What if: RPG was a thieves guild

[The Nexerus]

Awson said
"A woman was near death from a special kind of cancer. There was one drug that the doctors thought might save her. It was a form of radium that a druggist in the same town had recently discovered. The drug was expensive to make, but the druggist was charging ten times what the drug cost him to produce. He paid $200 for the radium and charged $2,000 for a small dose of the drug. The sick woman's husband, Heinz, went to everyone he knew to borrow the money, but he could only get together about $1,000 which is half of what it cost. He told the druggist that his wife was dying and asked him to sell it cheaper or let him pay later. But the druggist said: “No, I discovered the drug and I'm going to make money from it.” So Heinz got desperate and broke into the man's store to steal the drug for his wife. Should Heinz have broken into the laboratory to steal the drug for his wife? Why or why not?"EDIT: I'm not saying there is an obvious right answer. I'm just curious what your response would be.

PLOT TWIST: The maker of the medicine needs to charge $2,000 because HIS wife has an entirely different kind of cancer, for which there is no cure at all, and he needs to make as much money as possible off of his invention in order to fund his continued research to try and save his wife.

PLOT TWIST II: The kind of cancer that the drugist's wife suffers from is much more common than the kind that Heinz's wife has to deal with. By charging for his drug and continuing his tireless efforts to try and cure this much more common disease, he is saving countless lives.

PLOT TWIST III: While he's in the drugist's laboratory stealing the cure, he also decides to poach some very valuable medical equipment for personal gain. Not only does this constitute theft from the drugist, it also hampers his efforts to try and cure a deadly disease.

[Svenn]

XecutionerRex said
Going by that logic, it would seem alright to tell someone they're ugly to their face, because I "observed" that.

Well yes actually. Ugly isn't necessarily an insult. It depends on the culture in which you are pressured by.

Now ugly in most cultures is an insult, but if I do remember correctly there is a British magazine that uses so called 'Ugly' models for their pictures and advertisement.

Insults are all based on what people think.

Observations are all based on what the thing is.

[Cpt Toellner]

the fuck happened to this conversation?

[Dervish]

Alphakoka said
A large number of us got arrested because some people can't keep their mouth shut and one day that leaked into the cops.

That and I doubt most people here have the moral bankrupt sentiments required to not feel guilty about stealing that would ultimately cause leaks in such an organization. Plus, I can't imagine most people are brazen and subtle enough to pull it off if they attempted it.

Awson said
"A woman was near death from a special kind of cancer. There was one drug that the doctors thought might save her. It was a form of radium that a druggist in the same town had recently discovered. The drug was expensive to make, but the druggist was charging ten times what the drug cost him to produce. He paid $200 for the radium and charged $2,000 for a small dose of the drug. The sick woman's husband, Heinz, went to everyone he knew to borrow the money, but he could only get together about $1,000 which is half of what it cost. He told the druggist that his wife was dying and asked him to sell it cheaper or let him pay later. But the druggist said: “No, I discovered the drug and I'm going to make money from it.” So Heinz got desperate and broke into the man's store to steal the drug for his wife. Should Heinz have broken into the laboratory to steal the drug for his wife? Why or why not?"EDIT: I'm not saying there is an obvious right answer. I'm just curious what your response would be.

I'm not really a fan of how this plays off of people's empathy, like Nex said, what if there was something going on with the seller's family that the high markup was justified? The way this is presented, it comes across that the seller is just a greedy immoral person and that we're supposed to sympathize with the thief, it's like a newspaper tactic that plays off of your emotions to elicit an emotional response. What the seller is doing is basically what a lot of other entrepreneurs do, which is buy something at cost and then sell it to make a profit. Say the drug isn't one that's highly demanded, but the seller is the only supplier and he's budgeted that he needs to mark it up X amount to make ends meet that month or help grow his business so he can supply a wider range of inventory at a reduced price to the consumer. The reason big box stores like Walmart can get away with selling stuff for ridiculously cheap (and I'm not talking about their store brand merchandise that explodes if you sneeze at it, which is manufactured from the cheapest materials and the hopes and dreams of sweatshop workers) is because they're large enough that they can offset the cost elsewhere in the store. Say they sell bags of chips for a dollar each and it costs them 2 dollars to buy them, they're banking on people buying the jeans across the store that are advertised to look like they're on sale when in reality they're the same price to sell more jeans and offset the loss of the chips. It's a pretty huge simplification of how it goes down, but that's basically how it works.

Bringing the whole "is the thief justified stealing", to use myself as an example, the medicine I need to keep my disease in remission costs about $1200 for two injectors. It was more than my benefits would cover, but fortunately there's foundations out there that offset the costs for patients who need it because they know people can't realistically afford it even though it's essential for living a normal life. I couldn't afford it on my own, and at my last job when I still needed medicine but didn't have a foundation to help, I made due with a lot cheaper alternatives that didn't really do nearly as fine of a job, but it stabilized my health enough that I could hold down a job and live somewhat comfortably, even though I was basically a walking skeleton who could barely eat in fear of suffering crippling pain or spending hours in the washroom a day.

Even though the medicine I needed could have instantly improved my quality of life, the thought never occurred to me to steal it, because it's wrong and the repercussions just aren't worth it. The unspoken complication of the problem in your hypothetical scenario is that the wife is obviously going to require on-going treatment; a single dose isn't going to cure her ailment, and it's uncertain if it would even make much of a difference until she was a on a routine dosage. If the thief managed to steal the single dose, or heck, let's say he managed to get the entire stock, it still wouldn't be the ongoing care the wife requires and there's a very real chance the husband is looking at a hefty fine or jail time, which sets them back way further. If the wife's going to die without the medicine, then it's better if the husband is with her providing what comfort he can in her remaining days instead of taking away her only source of income and primary pillar of support by rotting in jail for a well-intentioned but ultimately misguided attempt to save his wife.

Sole said
I will steal stray Kahjits and leave them in the guild.

Khajiit finds It's stench questionable.

[Awson]

The Nexerus said
PLOT TWIST: The maker of the medicine needs to charge $2,000 because HIS wife has an entirely different kind of cancer, for which there is no cure at all, and he needs to make as much money as possible off of his invention in order to fund his continued research to try and save his wife.PLOT TWIST II: The kind of cancer that the drugist's wife suffers from is much more common than the kind that Heinz' wife suffers from. By charging for his drug and continuing his tireless efforts to try and cure this much more common disease, he is saving countless lives.PLOT TWIST III: While he's in the drugist's laboratory stealing the cure, he also decides to poach some very valuable medical equipment for personal gain. Not only does this constitute theft from the drugist, it also hampers his efforts to try and cure a deadly disease.

I have no clue what you're trying to say here or what your point is.

You're changing the hypothetical again and again. In what I'm guessing is an effort to angle the question towards a different general answer.

Those are four different hypothetical scenarios with four different sets of factors. You can't just expand the confines of a hypothetical question at your whim.

He's not doing it for his own wife. He's selling it at a high price for selfish financial gain. The other man is not going to steal anything else.

Am I being trolled?

@Dervish

The point is that the seller is in fact doing it for purely selfish gain. More gain than he needs. I know that's the weak point of the argument if it was a real life scenario. But the point of the hypothetical is that the merchant is in fact being a "bad guy."

EDIT: It's not trying to trick you into feeling empathy. You probably should feel empathy. But the real question is whether or not this sob story of a guy should steal from a heartless man in order to save a life. The amount of empathy you feel and the amount of morals you flex is entirely up to you. You're not meant to sperg out and try to break the question because you feel like it is trying to trick you. You're supposed to answer honestly. There is no right answer. And the only wrong answer is one that doesn't follow the rules of the hypothetical.

[genghismike]

Cpt Toellner said
the fuck happened to this conversation?

Spam happened.

[XecutionerRex]

Svenn said
Well yes actually. Ugly isn't necessarily an insult. It depends on the culture in which you are pressured by. Now ugly in most cultures is an insult, but if I do remember correctly there is a British magazine that uses so called 'Ugly' models for their pictures and advertisement. Insults are all based on what people think. Observations are all based on what the thing is.

Here's my thing: You don't call people something that is typically received negatively when you don't even know the person.

Today was the first day in my life that I've ever even talked to Nexerus, and after a few posts back and forth he's already calling me something which, by definition, means lack of judgement, wisdom, or experience.

If we're going to bring up cultures, than I should bring up the fact that pretty much every, if not all cultures have points about respecting others. It goes all the way back to our basest mindsets.

Those models you're speaking of no doubt knew that hey were going to be called "Ugly", no? They consented, and maybe even approached the company themselves, so clearly at that point they didn't mind. That's entirely different from someone just telling you out of the blue "Hey girl. You're pretty ugly."

The Nexerus said
PLOT TWIST: The maker of the medicine needs to charge $2,000 because HIS wife has an entirely different kind of cancer, for which there is no cure at all, and he needs to make as much money as possible off of his invention in order to fund his continued research to try and save his wife.

PLOT TWIST II: The kind of cancer that the drugist's wife suffers from is much more common than the kind that Heinz' wife suffers from. By charging for his drug and continuing his tireless efforts to try and cure this much more common disease, he is saving countless lives.

PLOT TWIST III: While he's in the drugist's laboratory stealing the cure, he also decides to poach some very valuable medical equipment for personal gain. Not only does this constitute theft from the drugist, it also hampers his efforts to try and cure a deadly disease.

COUNTER PLOT TWIST: Heinz decides to be a good citizen and not steal the medicine. Afterword, even with all the money he gained, the doctor still failed to save his wife (Or others around the world) and Heinz' own woman has died as well. Now they are both widowers.

Heinz decision to steal the medicine would stem from a primal, selfish urge to save his own wife while leaving the next man's to die. If Heinz grew up on a farm and wasn't able to receive the proper education to become a doctor and make his own cure, can you still honestly blame him for acting out on those urges?

The tiger who steals territory from the next will be able to provide for her cubs. The one who is vanquished will starve.

Either way, one cat suffers. It's the way this world spins, and you haven't seemed to have accepted it.

[Smiral]

look at all those paragraphs I'm not gonna read

[TP]

Smiral said
look at all those paragraphs I'm not gonna read

wow you're fucking lazy

i say as i don't read them either because it's a lot of text

[Dervish]

XecutionerRex said
Heinz decision to steal the medicine would stem from a primal, selfish urge to save his own wife while leaving the next man's to die. If Heinz grew up on a farm and wasn't able to receive the proper education to become a doctor and make his own cure, can you still honestly blame him for acting out on those urges? The tiger who steals territory from the next will be able to provide for her cubs. The one who is vanquished will starve.Either way, one cat suffers. It's the way this world spins, and you haven't seemed to have accepted it.

Waitwaitwait.

Are you implying that if Heinz was educated, he could have gone to school to become a doctor to invent a cure? Because chances are, this whole terminal illness thing is recent and not something he's known about since, I don't know, the beginning of high school. Plus, the tuition fees and time invested alone to get the doctorate to work on said cure is going to be a hell of a lot more than ponying up 2 grand for the medicine in the first place. It would be like finding out you have something wrong with your house and then going to get the training and a job related to fixing said problem instead of just paying a contractor to deal with it first.

Also, comparing human beings with civilization and all the complicated interconnected systems that are involved with maintaining said civilization to a tiger, whose primary two concerns are eating and caring for their young, is pretty silly. One tiger was bigger and stronger, ergo, it gets more at the expense of the other. If humans still worked by that logic, I'd be able to go into your home, beat you from an inch of your life, and claim everything in said home as my own with no recourse with such abstract concepts such as law enforcement. Bigger tiger doesn't have to worry about the Fuzz, and it also doesn't have social services to draw from. Being a human is pretty neat, gotta say. Enough that your analogy isn't really working for this.

By the way, what's your address? King of the jungle wants a new TV.

[Halo]

Gonna weigh in on the "naive" discussion because jesus christ.
The comparison used to "ugly" is invalid. That is because walking up to someone and telling them they are ugly is doing so without reason or context. You had no reason to comment on it. Contrastingly, you actually asked a question (it was intended to be hypothetical, obviously, but still) and Nex answered it. It was relevant to the conversation; it had an appropriate context (that your views on the topic being discussed naive.) A more accurate (though I won't pretend perfect) comparison would be an actor being told he's unconvincing during an audition, or some such.
In other words: Xecutioner, stop being such a little fucking princess about the fact that he called your arguably-naive views naive. It's really not that big a deal, for fuck's sakes.
Now that's insulting.

[Awson]

Halo said
Gonna weigh in on the "naive" discussion because jesus christ. The comparison used to "ugly" is invalid. That is because walking up to someone and telling them they are ugly is doing so without reason or context. You had no reason to comment on it. Contrastingly, you actually asked a question (it was intended to be hypothetical, obviously, but still) and Nex answered it. It was relevant to the conversation; it had an appropriate context (that your views on the topic being discussed naive.) A more accurate (though I won't pretend perfect) comparison would be an actor being told he's unconvincing during an audition, or some such.In other words: Xecutioner, stop being such a little fucking princess about the fact that he called your arguably-naive views naive. It's really not that big a deal, for fuck's sakes.Now insulting.

It would actually be more like telling an actor that he is bad at acting. If Nex had said "acting naive" then you would be spot on.

It's the difference between saying that something is wrong with someone and saying that someone is wrong about something.

[K-97]

genghismike said
Spam happened.

> Midnight.
> About to go to bed.
> See thread title.
> Thinks of witty response and decides to post
> Opens thread.
> Goes to Last Page
> mfw I see how Spam derailed
> tfw I can't post my response

[K-97]

genghismike said
Spam happened.

> Midnight.
> About to go to bed.
> See thread title.
> Thinks of witty response and decides to post
> Opens thread.
> Goes to Last Page
> mfw I see how Spam derailed
> tfw I can't post my response

[TP]

That's what you get for sleeping, loser.

[XecutionerRex]

Halo said
Xecutioner, stop being such a little fucking princess about the fact that he called your arguably-naive views naive. It's really not that big a deal, for fuck's sakes. Now that's insulting.

Because this:

XecutionerRex said
I never insulted you.

So don't insult me.

Makes me a princess. Right?

Dervish said
Waitwaitwait.Are you implying that if Heinz was educated, he could have gone to school to become a doctor to invent a cure? Because chances are, this whole terminal illness thing is recent and not something he's known about since, I don't know, the beginning of high school. Also, comparing human beings with civilization and all the complicated interconnected systems that are involved with maintaining said civilization to a tiger, whose primary two concerns are eating and caring for their young, is pretty silly. One tiger was bigger and stronger, ergo, it gets more at the expense of the other. If humans still worked by that logic, I'd be able to go into your home, beat you from an inch of your life, and claim everything in said home as my own with no recourse with such abstract concepts such as law enforcement. Bigger tiger doesn't have to worry about the Fuzz, and it also doesn't have social services to draw from. Being a human is pretty neat, gotta say. Enough that your analogy isn't really working for this.

By the way, what's your address? King of the jungle wants a new TV.

I was trying to say if he had the chance to get a proper education, and decided to become a doctor, and his wife ended up with cancer, maybe he could have made his own cure to save her. But then you could argue that had he become a doctor he'd marry someone different and yada-yada-yada. So I don't know if that's worth talking about.

Yes, humans do indeed have civilization, and would appear to have more complex things going on than a tiger, who's life seems pretty simple. I don't remember the last time I saw one dress in suit 'n tie for work. My point however, is that when backed up against a wall, the human mind can and will boil down to nothing but that of an animal's. Think about the Donner Party; they were starving and cold, and with nowhere else to turn they began feasting on their own deceased. That's something we see a lot in the natural world, but it's looked down upon by most human cultures. But they were desperate, so the animalistic mindset that lays within us all took over.

Similarly, Heinz cares about his wife more than the doctor's because humans are social beings who are bound to their own family, tribe, and (We can see it in the form of hardcore patriots) even their countries. It all starts with the family. As families unite, people start to look out for their tribe. As tribes unite to become something more, people's interests keep expanding with the population. This fits in perfectly with what you said about human culture being so intricate; I completely agree with you on that. But when you take away all these layers and get to the core you find a beast. And all the beast cares about in Heinz situation is the survival of his wife, because she is essentially the most important thing in the world to him (Save for any kids).

Hopefully I'm wording this right.

But dude you can have my T.V just don't take the porno a'ight? I need that.

[XecutionerRex]

Halo said
Xecutioner, stop being such a little fucking princess about the fact that he called your arguably-naive views naive. It's really not that big a deal, for fuck's sakes. Now that's insulting.

Because this:

XecutionerRex said
I never insulted you.

So don't insult me.

Makes me a princess. Right?

Dervish said
Waitwaitwait.Are you implying that if Heinz was educated, he could have gone to school to become a doctor to invent a cure? Because chances are, this whole terminal illness thing is recent and not something he's known about since, I don't know, the beginning of high school. Also, comparing human beings with civilization and all the complicated interconnected systems that are involved with maintaining said civilization to a tiger, whose primary two concerns are eating and caring for their young, is pretty silly. One tiger was bigger and stronger, ergo, it gets more at the expense of the other. If humans still worked by that logic, I'd be able to go into your home, beat you from an inch of your life, and claim everything in said home as my own with no recourse with such abstract concepts such as law enforcement. Bigger tiger doesn't have to worry about the Fuzz, and it also doesn't have social services to draw from. Being a human is pretty neat, gotta say. Enough that your analogy isn't really working for this.

By the way, what's your address? King of the jungle wants a new TV.

I was trying to say if he had the chance to get a proper education, and decided to become a doctor, and his wife ended up with cancer, maybe he could have made his own cure to save her. But then you could argue that had he become a doctor he'd marry someone different and yada-yada-yada. So I don't know if that's worth talking about.

Yes, humans do indeed have civilization, and would appear to have more complex things going on than a tiger, who's life seems pretty simple. I don't remember the last time I saw one dress in suit 'n tie for work. My point however, is that when backed up against a wall, the human mind can and will boil down to nothing but that of an animal's. Think about the Donner Party; they were starving and cold, and with nowhere else to turn they began feasting on their own deceased. That's something we see a lot in the natural world, but it's looked down upon by most human cultures. But they were desperate, so the animalistic mindset that lays within us all took over.

Similarly, Heinz cares about his wife more than the doctor's because humans are social beings who are bound to their own family, tribe, and (We can see it in the form of hardcore patriots) even their countries. It all starts with the family. As families unite, people start to look out for their tribe. As tribes unite to become something more, people's interests keep expanding with the population. This fits in perfectly with what you said about human culture being so intricate; I completely agree with you on that. But when you take away all these layers and get to the core you find a beast. And all the beast cares about in Heinz situation is the survival of his wife, because she is essentially the most important thing in the world to him (Save for any kids).

Hopefully I'm wording this right.

But dude you can have my T.V just don't take the porno a'ight? I need that.

[XecutionerRex]

Halo said
Xecutioner, stop being such a little fucking princess about the fact that he called your arguably-naive views naive. It's really not that big a deal, for fuck's sakes. Now that's insulting.

Because this:

XecutionerRex said
I never insulted you.

So don't insult me.

Makes me a princess. Right?

Dervish said
Waitwaitwait.Are you implying that if Heinz was educated, he could have gone to school to become a doctor to invent a cure? Because chances are, this whole terminal illness thing is recent and not something he's known about since, I don't know, the beginning of high school. Also, comparing human beings with civilization and all the complicated interconnected systems that are involved with maintaining said civilization to a tiger, whose primary two concerns are eating and caring for their young, is pretty silly. One tiger was bigger and stronger, ergo, it gets more at the expense of the other. If humans still worked by that logic, I'd be able to go into your home, beat you from an inch of your life, and claim everything in said home as my own with no recourse with such abstract concepts such as law enforcement. Bigger tiger doesn't have to worry about the Fuzz, and it also doesn't have social services to draw from. Being a human is pretty neat, gotta say. Enough that your analogy isn't really working for this.

By the way, what's your address? King of the jungle wants a new TV.

I was trying to say if he had the chance to get a proper education, and decided to become a doctor, and his wife ended up with cancer, maybe he could have made his own cure to save her. But then you could argue that had he become a doctor he'd marry someone different and yada-yada-yada. So I don't know if that's worth talking about.

Yes, humans do indeed have civilization, and would appear to have more complex things going on than a tiger, who's life seems pretty simple. I don't remember the last time I saw one dress in suit 'n tie for work. My point however, is that when backed up against a wall, the human mind can and will boil down to nothing but that of an animal's. Think about the Donner Party; they were starving and cold, and with nowhere else to turn they began feasting on their own deceased. That's something we see a lot in the natural world, but it's looked down upon by most human cultures. But they were desperate, so the animalistic mindset that lays within us all took over.

Similarly, Heinz cares about his wife more than the doctor's because humans are social beings who are bound to their own family, tribe, and (We can see it in the form of hardcore patriots) even their countries. It all starts with the family. As families unite, people start to look out for their tribe. As tribes unite to become something more, people's interests keep expanding with the population. This fits in perfectly with what you said about human culture being so intricate; I completely agree with you on that. But when you take away all these layers and get to the core you find a beast. And all the beast cares about in Heinz situation is the survival of his wife, because she is essentially the most important thing in the world to him (Save for any kids).

Hopefully I'm wording this right.

But dude you can have my T.V just don't take the porno a'ight? I need that.

[XecutionerRex]

Halo said
Xecutioner, stop being such a little fucking princess about the fact that he called your arguably-naive views naive. It's really not that big a deal, for fuck's sakes. Now that's insulting.

Because this:

XecutionerRex said
I never insulted you.

So don't insult me.

Makes me a princess. Right?

Dervish said
Waitwaitwait.Are you implying that if Heinz was educated, he could have gone to school to become a doctor to invent a cure? Because chances are, this whole terminal illness thing is recent and not something he's known about since, I don't know, the beginning of high school. Also, comparing human beings with civilization and all the complicated interconnected systems that are involved with maintaining said civilization to a tiger, whose primary two concerns are eating and caring for their young, is pretty silly. One tiger was bigger and stronger, ergo, it gets more at the expense of the other. If humans still worked by that logic, I'd be able to go into your home, beat you from an inch of your life, and claim everything in said home as my own with no recourse with such abstract concepts such as law enforcement. Bigger tiger doesn't have to worry about the Fuzz, and it also doesn't have social services to draw from. Being a human is pretty neat, gotta say. Enough that your analogy isn't really working for this.

By the way, what's your address? King of the jungle wants a new TV.

I was trying to say if he had the chance to get a proper education, and decided to become a doctor, and his wife ended up with cancer, maybe he could have made his own cure to save her. But then you could argue that had he become a doctor he'd marry someone different and yada-yada-yada. So I don't know if that's worth talking about.

Yes, humans do indeed have civilization, and would appear to have more complex things going on than a tiger, who's life seems pretty simple. I don't remember the last time I saw one dress in suit 'n tie for work. My point however, is that when backed up against a wall, the human mind can and will boil down to nothing but that of an animal's. Think about the Donner Party; they were starving and cold, and with nowhere else to turn they began feasting on their own deceased. That's something we see a lot in the natural world, but it's looked down upon by most human cultures. But they were desperate, so the animalistic mindset that lays within us all took over.

Similarly, Heinz cares about his wife more than the doctor's because humans are social beings who are bound to their own family, tribe, and (We can see it in the form of hardcore patriots) even their countries. It all starts with the family. As families unite, people start to look out for their tribe. As tribes unite to become something more, people's interests keep expanding with the population. This fits in perfectly with what you said about human culture being so intricate; I completely agree with you on that. But when you take away all these layers and get to the core you find a beast. And all the beast cares about in Heinz situation is the survival of his wife, because she is essentially the most important thing in the world to him (Save for any kids).

Hopefully I'm wording this right.

But dude you can have my T.V just don't take the porno a'ight? I need that.

[XecutionerRex]

Halo said
Xecutioner, stop being such a little fucking princess about the fact that he called your arguably-naive views naive. It's really not that big a deal, for fuck's sakes. Now that's insulting.

Because this:

XecutionerRex said
I never insulted you.

So don't insult me.

Makes me a princess. Right?

Dervish said
Waitwaitwait.Are you implying that if Heinz was educated, he could have gone to school to become a doctor to invent a cure? Because chances are, this whole terminal illness thing is recent and not something he's known about since, I don't know, the beginning of high school. Also, comparing human beings with civilization and all the complicated interconnected systems that are involved with maintaining said civilization to a tiger, whose primary two concerns are eating and caring for their young, is pretty silly. One tiger was bigger and stronger, ergo, it gets more at the expense of the other. If humans still worked by that logic, I'd be able to go into your home, beat you from an inch of your life, and claim everything in said home as my own with no recourse with such abstract concepts such as law enforcement. Bigger tiger doesn't have to worry about the Fuzz, and it also doesn't have social services to draw from. Being a human is pretty neat, gotta say. Enough that your analogy isn't really working for this.

By the way, what's your address? King of the jungle wants a new TV.

I was trying to say if he had the chance to get a proper education, and decided to become a doctor, and his wife ended up with cancer, maybe he could have made his own cure to save her. But then you could argue that had he become a doctor he'd marry someone different and yada-yada-yada. So I don't know if that's worth talking about.

Yes, humans do indeed have civilization, and would appear to have more complex things going on than a tiger, who's life seems pretty simple. I don't remember the last time I saw one dress in suit 'n tie for work. My point however, is that when backed up against a wall, the human mind can and will boil down to nothing but that of an animal's. Think about the Donner Party; they were starving and cold, and with nowhere else to turn they began feasting on their own deceased. That's something we see a lot in the natural world, but it's looked down upon by most human cultures. But they were desperate, so the animalistic mindset that lays within us all took over.

Similarly, Heinz cares about his wife more than the doctor's because humans are social beings who are bound to their own family, tribe, and (We can see it in the form of hardcore patriots) even their countries. It all starts with the family. As families unite, people start to look out for their tribe. As tribes unite to become something more, people's interests keep expanding with the population. This fits in perfectly with what you said about human culture being so intricate; I completely agree with you on that. But when you take away all these layers and get to the core you find a beast. And all the beast cares about in Heinz situation is the survival of his wife, because she is essentially the most important thing in the world to him (Save for any kids).

Hopefully I'm wording this right.

But dude you can have my T.V just don't take the porno a'ight? I need that.