I still find the entire idea of us arguing here pointless. As I said before, if everything said by The Patriarch is true, then Feminism, Men's Rights Activism, and Egalitarianism are all the exact same thing.My biggest gripe with feminism is that it uses bully-tactics to shame people into doing what they want and spreads lies and are hypocrites. I don't have a problem with women, I have plenty of female friends who I respect and I have many female coworkers. But I will never respect a woman who is a bitch just like I will never respect a man who is an asshole. Feminists have encouraged bitchy behavior plenty of times thinking that it's empowering.
The Patriarch The Champion of Men
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5 yrs ago
Kidd Herrscher of Stupid
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11 days ago
Feminists have encouraged bitchy behavior plenty of times thinking that it's empowering.I'm gonna regret asking, but what constitutes as "bitchy behavior" in your eyes? Because too often it's "I wouldn't have thought twice about it if a man did it, but a woman did it so she's a bitch."
The Patriarch The Champion of Men
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Bitchy behavior is complaining like a child and having emotional tantrums when things don't go your way. I don't know anyone who would be fine with a man doing this. I don't know where you're getting this idea that a man can be an asshole and no one cares.Feminists have encouraged bitchy behavior plenty of times thinking that it's empowering.I'm gonna regret asking, but what constitutes as "bitchy behavior" in your eyes? Because too often it's "I wouldn't have thought twice about it if a man did it, but a woman did it so she's a bitch."
Kidd Herrscher of Stupid
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11 days ago
Bitchy behavior is complaining like a child and having emotional tantrums when things don't go your way. I don't know anyone who would be fine with a man doing this. I don't know where you're getting this idea that a man can be an asshole and no one cares.Yeah, that was about the answer I expected. Think I'll just excuse myself from this thread, then.
The Patriarch The Champion of Men
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5 yrs ago
So apparently women can be as rude as they want and it's okay to you? You never have any argument as to why you think women are more perfect then men.Bitchy behavior is complaining like a child and having emotional tantrums when things don't go your way. I don't know anyone who would be fine with a man doing this. I don't know where you're getting this idea that a man can be an asshole and no one cares.Yeah, that was about the answer I expected. Think I'll just excuse myself from this thread, then.
Yeah, basically. But I've never actually seen MRA do anything for men. They seem to be more "anti-feminism" than they are pro-men, which is a shame because it'd have potential otherwise.Yeah
"A discussion (albeit a fruitless one) about feminism! Ahhh, SJWs, oh nooo!" Though, as I'm reading through, I gotta applaud Jozarin for actually being educated about this. Studying this stuff in an academic / professional setting amounts to basically everything they're saying. I've taken no gender classes, but as an anthropology major, much of this is covered at basic level courses. Granted, there is plenty of evidence for sexism within the game industry, but men tend to dismiss women's first hand accounts. I know I'll regret saying anything because meninism is a word now, but there it is.Why, thanlk you, I don't have any real academic experience in the area apart from a semester-long sociology/psychology course in highschool. I can't find any evidence of misogyny in the games development industry, only from the game community ("professional" and amateur) and the tech industry at large, being directed towards female game develomers. As for the MRA is more anti-feminist than pro-men, well, that is why I stopped being an MRA.I still find the entire idea of us arguing here pointless. As I said before, if everything said by The Patriarch is true, then Feminism, Men's Rights Activism, and Egalitarianism are all the exact same thing.Yeah, basically. But I've never actually seen MRA do anything for men. They seem to be more "anti-feminism" than they are pro-men, which is a shame because it'd have potential otherwise.
Oh, the irony!I still find the entire idea of us arguing here pointless. As I said before, if everything said by The Patriarch is true, then Feminism, Men's Rights Activism, and Egalitarianism are all the exact same thing.My biggest gripe with feminism is that it uses bully-tactics to shame people into doing what they want and spreads lies and are hypocrites. I don't have a problem with women, I have plenty of female friends who I respect and I have many female coworkers. But I will never respect a woman who is a bitch just like I will never respect a man who is an asshole. Feminists have encouraged bitchy behavior plenty of times thinking that it's empowering.
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Gwazi Magnum
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7 yrs ago
Well... This thread exploded. :/
Debates have gotten chaotic enough here that I've decided instead of responding to individual posts I'm going to simply respond to popular topic's and theme's that were popping up.
The Pay Gap is both true and false depending on how you define it.
If you take the feminist definition of "Women are purposely and consciously paid less than men because sexism" then it is complete and utter lies.
If you take the definition of "On average, women are paid less than men", then it does exist.
But women being paid less =/= sexism.
This video covers it in a nutshell and describes it better than I can.
If you'd rather not watch a video it's basically a matter of division of labor.
I feel Warren Farrel put it best when he highlighted how during all of human history the responsibilities of all adults, male or female have been to raise their children and give them a better life. If you'd rather hear it from a feminist though than an MRA here you go.
This had required both nurturing and providing. And when we look back into the evolution of man, Men evolved to take all the dangerous work and focus their efforts into a career/living. Thus bringing in more money, but pays the cost of less interaction with their children.
While the mother carries the same work or effort, but mainly through child raising. So although both parents are investing equal time, work and effort one is doing so in a way that results with material goods, and the other that results with more child interaction. Evolution has essentially wired humans to think this way for many generations, so not only is it in a sense wired into our minds but it has influenced cultural expectations.
Now, this trend is changing mind you. More men are becoming primary parents and caretakers, and more women are going into the workplace. But the division in career labor between the sexes at the moment, combined with career preferences the sexes have evolved to have has resulted in women as average being paid less. Not due to sexism, not due to some systematic movement to oppress women. But because of evolution and division of labor.
She's a con artist.
I could go on about why for a long while, but honestly Thunderf00t covers that in vast detail.
In a nutshell though, Anita has been consistently caught outright lying about the content and objectives in games, lying about her history as a gamer, and profiteering off of canceling lectures. Even if Police themselves have said that Anita had nothing to fear in hosting a certain lecture.
Now, does video games have no issues with sexism?
No, it has problems. But not nearly to the extent that Anita had claimed.
And there were people who addressed this in good detail, and gamers loved them for it.
Why? Because they were honest, they gave proper reasoning, and respected gamers.
Now in this specific case I'm referring to Extra Credits.
Now, I know where some GG people reading this might say.
"But Gwazi! Extra Credits were completely assholes to TotalBiscuit! And called GG a hate movement!".
And I do agree, Extra Credits has dealt a series of low blows lately that they seriously should apologize for.
But just because they're being dishonest now doesn't mean all their past work is now invalidated.
There was a time they were good and honest, it was the reason they were so popular and why it was such a blow to gamer's when they pulled a 180.
Edit: In other words, their current misbehavior doesn't invalidate all their past work.
Now, I'll flat out say it now.
I do not like modern Feminism, and I do not like MRA.
Why? Because they both contribute to the same problem. They go into a problem such as gender issues, one that by all respects should be a human issue no matter how you look at it and then turn it into a Men VS Women environment. They paint the other sex as an enemy, and as a result breed more hatred and discrimination than they end up fixing. It even goes as far (and obvious) was showing their bias/preference in their very name. "FEMinsim", "MENS rights activists". And in the case of Feminism has turned into a sexist, racist and heterophoic movement with all their "Cis White Straight Male Scum!" behaviours going on. They even are learning how to monopolize becoming victims/damsels.
Now please note however these are strictly criticisms of the systems, not the individuals inside either movement.
Now please note above my wording when I said 'modern' feminism.
1st and 2nd wave feminism was a different story. Back then we had gross inequality for women, to the point where it wasn't even up for debate. Women had it worse, they were denied a ton of legal rights that men were automatically given. During that day and age, women were without a doubt left in the dust. Men still had issues sure, but women were so far behind that it called for specific action to catch them up. Especially since these were matters of laws such as "Women cannot vote".
But today? After we have hit a point where men and women are equal? A point were although both sexes still face inequalities we do so at a far more equal level? The time for a focused system like feminism is outlived, the times and situation has changed. One that calls for equal effort and focus, but so many people have yet to grasp this.
So? If I have issues with both MRA and Feminism (Once again as movements, not with individuals within either movement) what am I supposed to do? Just make a gender egalitarian movement. Have one movement focused on fixing issues inequality. Whenever any group of people are bring treated poorly/unfairly we address it, we don't say "Oh well they're Male/Female. They got enough privileges as it is". Stop making support homes, therapy centers etc gender specific. Because at the moment we have a vast majority of female centers open, leaving men almost no resources. And whenever a Men's Center is opened it is met with great hostility.
None of which would be an issue if we all simply looked at people as people, and supported anyone who are in trouble regardless of their genitalia or how they identify.
Well... This thread exploded. :/ Debates have gotten chaotic enough here that I've decided instead of responding to individual posts I'm going to simply respond to popular topic's and theme's that were popping up.We should keep support homes/therapy centres gender divided, but in the sence of "This is the men's section, that is the women's section."The Pay Gap is both true and false depending on how you define it. If you take the feminist definition of "Women are purposely and consciously paid less than men because sexism" then it is complete and utter lies. If you take the definition of "On average, women are paid less than men", then it does exist. But women being paid less =/= sexism. This video covers it in a nutshell and describes it better than I can. If you'd rather not watch a video it's basically a matter of division of labor. I feel Warren Farrel put it best when he highlighted how during all of human history the responsibilities of all adults, male or female have been to raise their children and give them a better life. If you'd rather hear it from a feminist though than an MRA here you go. This had required both nurturing and providing. And when we look back into the evolution of man, Men evolved to take all the dangerous work and focus their efforts into a career/living. Thus bringing in more money, but pays the cost of less interaction with their children. While the mother carries the same work or effort, but mainly through child raising. So although both parents are investing equal time, work and effort one is doing so in a way that results with material goods, and the other that results with more child interaction. Evolution has essentially wired humans to think this way for many generations, so not only is it in a sense wired into our minds but it has influence cultural expectations. Now, this trend is changing mind you. More men are becoming primary parents and caretakers, and more women are going into the workplace. But the division in career labor between the sexes at the moment, combined with career preferences the sexes have evolved to have has resulted in women as average being paid less. Not due to sexism, not due to some systematic movement to oppress women. But because of evolution and division of labor.She's a con artist. I could go on about why for a long while, but honestly Thunderf00t covers that is vast detail. In a nutshell though, Anita has been consistently caught outright lying about the content and objectives in games, lying about her history as a gamer, and profiteering off of canceling lectures. Even if Police themselves have said that Anita had nothing to fear in hosting a certain lecture. Now, does video games have no issues with sexism? No, it has problems. But not nearly to the extent that Anita had claimed. And there were people who addressed this in good detail, and gamers loved them for it. Why? Because they were honest, they gave proper reasoning, and respected gamers. Now in this specific case I'm referring to Extra Credits. Now, I know where some GG people reading this might say. "But Gwazi! Extra Credits were completely assholes to TotalBiscuit! And called GG a hate movement!". And I do agree, Extra Credits has dealt a series of low blows lately that they seriously should apologize for. But just because they're being dishonest now doesn't mean all their past work is now invalidated. They was a time they were good and honest, it was the reason they were so popular and why it was such a blow to gamer's when they pulled a 180.Now, I'll flat out say it now. I do not like modern Feminism, and I do not like MRA. Why? Because they both contribute to the same problem. They go into a problem such as gender issues, one that by all respects should be a human issue no matter how you look at it and then turn it into a Men VS Women environment. They paint the other sex as an enemy, and as a result breed more hatred and discrimination than they end up fixing. It even goes as far (and obvious) was showing their bias/preference in the very name. "FEMinsim", "MENS rights activists". And in the case of Feminism has turned into a sexist, racist and heterophoic movement with all their "Cis White Straight Male Scum!" behaviours going on. They even are learning how to monopolize becoming victims/damsels. Now please note however these are strictly criticisms of the systems, not the individuals inside either movement. Now please note above my wording when I said 'modern' feminism. 1st and 2nd wave feminism was a different story. Back then we had gross inequality for women, to the point where it wasn't even up for date. Women had it worse, they were denied a ton of legal rights that men were automatically given. During that day and age, women were without a doubt left in the dust. Men still had issues sure, but women were so far behind that it called for specific action to catch them up. Especially since these were matters of laws such as "Women cannot vote". But today? After we have hit a point where men and women are equal? A point were although both sexes still face inequalities we do so at a far more equal level? The time for a focused system like feminism is outlived, the times and situation has changed. One that calls for equal effort and focus, but so many people have yet to grasp this. So? If I have issues with both MRA and Feminism (Once again as movements, not with individuals within either movement) what am I supposed to do? Just make a gender egalitarian movement. Have one movement focused on fixing issues inequality. Whenever any group of people are bring treated poorly/unfairly we address it, we don't say "Oh well they're Male/Female. They got enough privileges as it is". Stop making support homes, therapy centers etc gender specific. Because at the moment we have a vast majority of female centers open, leaving men almost no resources. And whenever a Men's Center is opened it is met with great hostility. None of which would be an issue if we all simply looked at people as people, and supported anyone who are in trouble regardless of their genitalia or how they identify.
OP
Gwazi Magnum
Member
Seen
7 yrs ago
We should keep support homes/therapy centres gender divided, but in the sence of "This is the men's section, that is the women's section."I'd argue that we should make that for specific situations/scenarios. For example, on average it's simply a support area. Gender and Sex doesn't even enter the equation. Address their concerns and issues as it pertains to the individual, not making assumptions based on if they're male or female. But if someone say specifically develops a fear, hate or phobia of the other sex from abuse they've suffered? Then I might suggest it appropriate that for a time they are put into male/female specific support. But while they are in said support, efforts are made to help break/get rid of that hate, fear or phobia. Because in all honesty, if they walk out of the therapy still unable to be around people of the opposite sex then they have not fully recovered.
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