoring the context and author’s intent. But this is not what God intended, which is why God tells us to correctly handle the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15).One reason we should take the Bible literally is because the Lord Jesus Christ took it literally. Whenever the Lord Jesus quoted from the Old Testament, it was always clear that He believed in its literal interpretation. As an example, when Jesus was tempted by Satan in Luke 4, He answered by quoting the Old Testament. If God’s commands in Deuteronomy 8:3, 6:13, and 6:16 were not literal, Jesus would not have used them and they would have been powerless to stop Satan’s mouth, which they certainly did.The disciples also took the commands of Christ (which are part of the Bible) literally. Jesus commanded the disciples to go and make more disciples in Matthew 28:19-20. In Acts 2 and following, we find that the disciples took Jesus' command literally and went throughout the known world of that time preaching the gospel of Christ and telling them to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31). Just as the disciples took Jesus’ words literally, so must we. How else can we be sure of our salvation if we do not believe Him when He says He came to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10), pay the penalty for our sin (Matthew 26:28), and provide eternal life (John 6:54)?Although we take the Bible literally, there are still figures of speech within its pages. An example of a figure of speech would be that if someone said "it is raining cats and dogs outside," you would know that they did not really mean that cats and dogs were falling from the sky. They would mean it is raining really hard. There are figures of speech in the Bible which are not to be taken literally, but those are obvious. (See Psalm 17:8 for example.)Finally, when we make ourselves the final arbiters of which parts of the Bible are to be interpreted literally, we elevate ourselves above God. Who is to say, then, that one person’s interpretation of a biblical event or truth is any more or less valid than another’s? The confusion and distortions that would inevitably result from such a system would essentially render the Scriptures null and void. The Bible is God’s Word to us and He meant it to be believed—literally and completely.

I like this argument you just made, David. Although, I assume you just googled "Should you take the Bible literally?" in which case I encourage you to click on the top link and read that for reasons I'm about to explain. First off, understand this... I have not read most of the Bible yet! I'm only still on Exodus, and I'm still a new Christian. Now that that's out of the way, there are verses like the one in the article I told you to look at that wouldn't make any sense whatsoever to be taken literally.

[Heroic]

Host said
I'm a literalist; I believe everything as literal unless given reason otherwise.

No one said you can't take parts of the Bible as literal, an some as metaphorical.

[Host]

Heroic said
I like this argument you just made, David. Although, I assume you just googled "Should you take the Bible literally?" in which case I encourage you to click on the top link and read that for reasons I'm about to explain. First off, understand this... I have read most of the Bible yet! I'm only still on Exodus, and I'm still a new Christian. Now that that's out of the way, there are verses like the one in the article I told you to look at that wouldn't make any sense whatsoever to be taken literally.

Uh, yeah. I said it was just a copy and paste. I clicked the first link, it looked good, and I used it.

Heroic said
No one said you can't take parts of the Bible as literal, an some as metaphorical.

I don't really do that. I take the whole as literal and pieces as metaphorical. Parables are metaphors for messages, figures in Revelations and Daniel prophecies are metaphors for things to come.

[Heroic]

Host said
Uh, yeah. I said it was just a copy and paste. I clicked the first link, it looked good, and I used it. I don't really do that. I take the whole as literal and pieces as metaphorical. Parables are metaphors for messages, figures in Revelations and Daniel prophecies are metaphors for things to come.

Well then I guess we didn't have the same first link.
http://www.gci.org/bible/literally

[whizzball1]

Heroic said
I like this argument you just made, David. Although, I assume you just googled "Should you take the Bible literally?" in which case I encourage you to click on the top link and read that for reasons I'm about to explain. First off, understand this... I have read most of the Bible yet! I'm only still on Exodus, and I'm still a new Christian. Now that that's out of the way, there are verses like the one in the article I told you to look at that wouldn't make any sense whatsoever to be taken literally.

Well then, I'll pull out a few Bible verses to help you with this. I completely forgot about that.
First of all, we know that in each of the six days, God said that "The Evening and the Morning were the nth day."
A quote of Jesus in Mark 10:6: "But from the beginning of the creation, God 'made them male and female'". See how Jesus says "beginning of the creation"? This shows that God created Adam and Eve very close to the beginning of the creation, not billions of years after he created the universe.

John 5:45–47: “Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
We know for certain that Moses wrote Genesis. Jesus wording here shows that we're meant to take Moses' words literally. Therefore, we are to take Genesis literally. Even if Moses didn't write Genesis, we have this:

Exodus 20:11: “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.”
Some, in Genesis, use the argument that day could mean multiple things. However, in this verse, the Hebrew word specifically applied to 24-hour days. So, since we are to believe the words of Moses, and Moses said that the universe was created in six literal days, then we show that Jesus himself endorsed the 6 literal day view.

[Host]

Heroic said
Well then I guess we didn't have the same first link.

But that reinforces my point. Literal until reason to take metaphorical. Why do you take Genesis metaphorically?

[Heroic]

Host said
But that reinforces my point. Literal until reason to take metaphorical. Why do you take Genesis metaphorically?

Because I'm not a literalist and it made the most sense for me to do so.

whizzball1 said
Well then, I'll pull out a few Bible verses to help you with this. I completely forgot about that.First of all, we know that in each of the six days, God said that "The Evening and the Morning were the nth day."A quote of Jesus in Mark 10:6: "But from the beginning of the creation, God 'made them male and female'". See how Jesus says "beginning of the creation"? This shows that God created Adam and Eve very close to the beginning of the creation, not billions of years after he created the universe.John 5:45–47: “Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”We know for certain that Moses wrote Genesis. Jesus wording here shows that we're meant to take Moses' words literally. Therefore, we are to take Genesis literally. Even if Moses didn't write Genesis, we have this:Exodus 20:11: “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.”Some, in Genesis, use the argument that day could mean multiple things. However, in this verse, the Hebrew word specifically applied to 24-hour days. So, since we are to believe the words of Moses, and Moses said that the universe was created in six literal days, then we show that Jesus himself endorsed the 6 literal day view.

That first one could apply to primitive, hypothetical humans before Adam and Eve. Because it was Jesus in the second one, I cannot deny anything from that at all. And can you go into more detail on how the Hebrew word for day means literal, consecutive, back-to-back days?

[Host]

Heroic said
Because I'm not a literalist and it made the most sense for me to do so.That first one could apply to primitive, hypothetical humans before Adam and Eve. Because it was Heaus in the second one, I cannot deny anything from that at all. And can you go into more detail on how the Hebrew word for day means literal, consecutive, back-to-back days?

The Hebrew word in Scripture means "A period of 24 hours."

How does it make the most sense?

[whizzball1]

Heroic said
Because I'm not a literalist and it made the most sense for me to do so.That first one could apply to primitive, hypothetical humans before Adam and Eve. Because it was Heaus in the second one, I cannot deny anything from that at all. And can you go into more detail on how the Hebrew word for day means literal, consecutive, back-to-back days?

1. Jesus is talking about Adam and Eve.
3. The Hebrew word for Day, when used with a number, always means a literal day, throughout the Bible and in other Hebrew texts.

Also, in Matthew 19:3-6 and Mark 10:3-9, Jesus describes Adam and Eve as the first married couple. We can also understand from Genesis that Adam and Eve were the first humans to reproduce. Jesus says that Abel was the first murder. I'm virtually completely sure that if there were humans before Adam and Eve, there would be murder.

I'll be writing up another set of verses that show that Jesus specifically shows that creation took place over six days, but it might be rather long, so I'll do it in another post and still respond here.

[Heroic]

Host said
The Hebrew word in Scripture means "A period of 24 hours."How does it make the most sense?

I saw no reason to not believe both.

[Host]

Heroic said
I saw no reason to not believe both.

If a reason is all you're looking for, evolution is scientifically impossible. Why do you think that God caused nonlife to come together through billions of years, and then change over time into what we have today when it would be so much more miraculous to create humans as Genesis accounts?

[Heroic]

whizzball1 said
1. Jesus is talking about Adam and Eve.3. The Hebrew word for Day, when used with a number, always means a literal day, throughout the Bible and in other Hebrew texts.Also, in Matthew 19:3-6 and Mark 10:3-9, Jesus describes Adam and Eve as the first married couple. We can also understand from Genesis that Adam and Eve were the first humans to reproduce. Jesus says that Abel was the first murder. I'm virtually completely sure that if there were humans before Adam and Eve, there would be murder.I'll be writing up another set of verses that show that Jesus specifically shows that creation took place over six days, but it might be rather long, so I'll do it in another post and still respond here.

But I don't need anymore proof. You have me. I just want you to say that it means consecutive, because literal days does not imply that the days took place one right after the other.

[whizzball1]

Heroic said
But I don't need anymore proof. You have me. I just want you to say that it means consecutive, because literal days does not imply that the days took place one right after the other.

Six consecutive literal days. So you now believe that God (more specifically Jesus, as in the the post I'm writing) created everything in six days, without using Evolution?

[Heroic]

Host said
If a reason is all you're looking for, evolution is scientifically impossible. Why do you think that God caused nonlife to come together through billions of years, and then change over time into what we have today when it would be so much more miraculous to create humans as Genesis accounts?

To set everything up to have everything, i.e. The world turning its back on him, to happen when he planned it to. Though I guess I'll need to rethink everything now. Including the fact that I now have nothing in common with my dad again...

[Heroic]

whizzball1 said
Six consecutive literal days. So you now believe that God (more specifically Jesus, as in the the post I'm writing) created everything in six days, without using Evolution?

Yeah...

[whizzball1]

Heroic said
To set everything up to have everything, i.e. The world turning its back on him, to happen when he planned it to. Though I guess I'll need to rethink everything now. Including the fact that I now have nothing in common with my dad again...

I'm sure you have something. Pray about it, God will show you something in common and will help you to bond. God doesn't want us to be distant from our parents, or vice versa, and as such, He will help you. I know it. Also, even though I'm not going to post my (now very long) argument, do note that it does show that all of Genesis is literal. If you need any help at all with thinking about any scientific ramifications, we'll be here to help you. I don't want you to go through the Christian life alone, and I know David doesn't either.