Military RPs- a Cause for Debate

[FourtyTwo]

This is something that I feel I need to raise, as it's become increasingly an issue I've seen. I'm not going to be outright and say the previous Guild had more Military RPs, but I feel as if there isn't anything left of the genre. There are no more RPers simply setting up RPs that are military-based, and that if I jump into Casual, I haven't seen any for the last few months. Now, I'm not suggesting that I force people into making military RPs, but the problem remains- what of it? I want to see who cares about it, and if the unanimous decision is that nobody does (apart from a dozen or so of incredibly loyal RPers that I play with, and whom I appreciate fully), then honestly, where did it fall apart? I mean, I remember back in old Guild days, they were at least 1 of every 20, 30 or even at it's worst, 40 RPs or so. Now, I swear there isn't anything more left of it. So, I draw two conclusions:
1) All the people that did them are gone (this isn't the case entirely- the rough dozen I play with are still in the Guild)
2) Nobody wants to GM an RP of that kind, due to the complexities of running such an RP (it's a different beast to a regular RP in certain ways, but honestly not that much harder).

As in, I search the guild, no military or combat themed RPs apart one or two, and my own set in a period between the 20th Century or even the C21st. No WW2 RPs, no Vietmam, or contemporary in Afghanistan or Iraq, or Special Forces, none of that shit (all of these are examples). At all. Now, whilst I acknowledge that I'm going to get told that the Guild has changed, and that it has become a different beast altogether, I've RP'd them specially for the last four years on this guild, for at least three and a half of those as a GM of sorts. I've seen them fall apart despite my every effort. Don't take me the wrong way either- I have done a few RPs outside of the genre (Racing (this in itself is almost dead, very sadly), a few Sci-Fish and other strange concepts unrelated to any sort of military theme, or even with any contemporary combat (eg. Heist RPs, Assassin RPs), and I know the broader spectrum of RPing from past experiences. So I know that when I say military was among fantasy, Sci-Fi, Fandoms and other RP genres, it stood it's ground well.
So it brings me to this, that I'm beginning to wonder:

What now?

I mean, I am dedicated to the guild, I genuinely have found people that I can become friends within out of the Guild through these RPs, and whilst it is great to form awesome friendships, I'm going to a lot of effort in my RPs for comparatively little (No, it's not even people who leave RPs that this rant is at, it's the total lack of participation and creation). I haven't even participated in a military RP for the last six months. I've had to GM my own due to the lack of them- and this is a harrowing fact, as sadly, I cannot play in the sandbox of someone else's creativity, only my own, which is a bit harrowing, as a result of that.

Prove me otherwise people. Tell me that there is a place for it here, that I'm not a lone lunatic who feels like this. That military RPs do exist and that there's at least a ramshackle community that knows how I feel. And dammit, if I am, then I still know that I'll commit to my little niche as best as I can, and you know, put out the quality of RP that I do (with active criticism of what I do and write, which helps me to directly improve the workings of the RPs I run).

[Dervish]

Everything kind of goes in phases, there's always an interest, it just may not be in fashion at the moment, so to speak. Even with fandom RPs, sometimes there's an oversaturation of a show or game or whatever, other times you'd be hard-pressed to find one. It can just be something as simple as the people who are usually into military RPs are busy elsewhere or just want a break.

Personally, I wouldn't mind trying a military RP at some point, but I'm honestly hesitant about it because I don't think a lot of people who would be attracted to it have the same vision as I do, which is historical accuracy, setting appropriate themes/ characters/ technology/ etc., and a tastefully done story that is respectful of the battle, war, and soldiers who fought. I want to tell the story of someone who was living through those events like historical fiction, not play text based Call of Duty, which I'm all but certain most people do where everything takes a back seat to action. Almost every military RP I've seen has had people arguing over their squad role (ten bucks says it's usually over who gets to be a sniper, even though very few people really understand how a sniper operates or what it's like to shoot at a distance) and expressing discontentment over the weapons they get to use.
It's just one of those genres that I think attracts people who really aren't mature or knowledgable enough to handle in a manner I'd find appropriate because their interests are from video games instead of books and documentaries.

To be clear, I have nothing against people who want to have an action oriented military RP, I'm just saying I'd prefer to have a game about conscripts in Stalingrad that actually reflect the historical accuracy and human element of men fighting a war more so than Ivan Drago killing a plation of German soldiers with an assault rifle that wouldn't be fielded for another year he stole from a dead Nazi.

[FourtyTwo]

Suprisingly, I'd say there's a wide spectrum for military RP. There's the plain ridiculous, which I do (but do it correctly and know that it's this category, or else), and then the more authentic, which I also do, and then the realistic stuff, which I've tried (and while it worked fascinatingly well for a while, it staggered a bit). And I do have a lot of ideas in my mind, it's just the simple problem- it takes a lot of effort to control people, physically stop people from going batshit. Also surprisingly, I don't find everyone going "SNIPORZ PLZ", but I find that people don't click with characters into one an other. Like, they are never human beings under all of it. It's a personal complaint of mine, as I fall for it- but it feels as if they live to kill people in certain ways. They don't, they're human underneath, and while some say, SF operators are made of a lot of steel, and are absolutely focused on the task at hand, harder to break in ways, it's still human flesh in them you RP out.

And I agree on that too- about realism/authenticity. I don't always agree with perfection, creative licence can take over when needed, to make sure it has a soul. But the scenario you listed is a perfect example of bullshit, that RPs in this genre can't be (unless you have a goddamn good reason for it and everyone is at least "in" on it), and that stories matter, that some sort of historical context is maintained. I don't mind having an RP where we take the piss and it has a certain direction, and sometimes, it is fun to do, when done correctly (but that's whole different matter altogether that I'll exclude for the reasons that it's a bastard to explain), but at least staying vaguely authentic in gear, actions and individuals is important. Some action keeps things flowing- but you can't have it all the time, there are tense lulls in combat, the feeling of stalking and slowly taking on enemies in systematic function. There are incredible stories of soldiers out in the real conflicts of the world- I would say that beyond a Call of Duty-esq scenario, it's about crafting an original story, that actually has a punch to it, whilst actually making you care for the characters, and bother to go "This is just about plausible- not entirely, but within reason.".

Myself, I do have a lot of influence from video games, but it's just as bad with films. Zero Dark Thirty is good if you want to gauge how you know, those types of operations work, while something as abhorrent as Behind Enemy Lines III (I had the misfortune of suffering this film, regrettably) or Rambo for that matter does nothing. I like to use some video games, but I tone it back- with real life documentaries made in the current day, complimenting the sane facts that need to be out there, with a pinch of creative license to at least keep it somewhat dynamic. It depends heavily- but that isn't the problem entirely.

To me, it's the point of inexperience, and I believe there are a lot of people, you included, that could pull off a military RP. Don't buzzkill, be too hard-on about facts (boring people kill RPs, it sounds like a lie but I've seen it happen), but don't be a dickhead ultra-killing mad know it all SF unit. If your'e going to be an SF, fuck it, make them good, and justify it. In the end, it doesn't really matter what the game is about- just so long as the human aspect remains in these characters, whether they're Soviet conscripts sent to die, or Navy Seals, on a covert operation. It means that in the end, so long as the people are determined to at least remain vaguely authentic, and the right balance of tension and shit going down, as well as normal, sane RPing.

In terms of ideas, I have mentioned before- I have a lot of ideas. A WW2 RP set in the midst of the chaos of the Warsaw Uprising, from doctors, scouts, soldiers, Jews and so forth- everyday folk in a horrifying situation. A modern-day RP set in Afghanistan, chronicling one last push into a valley by Canadian Rangers and US 1st Force Recon Marines, with everything slowly turning to shit, though the military humor that accompanies soldiering clearly there. An RP set in an alternative world, in which the Suez Crisis of 1956, following Anthony Eden's decision to push on rather than back down, brought about a new world (militarily focused on British troops). There's plenty of ideas that are original, and note how none are related to a video game (apart from the first, by coincidence, and the second by the vaguest of strands)- they are set about by simply an original idea.

So in conclusion, I'd say this- while the genre may be down on it's knees, I just really started this to put across the argument that it's a dried up part of RPG, and it's one that I feel left behind in as a relic. Perhaps it's the polarization of views, and I'm kinda left straddling for now.

[Dinh AaronMk]

Well, there's an RP me and my friends have ran for three years straight (or, sort of. It's been broken up between three forums now since we migrate a lot). Though it's a political RP, we have offered the option to play as single-characters and the likes for those who want it. Though, it's probably not built to be friendly towards them given the time-pacing of the RP (five pages = month) even if posting is slow and moves at its own pace.

Currently we're just entering the major war that was supposed to probably have happened ten years in its lore earlier. But if you want to RP soldier stuff and take some detail weight off the shoulders of us nation-types you're perfectly invited. We even have one other guy in the RP who's "basically army" (or ROTC at best, aiming for the academies after this year) so you should click/bounce stuff off of him. Granted this universe has gone the route of severe alternate history so despite it now being in the 1980's don't expect M1 Abrahms or learning to use computer-guided missiles; as a basis I'd stress most of the tech being built off of stuff from the 1940's.

Though the major boon of this one over what I see in a lot of other NRP's is there's less a focus on number crunching and number bashing and more an emphasis on story-telling factors. So we like to write more about what's going down on the field rather than a broader God-like observer of a battle at hand, which is an evolution in style that's been on going for the three years it's been mostly running. Strength and weaknesses are more arbitrarily recognized than what may be done in something like World in Revolution, but that's because I - and none of us in it - want to spend two weeks doing algebra to determine probabilities and then collecting orders and interpreting the results in calculations better suited for a PC game; we just want to write our stories. So I at least hope our RP - Precipice of War - is more fitting for singular characters than any other NRP.

You're just not in real-world conflicts here. So I don't know how the appeal would be for you.

[TheEvanCat]

Official "closest thing they've got to an actual military man" Preciprick here: I'm just a cadet and a service academy candidate with a healthy dose of being a military dependent for my entire life.

I have many things to say about modern war and how people want realism. I've kind of picked up a lot on the whole military society and how it operates, outside of what people typically think of (people think military realism means that this army dresses this way and uses this gun, but when it's really about a whole myriad of other things.) Some of the things that I'd say are positive, some aren't. A lot of it isn't what is expected. When I talk to my dad about joining the military, the discussion isn't really "hey, you might die" but rather "this is what you could do for housing when you join and get a BAH." I find as a whole that a lot of military RPs that aren't run by people with experience in the matter tend to shift towards the blisteringly, frustratingly warped view of the military that movies and TV show. Even if they are billed as "realistic", they don't show the parts where everyone sits in their barracks for twelve hours and watches Netflix because they're on standby or something.

But at the same time, the actual military (now in peacetime mode) consisting of mostly hanging out and getting yelled at for putting your hands in your pockets isn't fun. When the military - a supposed bastion of adventure and danger - is a 9-5 job in an office with the sole difference being you wear cammies to work, nobody wants to join. Even when there's a war on, nobody wants to play Desert Storm and roll into towns with bigass tanks to find smoldering wrecks of OPFOR armored vehicles from the previous day's airstrikes and a bunch of naked dudes who took off their uniforms and surrendered without a shot being fired (or with poorly aimed, meager resistance that couldn't possibly hurt you.) That's disappointing and anticlimactic. Outside of initial invasions, a lot of these wars have been occupations and the people I know who have deployed often say that exciting things like firefights are rare, disappointing (shooting off a round every few minutes at a guy two kilometers away and never hitting anything, or massive firefights ending up with one wounded friendly and two enemy combatants maybe being dead but nobody knows for sure), and just nothing like TV. That's not fun, but at the same time Rambo is frustrating because that's past the point of believability.

Don't get me wrong, heroism and excitement and danger and tragedy all happen. It just always seems to happen to someone else, if you know what I'm saying.

Nobody's really able to get a balance between the two, and then there's just the community that RPs as a whole not really being the type for more authentic military things because a lot of them are younger and gravitate to kawaii animu highschool or some shit, or want to do D&D online, or want to play with numbers. Nothing wrong with that, it just doesn't create a big community for military settings to draw on.

[Dinh AaronMk]

And frankly if you want criminal danger in every corner you're better of basing your RP in crack-boom Chicago than Iraq or Afghanistan. At least during the 80's then Chicago's murder rate was something like three times the death toll of either of those operations. So you can fly the flag of realism and still roll around with heavy weapons. Or really even modern day Chicago...

But you're still not going to get to fly a Blackhawk over a urban wasteland shooting stuff with dead accuracy from a quarter mile up. You're just a SUV full of urban kids with glocks.

[FourtyTwo]

The thing was, I would say this- realism isn't the aim, it's a cited point of reference. Task Force Hephastatus is the perfect example of this. Yes, I stole a lot of inspiration from Arma 3, and I mean, a lot (fuck, it might as well have been called a personal take on it, but hey, I thought I'd add a lot of my original content to create a semi-self created story). But I put in my own timeline, my own way of how things could work- and "Realism" in some cases, doesn't mean historical or exactly even a future path. I don't like going overboard with it- or else you'd never be able to RP it out effectively enough.

And while the modern soldier is perhaps sitting away in peacetime, this is something as a writer, that we can subdivert- we aren't done with Afghanistan, and while the calm and peaceful moments are in there, nobody wants that. They want the moment when things go to shit, is frantic. And I know more than well enough what conflict is like- I am in a MilSim clan, with many former military members. They have banter. You may not understand it, but these are people who laugh in the face of death, they're really funny, they just don't give a shit sometimes about the little things, even in the worst of times. Crazy really.

[Rare]

Well I'm in love with military rps, but in the realism way. Not the 'shoot everyone and be badasses' way, and I love World War I and World War II. It would be nice to see a setting there but reminding the soldiers who went to the battlefields and never came back home. I'm from action and all, but I would like the military rp to have a historical pathway or something that is realism. I rather be conscripts in the trenches than be shirtless dudes with two guys killing an army.

[DELETED324324]

I don't really join military rps were everyone is a bad ass, I want to see a rookie freeze up in his first fire fight, not mow down twenty men and not question his morality about it.

[Monkeypants]

but but... duel wielding m60's with underslung m203 launchers is just.. I mean c'mon.

I completely agree with dervish though, It's never about story in those, only text call of duty. Nice comment about the sniper role arguing, never really noticed it until now.

[The Silver Paladin]

I could see a nice World War II D-Day thing where you play as a nation on a beach, and have weapons designated to that nation. Or Heck Look up the Winter war! That would be fun. Playing Finnish, and Russians? I could do a modern one with Israeli, Un, NATO and other nation soldiers (Israeli soldiers are awesome.) So long it was realistic. Like the guy who carries an RPK can only be prone, and he can't run. That seems fun. I like faking it for like City, futuristic, but for military I like realism.

[TheEvanCat]

kingkonrad said
The thing was, I would say this- realism isn't the aim, it's a cited point of reference. Task Force Hephastatus is the perfect example of this. Yes, I stole a lot of inspiration from Arma 3, and I mean, a lot (fuck, it might as well have been called a personal take on it, but hey, I thought I'd add a lot of my original content to create a semi-self created story). But I put in my own timeline, my own way of how things could work- and "Realism" in some cases, doesn't mean historical or exactly even a future path. I don't like going overboard with it- or else you'd never be able to RP it out effectively enough. And while the modern soldier is perhaps sitting away in peacetime, this is something as a writer, that we can subdivert- we aren't done with Afghanistan, and while the calm and peaceful moments are in there, nobody wants that. They want the moment when things go to shit, is frantic. And I know more than well enough what conflict is like- I am in a MilSim clan, with many former military members. They have banter. You may not understand it, but these are people who laugh in the face of death, they're really funny, they just don't give a shit sometimes about the little things, even in the worst of times. Crazy really.

Arma 3 is realistic until you get trapped by a vengeful god inside of a rock while the AI all pinpoint you and land headshots from a couple hundred meters away. I've spent a couple hundred hours there, I would know.

Also: "And I know more than well enough what conflict is like- I am in a MilSim clan, with many former military members"

That's not even true at all, dude. I'm a cadet and I play Arma but I can admit that I know full and well that I have no fucking clue what conflict is like other than what other peoples' experiences have been. You can talk to other people about it but you cannot say that at all unless you've been in it. So everyone's going to be skewed on the concept of realism. It's just how people handle it that kills stories. Too boring or too unrealistic.

But the banter is all military people really have when they're bored. When you have nothing to do, you're going to strangle your best friend to get back the Doritos he stole (true story) or sit in the corner and watch everything go up in a fiery flame of ineptitude while talking about which actresses you want to bang (also a true story.) It's a different society.

[FourtyTwo]

TheEvanCat said
Arma 3 is realistic until you get trapped by a vengeful god inside of a rock while the AI all pinpoint you and land headshots from a couple hundred meters away. I've spent a couple hundred hours there, I would know.Also: "And I know more than well enough what conflict is like- I am in a MilSim clan, with many former military members"That's not even true at all, dude. I'm a cadet and I play Arma but I can admit that I know full and well that I have no fucking clue what conflict is like other than what other peoples' experiences have been.

Apologies- that was a rushed post, I take that wholly back. I'll clarify that point- I understand the operational way in which they can work, not the reality. The thing is, nobody wants that, and the banter, does exist even on patrol, sometimes on the quieter points of the frontline. I've never had the misfortune of being shot at or being wounded, and I never want to be- and I genuinely take that point back, though I will have my two cents on how it works from other sources, such as journals, documentaries, and so on. It works as a nice indication however- and playing it with the right set of mods, while it is never real bullets and injuries, is as close as you'll likely want to get (apart from VBS, which is just not a chance).

The Silver Paladin said
I could see a nice World War II D-Day thing where you play as a nation on a beach, and have weapons designated to that nation. Or Heck Look up the Winter war! That would be fun. Playing Finnish, and Russians? I could do a modern one with Israeli, Un, NATO and other nation soldiers (Israeli soldiers are awesome.) So long it was realistic. Like the guy who carries an RPK can only be prone, and he can't run. That seems fun. I like faking it for like City, futuristic, but for military I like realism.

RPKs are SAWs, not LMGs- they are weapons you could fire from standing position if required for close combat, a PKM for example, you could not (you could, but it's inaccurate as fuck). An RPK, with a 45 round mag, you can run with (though I wouldn't recommend it)- it isn't significantly heavier than a AKM, and it's role as a SAW is different to a PKM's as an MMG.

And you have brought up a perfect reason for why I don't like using current conflicts (or at least, frozen conflicts that get warm sometimes, like Israel-Palestine) for good reason. It sets itself within parameters that I can't creatively control because it's a real thing- whereas another RP for example, I can pitch in a creative area (eg. the mountains of Armenia in TF Lima's latest setting, as a case study). Even TF Lima, which is probably quite politicized now (I started it in late 2012, this was before Ukraine arose) still maintains itself as quite a sensible RP that doesn't exactly point fingers at one or the others. Though you mention the Winter War, which is cool- but again, it's hard to introduce smaller wars to audiences who would want to have to research the war to understand the scenario (and this is hard, because I know people are lazy/have better things to do (more of the latter), and would rather that the shit that they were getting into was at least quite understandable. I'd love the concept- but again, I know that I don't have enough of a knowledge to write it up to an acceptable level, that I would feel would be authentic enough (or I could draft some Finns, hey).

Enalais said
I don't really join military rps were everyone is a bad ass, I want to see a rookie freeze up in his first fire fight, not mow down twenty men and not question his morality about it.

Up to the player character that. They might just get down, target, pull the trigger, gone. Some find it easier than others, to say the least, others might need some pushing, a situation that throws them right into the fray and it is do or die. Morality is a big thing too, but must be handled correctly- different groups of soldiers view this all very differently. Special Forces groups don't think about it at night, but damn, it might haunt them years on, though others could just let it go. A Soviet Conscript in Stalingrad? He's brainwashed with so much propaganda, he'll do anything to murder the Nazi scum in his leader's city. A US Marine in Afghanistan? Could become demoralized and sick of war, and sick of his work. It's variables, differences.

So what I'll say in conclusion is this- it exists, but there is no consensus on how it should work. And that makes me sad- because I could easily, very easily, end up making an RP that could quell all these needs, yet I know that it wouldn't last more than twenty posts (like most Mil RPs), because nobody agrees on shit. This RP shows that while you're all very in favor of realism, and very in favor of a set of pre-determined battlefields, the genre can't exist because a paradox exists with the former. It makes me think about what I write, if I'm honest- and I am beginning to understand in a way, what it means with Military RPs now. I'll still stick to what I write, Because while I know it isn't text Call-of-Duty, sometimes it's just boring and everything dries up- and I've seen this cycle repeat, and repeat again (I've run far too many now). I create stories around groups of soldiers, whether they are Special Forces, of soldiers in the midst of the Second World War- and the fact that it's a warzone, with situations where our characters will inevitably have to kill people, and may risk the chance of getting killed back.

I want someone to set one up, other than me though. That I want to put across- I want that message to be taken back, and I mean, as begging as that sounds, I really have got the ideas but no time to write them out. Thanks for the discussion people- if you have anything to add, just throw it down.

[FortunesFaded]

Well, man, this is a good question. I've been wondering about the lack of this genre in the new site lately, too.

Military-themed RPs aren't my absolute favorite, but when I get in the mood to do one, that is literally all I want to do. And although there are certainly ways to make them original, I've found that the more original and complex it gets, the harder it becomes for a GM to keep their head above water. Take that Task Force RP I was GMing right before the old site went down. It was no trouble getting up a post or two for my ANA Special Forces Soldier - that was fine. Just like any other RP. However, I also needed to do extensive research on potential missions: where, realistically, could the team be deployed to, what could be going on there, the actual topography of the area, etc. etc.

The hours of research ended up being a strain on my time. The complexity of what I had created ended up being too much, and honestly, had the site not crashed, I'm sure the RP would have died anyway. That doesn't mean I didn't love that roleplay. But it was too damn much on my plate, which is why I've yet to create a new one like it here. So yeah, that's my rationale.

[FourtyTwo]

Ah, Heretic/Fortunes, was going to actually say- I did like that RP, quite a bit actually. I'd be happy as anything if you did one again. And trust me, I'd be more than happy to answer to any of your questions on kit, or just environment research- it was working quite well I recall, just I think a few kinks hadn't been creased out. You are exactly on the money with your response- head above water syndrome is hard, and I experience it with some of my military RPs, the only response being to just have a vague plan in your mind, change it when needed, and kinda direct yourself to an End Goal. Lima is coming closer and closer to it, and at the start of the RP, it is the last thing you think of- but over time, once you have four or so people that stay, you can really get into your own and craft a plot.

[Pepschep]

It's really sad there isn't a real crowd for doing this. Myself I love obscure things and my own fantasy. I tried two things: Able Archer 1983 dies early, and Zulfiqar (Imperial Iran-Iraq war) never even got off the ground.

[FortunesFaded]

kingkonrad said
Ah, Heretic/Fortunes, was going to actually say- I did like that RP, quite a bit actually. I'd be happy as anything if you did one again. And trust me, I'd be more than happy to answer to any of your questions on kit, or just environment research- it was working quite well I recall, just I think a few kinks hadn't been creased out. You are exactly on the money with your response- head above water syndrome is hard, and I experience it with some of my military RPs, the only response being to just have a vague plan in your mind, change it when needed, and kinda direct yourself to an End Goal. Lima is coming closer and closer to it, and at the start of the RP, it is the last thing you think of- but over time, once you have four or so people that stay, you can really get into your own and craft a plot.

Aye - I remember you being at least a hundred times more knowledgable on the subject than me when Zulu was running. And I think that's a component for a successful military RP, too: having an expert around, especially when you're going for realism. As for that RP specifically, I'd love to restart it at some point in the future, but not now. I simply have too much on my plate.

[SyrianHamster]

I like military RPs, but I'm not in the military, and therefore I get easily gobbled up by people who are. OR, I get gobbled up by people who aren't but love to read all about it.

I think what makes them unattractive is, they are a very niche market. From what I've seen here, they require players who know their stuff. Not anyone can just pick it up and run with it - no - it has to be a war nerd or someone who's in/was in the military.

Seriously, I've seen how these RPs look; I've tried my hand at them too, and you get easily intimidated by the players who spam facts, figures and army lingo at you. I found myself having to google half of some peoples' posts just to so's my reply didn't look incompetent.

My two cents?

You want a military RP? Then you'll have to make it user-friendly. Which would be amazingly difficult, because it would mean you'd need to strong arm the nerds/vets/current enlisted into making more sense to the average RPer. On the other hand, you'd need to make sure the average joe knows how a gun works and has a vague understanding of what goes down in military ops. A nightmare balancing act.

Yeah, no, it's a nightmare. Something I think I (or anyone, really, cus I aint special!) could pull off, but it would take a gigantic amount of effort into producing something that would appeal to both sides of the table.

[FourtyTwo]

SyrianHamster said
I like military RPs, but I'm not in the military, and therefore I get easily gobbled up by people who are. OR, I get gobbled up by people who aren't but love to read all about it. I think what makes them unattractive is, they are a very niche market. From what I've seen here, they require players who know their stuff. Not anyone can just pick it up and run with it - no - it has to be a war nerd or someone who's in/was in the military. Seriously, I've seen how these RPs look; I've tried my hand at them too, and you get easily intimidated by the players who spam facts, figures and army lingo at you. I found myself having to google half of some peoples' posts just to so's my reply didn't look incompetent. My two cents? You want a military RP? Then you'll have to make it user-friendly. Which would be amazingly difficult, because it would mean you'd need to strong arm the nerds/vets/current enlisted into making more sense to the average RPer. On the other hand, you'd need to make sure the average joe knows how a gun works and has a vague understanding of what goes down in military ops. A nightmare balancing act.Yeah, no, it's a nightmare. Something I think I (or anyone, really, cus I aint special!) could pull off, but it would take a gigantic amount of effort into producing something that would appeal to both sides of the table.

Perfection. Balancing is horrifying, and I have tried it, and it fails, because the nerds tell you you're too softcore (even if you know what it is), and the...well, unknown run into it and think it's like Call of Duty. I'd say it's a very fine balance- it's meant to vaguely realistic, you're meant to have sanity with all of the elements of an RP. But there is a life-or-death tension, that fuel to the fire that makes it exiting, that gives it that interest. As I've mentioned before, I enjoy a right balance. Influences also come into play. I've played a lot of Wargame: Airland Battle lately, so I could lecture people on Cold-War era equipment now, that I could never do before. Yet at the same time, I'm still quite into a lot of other theaters of war, Zulu being one of them (PS Dutchbag, if you do it again, I have an awesome idea in mind). I wouldn't say that it requires knowledge intensely- being in the military is not a pre-requisite, but research is needed sometimes. Figuring out what is real, what isn't, and what is in the territory of being real is also important. I'd like to really appeal more broadly to the more general player, but at the same time, I want to appeal to those who genuinely would care that say, a character uses a certain type of rifle with specific equipment. And while I can name people who fill that role brilliantly, at the same time, I can't say it's a majority.

FortunesFaded said
Aye - I remember you being at least a hundred times more knowledgable on the subject than me when Zulu was running. And I think that's a component for a successful military RP, too: having an expert around, especially when you're going for realism. As for that RP specifically, I'd love to restart it at some point in the future, but not now. I simply have too much on my plate.

Likewise, I'm afraid- it was a good RP, I enjoyed it a bit, it wasn't going fast but it was good for the time.

Also, should add- this discussion in itself has made me think of maybe doing another military RP, ANOTHER one no less. Probably same aisle, modern-day stuff. Maybe something a little edgier though, a little more ingrounded in Rangers/Marines, rather than dedicated SF. Though I'll really have to see when, though it could happen.

[TheEvanCat]

At the end of the day, it should be balanced.

Even someone like me, who's spent his entire life in a military environment, doesn't want to wade through the thick alphabet soup of military equipment. A general descriptor is fine, but a lot of times people who're really "digits" end up posting five paragraphs about the effective range of an MLRS or something. While sometimes that's pertinent, if you look at a lot of goods works of fiction (and nonfiction written in a narrative manner), that doesn't happen a lot. I don't need to know that an M4 has an 880m/s optimum muzzle velocity using the M855A1 round. Maybe that's pertinent if someone's trying to shoot out a dude a kilometer away (and even then the description could be less thickly technical and rife with jargon), but otherwise it reads a lot better if it isn't clunky and overdone.

And that's a lot of what happens in these things. It ends up just becoming a showcase for who can read the most numbers off of Wikipedia. I've been guilty of that in the past, and I can guarantee that people just skipped over reading that, just as I do now. It's not fun, it's a lecture. Everyone is trying to be more realistic and they only think of that as gear and maybe tactics and how they talk. But that kills things.