Quite looking forward to when you get the OOC up :) Been working on all my characters a bit - None of them have fully completed backgrounds yet xD Dae is probably closest when it comes to knowing what I actually want to write. But yup it will feel all official when the OOC is up
Altaea: The Age of Revolution -=]- Late Middle Ages - Early Renaissance Fantasy Story -[=- Page 5
- Advanced
FernStone One Again Addicted to Pepsi Max
Member
Seen
0-24 hrs ago
OP
GourmetItalia
Member
Seen
9 mos ago
Don't worry, Fern, that OOC's in the making so just keep a sword and a little extra gunpowder handy because we'll be launching soon 8)
FernStone One Again Addicted to Pepsi Max
Member
Seen
0-24 hrs ago
Awesome! I'll make sure I have quite the stock for when we start ;) Very excited... So much so I was considering drawing character pictures. Then I remembered my inability to draw faces, and to draw realistic pictures
FernStone One Again Addicted to Pepsi Max
Member
Seen
0-24 hrs ago
It certainly does :) I try but end up getting frustrated xD
Yay! Very exciting
Yay! Very exciting
Nevis The Aether Swordsman
Member
Seen
2 yrs ago
Is this still accepting players?
As you invited in the op, a few points.
As soon as I started reading about the 'Knights of Melita' I started wondering 'is this a Military Order of Malta reference?' XD End of that section, confirmed.
Also, the technological level you keep describing (and showing pictures of) actually isn't Medieval or Middle Age,or even early Renaissance-it's late Renaissance and early Early Modern period- the late 1400s though the first half of the 1500s. Full-plate armor reached it's apex (and the designs that you keep showing) well or even late into the Renaissance and during the Early Modern Period. The presence of firearms to the indicated degree, especially, points to the Early Modern Period. In our world-firearms hit a critical mass starting at about the 1570s where they began making full-plate armor, pikes, halberds and so on obsolete at a much faster rate than even before. As this it taking place a little before that, I think something like 1530-1560 is roughly where this setting is in terms of technology.
Rapiers are also specifically not primarily a battlefield weapon-they are specifically designed for dueling (and specifically for unarmed combat at that, except for things like the tuck/estoc) and were uncommon on an open battlefield. At this technological level, arming swords (the vanilla Medieval-setting one-handed double-edged cruciform sword) and side swords (can be either an arming sword with a rapier hilt or a true hybrid of the two-never especially popular), though longswords would be in decline (though not greatswords like zweihanders; this is actually when they reached their greatest use!).
Also, a slight misuse of the word-the Renaissance was not about people's rights and equality, especially not class; that's more from the French Revolution aspect. The Renaissance is marked as a return to and flourishing of the 'fine arts', such as music, painting and especially literature and education, and was particularly characterized by a fascination with the self and self-importance (as compared to the importance of others and society as a whole, out things, from before).
All that said, that this is well-researched really shows, and I'm quite pleased to see it (hence me being interested ^^).
Will you please explain in more detail about the magic that exists and what is allowed for player characters to have?
Also, is there any lands and/or nations that parallel western and northern Europe, such as France, Spain, Germany and England?
As you invited in the op, a few points.
As soon as I started reading about the 'Knights of Melita' I started wondering 'is this a Military Order of Malta reference?' XD End of that section, confirmed.
Also, the technological level you keep describing (and showing pictures of) actually isn't Medieval or Middle Age,or even early Renaissance-it's late Renaissance and early Early Modern period- the late 1400s though the first half of the 1500s. Full-plate armor reached it's apex (and the designs that you keep showing) well or even late into the Renaissance and during the Early Modern Period. The presence of firearms to the indicated degree, especially, points to the Early Modern Period. In our world-firearms hit a critical mass starting at about the 1570s where they began making full-plate armor, pikes, halberds and so on obsolete at a much faster rate than even before. As this it taking place a little before that, I think something like 1530-1560 is roughly where this setting is in terms of technology.
Rapiers are also specifically not primarily a battlefield weapon-they are specifically designed for dueling (and specifically for unarmed combat at that, except for things like the tuck/estoc) and were uncommon on an open battlefield. At this technological level, arming swords (the vanilla Medieval-setting one-handed double-edged cruciform sword) and side swords (can be either an arming sword with a rapier hilt or a true hybrid of the two-never especially popular), though longswords would be in decline (though not greatswords like zweihanders; this is actually when they reached their greatest use!).
Also, a slight misuse of the word-the Renaissance was not about people's rights and equality, especially not class; that's more from the French Revolution aspect. The Renaissance is marked as a return to and flourishing of the 'fine arts', such as music, painting and especially literature and education, and was particularly characterized by a fascination with the self and self-importance (as compared to the importance of others and society as a whole, out things, from before).
All that said, that this is well-researched really shows, and I'm quite pleased to see it (hence me being interested ^^).
Will you please explain in more detail about the magic that exists and what is allowed for player characters to have?
Also, is there any lands and/or nations that parallel western and northern Europe, such as France, Spain, Germany and England?
OP
GourmetItalia
Member
Seen
9 mos ago
@ Nevis
Yes, we are still accepting more writers and as the saying goes, the more merrier!
Regarding the historical tidbits, I'm glad you're sweeping the story's historical inspirations and I commend you for calling me out on potential inconsistencies, but just note that for storytelling purposes, we aren't necessarily following an exact chronological replica, but taking a bit of this and that for world and story-building purposes. I did state before that this is a very technologically advanced Late Middle Ages so ... socially and living-wise, most North and Southwest Carcassonians are still confined to feudalism and certain living situations. The existing pictures are really just very aesthetically appealing images that could allow other writers to get a rough sense of what to expect.
Take what I say with a grain of salt, because I'd like to share where I come from because I do what know what you're referring to. Timeline and technologically, you are correct in the sense that some of Altaea's existing technologies can be categorized between the late 1400s and early 1500s, but to if you look at when the Late Middle Ages ends; historians generally agree that it spanned all the way to the 1500s while the early Renaissance is said to have begun during the 14th centuries. The lines are somewhat blurred in terms of categorizing what culminated into the arts, cultural expansions, literature, education, sciences, wide-spread media, and other major disciplines. Multiple Renaissances also occurred in certain areas of Europe at later parts of the 15th century, most notably France, England, the Netherlands, and Poland. I left mention of the Renaissance a bit vague to give breathing room to emerging ideas, philosophies, scientific discoveries, and pioneering architectural advancements.
This brings me to my next point in that Valania is heavily based on Ancien Regime France and the Kingdom Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, better known as the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Since the Renaissance is said to have likely occurred in France and Poland within the late 14th century, that does make perfect sense to place the beginning of certain advancements, held back by Sarife and Valania's aristocratic authority and largely feudal systems. I did borrow several inspirations from the French Revolution so really I'm glad you caught that. My intention was and still is to combine certain elements from the Renaissance, Age of Enlightment, and the Modern Era to craft a masterful tale with other writers so we won't necessarily strictly confine our creativity.
On the schpiel about the Renaissance, it wasn't just an expansion in the arts, literature, or self-discovery. You could certainly argue that during the early Renaissance, the Bubonic Plague actually culminated a transition into a sort of Late Middle Ages Industrial Revolution due to largely reduced populace, large surplus wealth left to surviving Europeans, advent of early manufacturing (paper production from discarded clothing, mechanical engineering for crudely automated organs or clock systems, and greater metal production).
Coupling this is the spread of Christianity and pilgrimages is also said to have set wheels for early predecessor for organized companies and wide-scale urbanization due to increased demands for lodging, food and beverage vendors, attractions, and expansions within various commercial sectors.
Regarding Firearms, they were really developed as a cheaper and more powerful alternative to crossbows or ranged weapons, in that they required less training to punch through armor. Firearms also really weren't fully optimized until recently and even then, modern rifles aren't in some respects 100% accurate. Muskets certainly did make pike, halberds, and certain close quarters weapons obsolete, but the accuracy left much to be desired. In fact, to maximize muzzle loading firearms, soldiers of the Renaissance and Early Modern Age clustered firearm wielding infantry together for synchronized barrages.
Arquebuses, Wheel locks, and other firearms certainly weren't entirely reliable or accurate and in some instances even dangerous to operate. I will go on to argue that during the late 17th and early 18th century, the Swedish Carolean army's arms combinations with pikes, swords, and muskets produced devastating results against their enemies. Even at 100 yards, muskets were quite inaccurate at which point, only rifles, mortars, rockets, or cannons could snipe or obliterate the intended targets. The Swedish Caroleans knew this and did not open fire with their 17th and 18th century weapons until they came within 50 meters, at which case, they unleashed one massive firearm barrage before charging at full force. Suffice to say, they killed a lot of enemy soldiers before exhausting wars against the Poles, Danes, and the Russians irreversibly shattered their military power.
This is all true, but regarding Rapiers; the term Rapier was referred to various weapon types, some of which did not necessarily refer to the unarmored, single target types we know about today. Certainly, existing longswords, two-handed weapons, or zweihanders will have their uses in certain parts of Valania and Sarife, but between Pikelines and Static Shield Walls with supporting archer and firearm elements, their uses are deadly in that they are effective for assaulting shock troopers 8).
Existing magic is actually very weak in that wielders and their abilities are very rare and few and far in between. You'll have to PM me to know what magic exists!
Regarding Western European parallels, Valania is probably one of the only known Western influenced nations within Carcassonne and draws heavy inspiration from France with a very slight of Spanish touch. The reason being that the Western and Eastern Roman Empire equivalents, Vectis and Vorst never fell. Additionally, the Carthaginian equivalent, Ivalis still exists so there's that too 8).
Now ... all of this being said, I'm done with the history lessons and I'd like to offer my hand in welcoming you to Altaea, Nevis! I'm glad you've taken interest and that you're pointing out potential inconsistencies and honestly, this all helps to hammer out potholes. Again, take what I said with a grain of salt and if you have any other questions, just hurl something my way 8D
Yes, we are still accepting more writers and as the saying goes, the more merrier!
Regarding the historical tidbits, I'm glad you're sweeping the story's historical inspirations and I commend you for calling me out on potential inconsistencies, but just note that for storytelling purposes, we aren't necessarily following an exact chronological replica, but taking a bit of this and that for world and story-building purposes. I did state before that this is a very technologically advanced Late Middle Ages so ... socially and living-wise, most North and Southwest Carcassonians are still confined to feudalism and certain living situations. The existing pictures are really just very aesthetically appealing images that could allow other writers to get a rough sense of what to expect.
Nevis said
Also, the technological level you keep describing (and showing pictures of) actually isn't Medieval or Middle Age,or even early Renaissance-it's late Renaissance and early Early Modern period- the late 1400s though the first half of the 1500s. Full-plate armor reached it's apex (and the designs that you keep showing) well or even late into the Renaissance and during the Early Modern Period. The presence of firearms to the indicated degree, especially, points to the Early Modern Period. In our world-firearms hit a critical mass starting at about the 1570s where they began making full-plate armor, pikes, halberds and so on obsolete at a much faster rate than even before. As this it taking place a little before that, I think something like 1530-1560 is roughly where this setting is in terms of technology.
Take what I say with a grain of salt, because I'd like to share where I come from because I do what know what you're referring to. Timeline and technologically, you are correct in the sense that some of Altaea's existing technologies can be categorized between the late 1400s and early 1500s, but to if you look at when the Late Middle Ages ends; historians generally agree that it spanned all the way to the 1500s while the early Renaissance is said to have begun during the 14th centuries. The lines are somewhat blurred in terms of categorizing what culminated into the arts, cultural expansions, literature, education, sciences, wide-spread media, and other major disciplines. Multiple Renaissances also occurred in certain areas of Europe at later parts of the 15th century, most notably France, England, the Netherlands, and Poland. I left mention of the Renaissance a bit vague to give breathing room to emerging ideas, philosophies, scientific discoveries, and pioneering architectural advancements.
Nevis said Also, a slight misuse of the word-the Renaissance was not about people's rights and equality, especially not class; that's more from the French Revolution aspect. The Renaissance is marked as a return to and flourishing of the 'fine arts', such as music, painting and especially literature and education, and was particularly characterized by a fascination with the self and self-importance (as compared to the importance of others and society as a whole, out things, from before).
This brings me to my next point in that Valania is heavily based on Ancien Regime France and the Kingdom Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, better known as the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Since the Renaissance is said to have likely occurred in France and Poland within the late 14th century, that does make perfect sense to place the beginning of certain advancements, held back by Sarife and Valania's aristocratic authority and largely feudal systems. I did borrow several inspirations from the French Revolution so really I'm glad you caught that. My intention was and still is to combine certain elements from the Renaissance, Age of Enlightment, and the Modern Era to craft a masterful tale with other writers so we won't necessarily strictly confine our creativity.
On the schpiel about the Renaissance, it wasn't just an expansion in the arts, literature, or self-discovery. You could certainly argue that during the early Renaissance, the Bubonic Plague actually culminated a transition into a sort of Late Middle Ages Industrial Revolution due to largely reduced populace, large surplus wealth left to surviving Europeans, advent of early manufacturing (paper production from discarded clothing, mechanical engineering for crudely automated organs or clock systems, and greater metal production).
Coupling this is the spread of Christianity and pilgrimages is also said to have set wheels for early predecessor for organized companies and wide-scale urbanization due to increased demands for lodging, food and beverage vendors, attractions, and expansions within various commercial sectors.
Regarding Firearms, they were really developed as a cheaper and more powerful alternative to crossbows or ranged weapons, in that they required less training to punch through armor. Firearms also really weren't fully optimized until recently and even then, modern rifles aren't in some respects 100% accurate. Muskets certainly did make pike, halberds, and certain close quarters weapons obsolete, but the accuracy left much to be desired. In fact, to maximize muzzle loading firearms, soldiers of the Renaissance and Early Modern Age clustered firearm wielding infantry together for synchronized barrages.
Arquebuses, Wheel locks, and other firearms certainly weren't entirely reliable or accurate and in some instances even dangerous to operate. I will go on to argue that during the late 17th and early 18th century, the Swedish Carolean army's arms combinations with pikes, swords, and muskets produced devastating results against their enemies. Even at 100 yards, muskets were quite inaccurate at which point, only rifles, mortars, rockets, or cannons could snipe or obliterate the intended targets. The Swedish Caroleans knew this and did not open fire with their 17th and 18th century weapons until they came within 50 meters, at which case, they unleashed one massive firearm barrage before charging at full force. Suffice to say, they killed a lot of enemy soldiers before exhausting wars against the Poles, Danes, and the Russians irreversibly shattered their military power.
Nevis said
Rapiers are also specifically not primarily a battlefield weapon-they are specifically designed for dueling (and specifically for unarmed combat at that, except for things like the tuck/estoc) and were uncommon on an open battlefield. At this technological level, arming swords (the vanilla Medieval-setting one-handed double-edged cruciform sword) and side swords (can be either an arming sword with a rapier hilt or a true hybrid of the two-never especially popular), though longswords would be in decline (though not greatswords like zweihanders; this is actually when they reached their greatest use!).
This is all true, but regarding Rapiers; the term Rapier was referred to various weapon types, some of which did not necessarily refer to the unarmored, single target types we know about today. Certainly, existing longswords, two-handed weapons, or zweihanders will have their uses in certain parts of Valania and Sarife, but between Pikelines and Static Shield Walls with supporting archer and firearm elements, their uses are deadly in that they are effective for assaulting shock troopers 8).
Nevis said Will you please explain in more detail about the magic that exists and what is allowed for player characters to have?
Also, is there any lands and/or nations that parallel western and northern Europe, such as France, Spain, Germany and England?
Existing magic is actually very weak in that wielders and their abilities are very rare and few and far in between. You'll have to PM me to know what magic exists!
Regarding Western European parallels, Valania is probably one of the only known Western influenced nations within Carcassonne and draws heavy inspiration from France with a very slight of Spanish touch. The reason being that the Western and Eastern Roman Empire equivalents, Vectis and Vorst never fell. Additionally, the Carthaginian equivalent, Ivalis still exists so there's that too 8).
Now ... all of this being said, I'm done with the history lessons and I'd like to offer my hand in welcoming you to Altaea, Nevis! I'm glad you've taken interest and that you're pointing out potential inconsistencies and honestly, this all helps to hammer out potholes. Again, take what I said with a grain of salt and if you have any other questions, just hurl something my way 8D
Nevis The Aether Swordsman
Member
Seen
2 yrs ago
Alright, I'll get on (a) character(s), then.
Oh, something I missed about the Renaissance (it was really late when I wrote that <p) is that a large part of it was also about a return to 'Classical' styles of thought and architecture-that is, Greek and Roman, based on large open styles and geometric (and even number) styles, as compared to the 'Gothic' style which was more about what aesthetically looked pleasing, intuition and mystery, that was predominant during the Medieval period.
I already knew just about all of that-I'm quite glad to see someone else know that, too, though ^^
Actually, most of our current names for weapons (and especially swords) are modern inventions or at least modern uses of them. At that time, they were largely referred to as 'swords', with occasional use of 'longsword', 'long sword', 'great sword', 'dueling sword', 'side-sword/belt-sword' and so on. So, yeah, they weren't really classified by name back then, although I haven't heard of rapier specifically being used to refer to anything else.
As I'm not entirely sure about what your point was with the paragraph on two-handed swords... swords actually reached their longest length and greatest size in real life once plate armor was actually already in decline. The open battlefield of pikes, polearms and arquebuses was actually when the largest swords reached their apex use. While, granted, they were still an uncommon weapon (more dangerous to use than a spear, took way more training to use effectively, more expensive weapon and so on), the technological level here is actually the very best one for them.
Anyways, I'll pm you about the magic, then.
Oh, also, someone mentioned Le Chevalier D'eon (back on the first page, I think >.>) Yes, a great anime-a rare case of a tragedy that did not seem forced. Also a rare case of an anime that's better than the manga (by continents).
Oh, something I missed about the Renaissance (it was really late when I wrote that <p) is that a large part of it was also about a return to 'Classical' styles of thought and architecture-that is, Greek and Roman, based on large open styles and geometric (and even number) styles, as compared to the 'Gothic' style which was more about what aesthetically looked pleasing, intuition and mystery, that was predominant during the Medieval period.
I already knew just about all of that-I'm quite glad to see someone else know that, too, though ^^
Actually, most of our current names for weapons (and especially swords) are modern inventions or at least modern uses of them. At that time, they were largely referred to as 'swords', with occasional use of 'longsword', 'long sword', 'great sword', 'dueling sword', 'side-sword/belt-sword' and so on. So, yeah, they weren't really classified by name back then, although I haven't heard of rapier specifically being used to refer to anything else.
As I'm not entirely sure about what your point was with the paragraph on two-handed swords... swords actually reached their longest length and greatest size in real life once plate armor was actually already in decline. The open battlefield of pikes, polearms and arquebuses was actually when the largest swords reached their apex use. While, granted, they were still an uncommon weapon (more dangerous to use than a spear, took way more training to use effectively, more expensive weapon and so on), the technological level here is actually the very best one for them.
Anyways, I'll pm you about the magic, then.
Oh, also, someone mentioned Le Chevalier D'eon (back on the first page, I think >.>) Yes, a great anime-a rare case of a tragedy that did not seem forced. Also a rare case of an anime that's better than the manga (by continents).
OP
GourmetItalia
Member
Seen
9 mos ago
Ahhhh, given that Altaea's Interest thread's entering second page status, I figured I'd throw a post here to both clarify Nevis' expertise in historical matters and move the chain 8)
These Classical styles are now referred to as Classical Antiquity, which is a term used to describe the cultural history surrounding the Greco-Roman world prior to the Western Roman Empire's downfall. Many Renaissance artists, in particular, began to emulate, study, and mimick many Greco-Roman disciplines considered lost or forgotten over the centuries. In this respect, many architectural, art, and anatomical disciplines owe refinement due to discoveries made during the Renaissance as well as the movement's, Classical Antiquity hungers.
Regarding name classifications, naming conventions are skewed because not all known names were recorded onto books. Medieval naming standards weren't as meticulous, varied, or specific as today's standards are, in fact, what's both fascinating and altogether odd is that common medieval naming practices involved issuing very few names or in some cases the same name for differing objects or subjects while one object or subject discipline usually carried many names
.
Not entirely familiar with two handed swords, but owing to certain readings, the long swords certainly did not offer any tactical advantages against pikelines, stiff close quarters engagements, or static kite shield/round shield/hoplon walls. There are several books that do offer some sort insight into utilizing two handed swords for severing pikeheads and utilizing twirling movements to keep fighters at bay so to say they were useless is far from accurate! On the other hand, even though two handed swords certainly did have greater reach, they required open space for the best exploitation. I do recall reading about various battlefield accounts involving Gaullic longswordmen having difficulty penetrating Roman Legionary lines. This was due to numerous issues regarding the static manner, in which Roman soldiers fought and the lack of open space required to effectively wield their loose fighting styles. I understand that the Flamberge was an effective weapon and when I mentioned my two cents on two handed swords, what I meant was that they could be most effective for shock troops operating outside pikewalls when open gaps appeared within various static shield or pike lines. I'm not an expert so Nevis can certainly take over here 8)
Nevis said
Alright, I'll get on (a) character(s), then.Oh, something I missed about the Renaissance (it was really late when I wrote that <p) is that a large part of it was also about a return to 'Classical' styles of thought and architecture-that is, Greek and Roman, based on large open styles and geometric (and even number) styles, as compared to the 'Gothic' style which was more about what aesthetically looked pleasing, intuition and mystery, that was predominant during the Medieval period.
These Classical styles are now referred to as Classical Antiquity, which is a term used to describe the cultural history surrounding the Greco-Roman world prior to the Western Roman Empire's downfall. Many Renaissance artists, in particular, began to emulate, study, and mimick many Greco-Roman disciplines considered lost or forgotten over the centuries. In this respect, many architectural, art, and anatomical disciplines owe refinement due to discoveries made during the Renaissance as well as the movement's, Classical Antiquity hungers.
Nevis said
^^Actually, most of our current names for weapons (and especially swords) are modern inventions or at least modern uses of them. At that time, they were largely referred to as 'swords', with occasional use of 'longsword', 'long sword', 'great sword', 'dueling sword', 'side-sword/belt-sword' and so on. So, yeah, they weren't really classified by name back then, although I haven't heard of rapier specifically being used to refer to anything else.
Regarding name classifications, naming conventions are skewed because not all known names were recorded onto books. Medieval naming standards weren't as meticulous, varied, or specific as today's standards are, in fact, what's both fascinating and altogether odd is that common medieval naming practices involved issuing very few names or in some cases the same name for differing objects or subjects while one object or subject discipline usually carried many names
.Nevis said
As I'm not entirely sure about what your point was with the paragraph on two-handed swords... swords actually reached their longest length and greatest size in real life once plate armor was actually already in decline. The open battlefield of pikes, polearms and arquebuses was actually when the largest swords reached their apex use. While, granted, they were still an uncommon weapon (more dangerous to use than a spear, took way more training to use effectively, more expensive weapon and so on), the technological level here is actually the very best one for them.
Not entirely familiar with two handed swords, but owing to certain readings, the long swords certainly did not offer any tactical advantages against pikelines, stiff close quarters engagements, or static kite shield/round shield/hoplon walls. There are several books that do offer some sort insight into utilizing two handed swords for severing pikeheads and utilizing twirling movements to keep fighters at bay so to say they were useless is far from accurate! On the other hand, even though two handed swords certainly did have greater reach, they required open space for the best exploitation. I do recall reading about various battlefield accounts involving Gaullic longswordmen having difficulty penetrating Roman Legionary lines. This was due to numerous issues regarding the static manner, in which Roman soldiers fought and the lack of open space required to effectively wield their loose fighting styles. I understand that the Flamberge was an effective weapon and when I mentioned my two cents on two handed swords, what I meant was that they could be most effective for shock troops operating outside pikewalls when open gaps appeared within various static shield or pike lines. I'm not an expert so Nevis can certainly take over here 8)
LangesMesser
Member
Offline since relaunch
GourmetItalia said
Ahhhh, given that Altaea's Interest thread's entering second page status, I figured I'd throw a post here to both clarify Nevis' expertise in historical matters and move the chain 8)These are now referred to as , which is a term used to describe the cultural history surrounding the Greco-Roman world prior to the Western Roman Empire's downfall. Many Renaissance artists, in particular, began to emulate, study, and mimick many Greco-Roman disciplines considered lost or forgotten over the centuries. In this respect, many architectural, art, and anatomical disciplines owe refinement due to discoveries made during the Renaissance as well as the movement's, Classical Antiquity hungers.Regarding name classifications, naming conventions are skewed because not all known names were recorded onto books. Medieval naming standards weren't as meticulous, varied, or specific as today's standards are, in fact, what's both fascinating and altogether odd is that common medieval naming practices involved issuing very few names or in some cases the same name for differing objects or subjects while one object or subject discipline usually carried many names .Not entirely familiar with two handed swords, but owing to certain readings, the long swords certainly did not offer any tactical advantages against pikelines, stiff close quarters engagements, or static kite shield/round shield/hoplon walls. There are several books that offer some sort insight into utilizing two handed swords for severing pikeheads and utilizing twirling movements to keep fighters at bay so to say they were useless is far from accurate! On the other hand, even though two handed swords certainly did have greater reach, they required open space for the best exploitation. I do recall reading about various battlefield accounts involving Gaullic longswordmen having difficulty penetrating Roman Legionary lines. This was due to numerous issues regarding the static manner, in which Roman soldiers fought and the lack of open space required to effectively wield their loose fighting styles. I understand that the Flamberge was an effective weapon and when I mentioned my two cents on two handed swords, what I meant was that they could be most effective for shock troops operating outside pikewalls when open gaps appeared within various static shield or pike lines. I'm not an expert so Nevis can certainly take over here 8)
Another history buff here, actually specializing in late medieval/Renaissance weaponry by chance, lol. Two-handed swords like the Zweihander or Bidenhander were quite common during the first half of the 16th century in mainland Europe. They were used almost exclusively in pike&shot formations. They were used on the flanks and rear to protect the square from flanking maneuvers and cavalry. They were also used in the center to protect the standard, and to take advantage of a gap if it appeared in an enemy square. To be fair, these great-swords were generally phased out and replaced with halberds as time went on, but men skilled in the use of a Zweihander were seen in very high regard (especially amongst the famous Landsknecht mercenaries from the German principalities). Generally, men who could wield these weapons were given double the pay of a normal soldier and wore more armor as a result, which is where their name "Doppelsöldner" or double-soldier.
Hope that helps!
© 2007-2024