Military RPs- a Cause for Debate

[SyrianHamster]

So we seem to be at some level of agreement.

Hypothetically, how would we go about making something that could cater to the average joe, and the average professor?

I think I'd start by creating a fictional operation, to deny the nerds their over-saturation in background knowledge.

The setting would have to be a well known one, so's that average joe isn't forced to go on wikipedia and read up on what happened and why. World Wars 1 & 2 would be examples of this... in fact I think a World War 1 military RP might be fun, but I'll lock that away for another day. Vietnam, everyone knows what Vietnam was. The Gulf War gets a bit fuzzy, because it was boring and lacked drama so people don't know a great deal about it in comparison to the others. But yeah you get my point, you'd have to choose a well known setting; otherwise, if you do choose something that isn't, then you'd have to explain it.

Some of the RPs I joined just said "This is happening during blah blah" and then I had to go away and work out what the Hell blah blah was.

So fictional operation, popular/well known setting. We got that.

Then it gets to the horrible part. Character design and weapons. I'd be tempted to literally equip everyone with the same thing, but that'd upset the nerds something chronic. So then you'd have to go the "choose whatever" route. Average joe picks his M16. Average professor picks his Mark 18 CQBR, which means nothing to anyone who doesn't know loads about guns.

Maybe fire teams? Put the players in charge of a group of anywhere between 2 and 10 NPC troops- nah, you'd get the same issue.

So, fictional operation, popular/well known setting, go crazy on choosing weapons.

It's a challenge alright. It's something that I'd have to go away, write up, shove onto an interest check and then modify it as people started pointing out flaws/things they didn't like. Yeah, get your audience, and then mould it to them.

Though that alienates future new comers.

Well, this has been an exercise in keyboard futility.

Any thoughts for your thoughts?

[FourtyTwo]

Hmm..well, I'm making something, that I want to test as an experiment. I will post it up into here soon- but remember that Canadian/American idea I had floating? I have something that satisfies the most vengeful of nerds, and the most unknowing. It is an RP I will need help with- and one that I feel will need a lot of active co-operation to get running. Lots of mouldability, and while I like being an encyclopedia sometimes, I know others don't like researching- so all the shit that is needed is self-contained in the RP, and no more. It's Afghanistan, though a fictional operation, and to say the least, I want to see how it goes- and weapons wise, I've made it quite simple. A CO-GM would be great to help me out in really getting it moving- I would take anyone and anyone that has any idea how they work, and the level that the RP will be pitched at, once you see it.

[SyrianHamster]

kingkonrad said
Hmm..well, I'm making something, that I want to test as an experiment. I will post it up into here soon- but remember that Canadian/American idea I had floating? I have something that satisfies the most vengeful of nerds, and the most unknowing. It is an RP I will need help with- and one that I feel will need a lot of active co-operation to get running. Lots of mouldability, and while I like being an encyclopedia sometimes, I know others don't like researching- so all the shit that is needed is self-contained in the RP, and no more. It's Afghanistan, though a fictional operation, and to say the least, I want to see how it goes- and weapons wise, I've made it quite simple. A CO-GM would be great to help me out in really getting it moving- I would take anyone and anyone that has any idea how they work, and the level that the RP will be pitched at, once you see it.

Awesome.

Keep me informed, I'll be sure to check it out.

[FourtyTwo]

http://www.roleplayerguild.com/topics/62012/posts/ooc

I hate advertising. But this is a schematic for a new military RP I'm making, named "The Devil's Brigade" (actually the nickname for a joint US-Canadian force in WW2, but adapted for modern times). Call it a Product Improvement- I'm glad I managed to get some feedback here, since it's helped me to determine a lot of stuff. Precisely why they aren't popular, why they don't work as well as they can, and in all, what people want. Trying to find that regularly is hard- so this is an RP that has been created from a lot of those ideas, to make something that could work as a unique RP in it's own right, while having a lot of nice features.

[Dinh AaronMk]

SyrianHamster said
So we seem to be at some level of agreement. Hypothetically, how would we go about making something that could cater to the average joe, and the average professor?

1) Take up the individual character offer made in Precipice of War
2) coordinate character to match up with the Grand Arbiters of Spain, Ethiopia, China, or the UK (optional: Russia whose lore has been sort of adopted by the China player until a fitting guardian arrives)
3) Fill out app
4) ???
5) Profit from having war fix in fictional wars in fictional operations in nonfictional locations with a fictional alternate history well beyond a single point of deviation.

Or do Mercs right. But all mercs rot away and die because no one can into them.

[FourtyTwo]

The problem is, it's still too detailed, and it's a Nation RP. I mean, it is a good idea- I'll check it out, but it isn't in the realms of Casual, more on a squad-based level. It's on a tactical, widespread level, too high up and really, it doesn't portray the real grit of the infantryman, rather that or generals. It'd be interesting, so to speak, but it a craving of war within a nation RP, not just solely the former. It is worth a proposition though- I don't blame you, but I, or the Guild will one day truly figure out how to get military RPs back to their status.

[Dinh AaronMk]

kingkonrad said
it doesn't portray the real grit of the infantryman, rather that or generals.

Have you cracked it open and looked at such story arcs as my own for the adventures of Li Tsung?

I think you're pretty over generalizing the RP's components based on its genre-placement. True it's a nation RP but where others might go on a grander level of broad depiction of politics more often than not we take a interest in the individual characters within the story to carry the politics and not only say there's a war and for an excuse to talk about inane troop movements, but to also look at the condition.

In my own particular [mis]adventures I'm exploring my own - China's - conflicts through the eyes of two men on the ground. I may invoke one of my generals, but that's to simply give a broader narration on what's going on, since a lonely tank driver or sergeant in the field isn't going to have a worldly scope on what the strategy is and where what unit is going, unless it pertains directly to them and they're informed for tactical reasons.

And with the long-awaited Second Great War basically kicking up there's a wider chance of exploration. It's currently small because it's at best concentrated on a single spot but is due to flare up beyond that. This current battlefield already being explored by the individuals of that state's player, a few of which have had their own stories and adventures of their own and are on the return. Soon I'll be making the return of my own individuals to explore the other fronts from the ground as we all do.

PoW isn't much an emphasis on politics on the broad scale as is the case of World in Revolution or other NRPs. It's a person taking up an individual character - or a population - to tell their stories. We may have started off being a generic NRP back in the old days of its first forum. But we've evolved and defined our craft and attitude of the RP to be more of a literary adventure than calling out stats and numbers against someone else.

Compared to the past as well the situation in this coming future will be on a broader and longer scope than it has in the past. We had too bad a habit of being rather limited, whether out of energy to keep up or cowardice on the part of the people who operated the story like a RTS experience than something like Game of Thrones.

And we've had ran by our Ethiopia player - VilageidiotX - a revolution in the Congo explored from the bottom up by a pair of captured journalists, basically forced to witness and document the adventures of the anarchistic, cross-dressing Congolese rebel general as he tried to dismantle the Pan-African empire, and the emotional choices of his Ethiopian rival as he picked his moves and came to the conclusion lobbing off the arms of a village worth of young children would be enough to draw him out, and through that the personal conflict that rose between him and the Emperor's sister. Not to mention lobotomies, LSD, and a patrol of stranded or deserter (I can't remember which) Ethiopian men trying to get home from the Congolese jungles, ultimately having their leader incapacitated in a fight with a guerrilla and malaria.

[Rare]

Well, I was always thinking of doing a Military RP that's set in World War I and at the start of the Battle of Verdun, the longest battle in World War I

[FourtyTwo]

WW1 isn't a nice context. It's not what I call a military RP entirely, rather just an RP that is based around the great tragedies of a past generation. And most people I know wouldn't want to sign up for an RP like that. It sounds really shocking, and Rare, I do agree- it would be great, but for me, it would be a lot of micromanagement to do, and there is a lot of theatres, and factors that I couldn't be responsible for to implement to have the RP to a high standard.

Another fact is that to truly understand it's impacts is to be European (I assume you're British), or even live in Europe/Canada/Australia. Surprisingly, it doesn't sell well to Americans in relation to the concept- it is horrifying, not being a war really, but the pissing away of millions of lives for the needs of a few Imperial ambitions, from the Tommies to the German troops. What did we have at the end? Hitler, the crushing of the German Empire, the consolidation of an existing British Empire, and millions of soldiers in graves spanning from France to Belgium- not the defeat of some dictator or liberation of a country. I wouldn't consider it a military RP anymore- it's just a group of individuals trying to survive the trenches, and not get shot/gassed/bombed/sniped etc..In regards to the American comment- people can prove me wrong, and seriously, I'd be happy to hear it. But it's still surprising on the whole, the American knowledge of what happened BEFORE 1917, when the Americans entered the war. The Somme, Verdun and Marne are forgotten- they are events that in the context of history of the war, and without them, and the whole story of your soldier, you'd never make sense of it.

I could do a WW1 RP in the context of it being not a military RP, but again, the focus of a set group of individuals, perhaps not even on the same side, put into a situation beyond human comprehension, with conscription and the like. The war as merely a backdrop- it isn't a focus, it is a mere background noise that fuses the characters to one another, and it has arguably, quite a lot outside of it, perhaps families, friends, politics (though this is through News and not played characters). It'd need to be a very sensitive approach- and is why I stray from it, whilst modern/contemporary is a little easier to complete- though I'd still say you are right, a WW1 RP if done right can be done.

If anything, other periods of time I'd say are underdone, but need to be done are (dates are not specific):
Warsaw Uprising (1944)
Telemark Raid (1942)
Falklands War (1982)
Boer War (1902)

[Warrior in the Shadows]

I am creating one right now. It's gonna be modern military. It's in the Interest check.

[TheEvanCat]

We should have a Kebab removal RP.

[Dinh AaronMk]

TheEvanCat said
We should have a Kebab removal RP.

AnatoliaAndCaucusInPoW.jpeg

[TheEvanCat]

Dinh AaronMk said
AnatoliaAndCaucusInPoW.jpeg

I'm writing a post right now for that. If anyone's interested, I'm portraying the reconstruction and joint peacekeeping of a failed state through the eyes of some personal characters there: a special agent from the Armenian CIA equivalent, some foot soldiers, and maybe an aid worker. So it's not playing with numbers,

[Jannah]

A problem I personally have with such roleplays is that I like to have them be character driven and exploring the human side of war rather than just being constant action(of course some action is inevitable since it's, you know, war). However, many people who participate in these seem to just be interested in the action and combat aspects of it and showing off who can be the most badass Rambo character. I'm not a veteran myself, but plenty of veterans can testify that there's more to military life than just fighting on the front lines. That life behind the front lines is something I like to see explored as well that not too many roleplayers seem to be into. So yes, I think a lack of audience tends to be a big problem with trying to establish a military RP.

For the record, I've been craving a WW II character driven RP.

[Vilageidiotx]

kingkonrad said
WW1 isn't a nice context.

Well, war isn't a nice context at all. I don't think that is the point.

Ah, if only World War Two wouldn't have happened. There would be all those people allowed not to be dead, of course. And our view on war might have stayed "Dulce et decorum est". There should be something dark and depressing about RP's that take place in war, even if it is beneath the surface.

Also, I think the Thirty Years War is underrepresented. If you are going to do some battle-writing, might as well add frilly collars to the mix.

[Ghirardelli]

A lot of people have little to no knowledge of Military stuff, so when other players start flaunting how much they know about weapons and armor specs in OCC, they get intimidated and decide not to join the RP.

[Vilageidiotx]

Well, that, and reading a post that is mostly weapons and armor specs is about as fun as reading a textbook on the history of electrical circuits.

[Lo Pellegrino]

I'd be interested in seeing a roleplay that portrays life interrupted by war. In America if you don't watch the news, you can effectively live on without any idea we are fighting overseas, it could it could be a total surprise. Our idea of combat here is voluntary, glorified, and inflated into something we consider too surreal to imagine, yet also too disturbing to explore. This isn't so for my family from gang heavy areas in Puerto Rico and Cuba, or my friends from the Ukraine or Palestine. War grips you, appears quick and devastates fast. You are consumed by it and have no choice but to live in reaction of the conflict. That's a roleplay I'd like to see.

[Dinh AaronMk]

That's another thing I can't help but say we got in PoW. Though all the same the current major conflict is shifting to a part of the world that not many people will find familiar enough to write: that being Africa. The time of conflict in North America drew itself to a close in that universe, though I suppose there's still room for a character to be made that's reflective on that period and the gassing of Seattle.

Which is probably one of the few things about North America in 2012 we didn't re-write on the move over here. So this is still a valid exploration.

[SyrianHamster]

World War One would be an awesome setting, and an average joe friendly environment. Weapon types were fairly limited and standardised, the tactics were bloody mindedly simple, and the overall backdrop would be known to all on at least a basic level.

I don't see how charging an enemy trench enmasse, and then holding it could be seen as any more depressing or dull than snaking through the outskirts of Kabul and combating a terrorist threat with a handful of OMFG special forces.

Trench warfare was actually quite a colourful business; bleak in that it was nasty to be apart of, but from a narrative perspective it offers loads of interesting scenarios.

Nothing more grim than bayoneting a 17 year old German youth, having said bayonet get lodged in their rib cage, and then trying to communicate the word "sorry" to them as you pull the trigger to break free.

If large battles isn't your thing, then they had night patrols didn't they? Where a bunch of guys went beyond the wire at night to do a bit of scouting activity. Read a bit about 'em, and I think they pretty much translated into the special forces missions of tomorrow.

I dunno, I just think it'd be the easiest one to pull off.

---

On another note, one set during the Warsaw Uprising - now that would be hopelessly depressing. No hope of victory, and hundreds of thousands to die upon the inevitable defeat... maybe a re-imagining of it would be fun. You know, where the Russians didn't just stand back and watch it all happen so's they could walk in and not deal with any Polish revolutionaries.

EDIT:

Back to the world war one shenanigans quickly,

Lake Naroch Offensive = 500,000 Russians vs less than 50,000 Germans. German victory, of course. Still, I imagine taking part on either side of the wire would make for one Hell of an RP.

Think what I like most about ww1, is that the soldiers were just people thrown into a horrible situation. There was no Third Reich zeal on the German side, and no FREEDOOM!!!! on the Allied side. It was just loads of dudes, drafted into the army, and chucked at each other so's that the main players of Europe could buy a couple more summer beach houses.