[OOC] Mobile Suit Gundam - Those Who Correct - Crossover

[Zarkun]

I shall await my chance then.

[vancexentan]

Alright judging by how this 'battle' is going it shouldn't take more than a week or two at most. This is more of a raid than a battle.

[Zarkun]

Lol, alright. I'll keep an eye out.

[vancexentan]

To catch you up to speed Jason basically is tired of dealing with Zeon and he's deciding to give these guys a taste of what power he has at his disposal . Two artillery units, ace pilots, and two elite squads consisting of Beta and SIGMA with Grant's Alpha Team filling in for support.

[Zero Hex]

Here comes another pain in the ass comment: I feel Arthanus is either minimizing Trans-Am Exia and Trans-Am in general, massively overplaying his character's abilities or just being allowed to have a character that stands well above everyone else's as far as I can tell. Trans-Am Exia allowed Setsuna to completely dominate Ali al-Saachez, a demonstrably superior pilot manning a machine as powerful as the Exia in melee.

Lets not kid outselves here, even if he wasn't a newtype and his S2 showing was dismal (like S2 itself) Ali was about as dangerous as it got in S1, he was a dedicated mercenary with all-around superior skills and Setsuna was still a pissant that got by on his Gundam's technological superiority. That Trans-Am inverted that gap so massively is all the proof you need about how serious a deal it is.

I realize his character is supposed to be a super badass newtype space war veteran newtype, but I don't think it's at all appropiate to just catch trans-am Exia and so easily and precisely sever the minute power cords on the frame, by attacking through a shield no less, when Trans-Am is such a ridiculous power boost and the Exia could've easily jumped away and pulled the blade loose or even kept going and brute-forced the X into a bad footing, since it's now a supercharged flying wrecking ball.

This just feel like massively overstepping basic across-the-board character balance and that it's allowed because Arthanus is co-gm and therefore his character gets preferential treatment, which would be bollocks, or it's because he wrote out a bio that vaguely implies that his character should be superior to everyone because of his newtype war backstory, in which case that's bollocks too, because it might make sense but it doesn't make for good balance amongst PCs, everyone might as well rewrite themselves as ultimate coordinator newtypes from a war-torn world if it means they'll be allowed to do stuff like this in the very second engagement.

[vancexentan]

I agree with you Zero. I think the fight can go on longer I was just going on the assumption that he was trying to get Reve recruited while doing the least amount of damage possible. I'm not by any means defending or arguing for or against the minimizing of that Trans-AM activation and deactivation or the amount of 'damage' that Art received from it being minimal either. If you have a real problem with it my recommendation is sending Arthanus a PM and argue your point back and forth. If Green is also unhappy with what is happening then by all means I'll ask Art to change his post around some.

[Zero Hex]

It's fine trying to get the character recruited by doing the least amount of damage possible but he just completely nulified Trans-Am in a pretty absurd way. He didn't even sit there and get beat on until Trans-Am wore off and its actual severe problem kicked in, which would've been fine, it's how you survive Trans-Am. He seriously outmaneuvered it at every point with a unit that isn't really dedicated to high speed melee combat in the first place, caught the supercharged wrecking ball made out of sword then precisely severed a tiny power cord, and only that, by stabbing through his shield.

And honestly, I prefer doing this here, it brings transparency. Y'all can see my points, can see how I put them forward, can tell me what you think.

[GreenGoat]

Im ok with it,

I think Art didn't have enough time to write it and rushed out a post lol.

Anyways, we could just write it out as Reve's blind rage and overreliance on Veda being the cause perhaps.

[vancexentan]

Yes but at the same time I don't need a large multi page argument filling up the OOC. If you insist on doing it here by all means you can do so. The way I see it the damage was unsubstantial on Art's part and the Trans-AM could have at least lasted one or two more turns. Also are we sure that a GN Blade can cut through Gundarium? The stuff can be destroyed easier than Gundanium true but the stuff still isn't no joke to say the least. Yes in my mind it could cut or damage the machine's actual armor but I don't think piercing the shield would be possible unless it is stabbed repeatedly.

Edit: However since Green has no apparent problems with it then Arthanus can just make some more damages to Gundam X, Replace the damaged armor using the downed Virgos later and be on with it. Unless Art decides he wants to extend the fight. If this fight ends suddenly and Green decides to surrender then that means Puru's going to need to go into Maximum Over Puru and kick some Virgo butt. Likewise seeing Exia wrecked this hard would likely make Victor flee.

[Arthanus]

Alright to clear this up. First off yes I talked it out with Green to try and end the fight. When it comes to outmaneuvering her she was in a rage and using a lot of unnecessary movements in between her attacks and basically screaming her thoughts out giving Gabriel enough time to react and prepare. As for lasting out Trans-AM even as things were going not even Gabriel would be able to last the entire 3 minutes that Trans-AM lasts and seeing how Green is to join our team Gabriel kinda had to walk away the victor and all that. As for the shields they are covered with a anti-beam coating on the front, but not from the back so a powered up Beam Saber would be able to melt through it saying how the GX only has the same basic armor as the RX-78-2. As for severing the small line Green did say that I could cut off the arm, but wanted to minimize the Damage to her suit. If it would be better I can change it to cut off the entire arm. And as for my personal Damage i can change that as well, but I was thinking Gabriel would have to move to fight Victor once the Exia was dealt with. And with my suit still being a Mass Produced unit that isn't all that great at the moment I thought loosing my main way of defending myself (as well as my ranged weapon) was a big enough handicap to move on with. Its not that I'm playing at being overpowered, just using an unstable opponent and greater piloting skills to my advantage in this fight.

Edit: Edited my post to take the Exia's arm and added a little damage to my suit although it might just be superficial damage.

[Zarkun]

Wow, talk about heated debates.

[Zero Hex]

It's not really a heated debate as much as "I feel trans-am is being vastly undercut here". It's cool if Green agrees to it and vance doesn't really mind but similar situations have proven that trans-am is seriously far more powerful than that. The way the character perfectly handled the uber blitzing enemy, matched them move for move with little to no damage then perfectly sliced off a little cord to disable trans-am through a shield that makes the whole thing seem absurd, newtype or not. And the shield thing isn't about power, it's about precision. You put up a big fat metal screen between the two of you then perfectly and accurately sliced open this little cord, and only that, through it.

Character skill and mentality isn't much of a problem here, again, on the first trans-am activation Setsuna was a pissant who got by almost entirely on Exia's power. He was fighting Ali al-Saachez, a pilot who'd been proven to be vastly superior to Setsuna on shit mobile suits now behind the helm of a unit about as powerful as the Exia. Ali had the fight won, and easily, until Trans-Am went online and then he had to sacrifice one of his fang pods to block Exia and run the fuck away because he could not even come close to touching Setsuna at all.

[Arthanus]

I understand what you are saying here Zero, but as things are I kinda had to play down the Trans-AM system. If Green had waited and the fight drug out a bit before hand Gabriel could of had help which he would really need vs Trans-Am. I'm in a mass production suit with a supped up beam saber, a rifle, and a shield. I can't draw out a fight with a real gundam especially in a mode like Trans-AM so using the pilot's rage as well as ineptitude (from being disconnected from Veda and having to religh on herself) to my advantage. When I went for a 1v1 with green I wasn't expecting Trans-AM off the bat and I had to cope. And as I said in my previous post I don't see sacraficing both my shield and ranged weapon as nothing

[Zero Hex]

Well, at least we agree that Trans-Am was pretty badly undercut. I get what happened, it's understandable and hey, no harm done since everyone's cool with it, but dammit, if I got told "you better pick canonically powerful stuff to keep up" in a crossover then y'all are gonna have to put up with me being extremely anal about MS specs as well, and you have to admit it made your character look ridiculously skilled or Trans Am much weaker than it really is. You sacrificed your weapons, yes, but the way the narration goes makes your character look better than Amuro shooting down funnels back when that was impressive.

Also, come on, the Gundam X might be mass produced but that doesn't make it any less powerful even if it doesn't have an abundance of gear. The Victory Gundam was also mass produced and in fact the version piloted by Usso before he gets the V2 isn't even the highest performance model. Mass production doesn't have to mean jack beyond "there's a bunch of these".

[Arthanus]

Well crazy skilled is what I kinda was going for. I mean its like an older Amuro in a way (minus the part where Gabriel didn't bitch about the suit at the start) he is a Vet Newtype that has spent years not only honeing his piloting skills, but also his ability as a newtype. And I just remembered something that could of settled this from the start (aside from the pinpoint blind shot, which I agree was a bit much and changed). I forgot to add in a mental attack after the block to make an opening for my saber attack.... I'll edit my post again in the morning to add that in because well my wife won't let me go back to the computer right now. Lol

As for the GX it isn't all that great compared to the other suits. Its armor type is the same as the original Gundam which is bad and really although it out preformed the SRA's suits it was built around being a base for the Satilite Cannon over being a combat suit. Then add on to that that my personal suit is over 10 years old without "proper" maintenance for a good time before coming to this universe. And although the Sundown's crew has been helping out I doubt it would be back up to a full 100% capability. Which is why I'm looking to scalvage upgrades for the poor old busted thing.

[GreenGoat]

i be poosting toonight afteer woork.

[Zero Hex]

I wasn't aware we were allowed to be in "one of the single most powerful newtype pilots in canon" tier to start with. Because that's what Amuro is. His OYW combat data alone was overwhelming during Late UC mounted in a unit that, really, isn't that great. If you compare your character to an older Amuro it's seriously "top tier newtype pilot". Also a mental attack would've been just as bad if not worse. Mental attacks are supposed to be rare as fuck. The one big example is Paptimus "I'm a ridiculously powerful newtype endboss" Scirocco doing it to Kamille in a situation of extreme duress (he was literally 2 seconds away from dying or so), aided by the bio-sensor and Kamille being emotionally spent from watching most of his friends die and putting it all into one final attack. It would've cheapened something that's supposed to be a serious endgame moment, worse than what happened with trans-am, and then we can argue whether you'd be able to get through an innovade on rip-n-tear mode at all, or make enough of an impact to stop trans-am as you did.

[vancexentan]

I'm nipping this off right now. As to not start a fight I'l just enforce this: that Arthanus only plays up to a Zeta Gundam Era level Amuro or Jamil Neate level character. The current nerf of Trans-AM and demolishment of Reve was discussed over by Green and Arthanus as a way to get Reve into the fold without doing to much damage to either side. This was stated earlier by Green and this won't happen again. This is a fair compromise if you want to dicuss this further then make a Three way conversation between Green, Art, and yourself and if you insist then add me to the list as well. I'd rather have my PM box cluttered with arguments rather than the OOC. I don't like how this ended either Zero I have made that perfectly clear but I'm allowing this for the sake of just getting a move on with things.

Moving on If the group decides to elect to go back to the Sundown or follow Victor to the fight zone that is the elective of the ambush group. I'm currently waiting on Sughito to post to combat Rondo as so that I can perform a switch off with Beta Squad taking on Angelo with Graham while Paul fights Stella down. Your character, Zero can intervene during that part and save Beta Team from destruction.

[Zero Hex]

I'm not arguing for things that have already happened to be changed, if Green's okay with it's her character, but I felt it needed to be said. Especially the whole Amuro bit, because being Amuro tier would mean that either there's a ridiculous level of imbalance in the PC group or that the vast majority of enemy aces are getting a massive bump in piloting skills to be able to compete with an Amuro-tier party.

Anyway, how's shooting through Angelo's i-field to start with sound? Leo could've kept that function of the F91's built-in weapons hidden from Angelo's crew and if you want to wrongfoot someone there's few things better than going right through a defense they're 100% confident in. It can easily lead to Angelo dying or him freaking out and running the hell away if you want to keep him around.

[vancexentan]

I would give the group this pattern: Paul = Kamile with weaker, much weaker, newtype abilities but better physical strength and stamina (He can't do the things Kamile can do If Paul wasn't a coordinator Kamile would probably wreck Paul),
Grant = Black Tri-Star level,
Reve - Season 1 Setsuna,
Saturnaila - Season 1 Tieria,
Beta Leader/Sigma Leader = just below Kou Uraki before he got GPO3 being the respective leaders of both they're companies. Granted they got that through years and years of experience. The only reason they aren't better is because SIGMA has that elitist complex of his and he doesn't take his enemies seriously and Beta Leader has some physical handicaps. Donna most likely is on par with Quatre but since Sug hasn't done much really with Donna in this rp it is hard to say.

Well the thing about Angelo is he's a damn good pilot. He could definitely defeat Aker and force Paul to a standstill if the two weren't tag teaming him without prep time. It helps that Beta Team is helping Paul while fending off the smashed remnants of the Dogas. I overplayed him a bit before the timeskip but I put him in because I didn't want to put in anyone the crew on the Sundown was already familiar with. Regardless breaking through the I-Field on his shield is possible crippling the suit would be better than not because if we lose Angelo this early we're going to need to pull out Canard Pars or someone who can fight our top aces to a standstill or beat them.