[OOC] Something Wicked This Way Comes

[Zurnt]

You could also apply Dark Sun style rules and have mages capable of drawing energy directly out of the living organisms around them. Grass and birds and insects die and flowers wilt and all of that good stuff. Kind of justifies having something like a group of magic regulating templars in certain corners of the world. Like in a country where they just don't have the realestate for that kind of wanton absorption.

[Twistedgrin]

Provided that at least some spells are cast via saying an incantation and sundry other requirements: Incantations are not how magic is done as I feel that would make it come from some otherworldly source, however magic does follow a glyph/rune system (Sana does spelling I am awful at it) where magic flows along channels and as it does it changes properties, our version of magic is more like modern day chemistry, if one uses x on x than you get y but if x passes through x you can get a x^2 effect but you are using a limited amount of your mental endurance, similar to a mana system but think of it as a different section of the brain (their brains look the same its just more active) and just like muscles the more you use magic the easier you can do it and the stronger it can become....but some can be more talented and genetically inclined to reach levels that others could not. What happens if someone misspeaks the incantation? In the same sense of things, if you try to use a spell and you dont form the glyph properly, well as I mentioned this is similar to chemistry and based on the type of spell the negative effects vary based upon the scope and purpose of a spell What if some of the accouterments fail but the incantation and intention are correct? In this I believe the term fizzle best sums it up, as you lacked the ability to gather enough "magic" from yourself and your surroundings to produce the effect you wanted, so depending on what you where doing it could either produce a weak or twisted version of the spell or it may just leave you tired and looking like an idiot How are new spells created? New spells are formed through experimentation, using the fundamental information of older spells and how things flow the most astute researchers (They don't need to be mages to come up with magic theory) can produce results that can be trialed till perfected, or proven out of reach (But hey technology grows with need so hell with the resources and time anything is really possible, but I will say that matters of reanimation are not only taboo but generally pointless as Is there a clear translation from intended action to incantation/actions? Though Glyphs are quick or instant for the most skilled of magus the majority project a literal guide based on memory this in and of itself does take some basic understanding of the magic but once they get a feel for this its not something that the skilled suffer with. In addition Runes and enchanted weapons while rare exist, as everyone has magic potential these enchanted weapons and armor work off of their raw magic and gives it form but like mentioned before this will still tire them, but it makes many things more practical (or more dangerous depending on how you look at it) Does it require some control over magic, or is it able to be performed by any old luddite? I think I answered this above, but magic is easier to control here but at the same time requires practice to truly use WHERE DOES IT COME FROM Is it biological energy made from ATP and pushed into some hitherto-unknown magic-organ? Or is it something like direct matter-energy conversion, and a person loses weight when casting, or is it drawn from ambient matter/energy, or pulled from other theoretical universes parallel to our own? [my understanding of quantum theory is not excellent, I apologize] Can someone do more work than the energy present in their body is theoretically capable of doing, according to modern understanding of biology/quantum physics? It works on all three principals but the theoretical universes is a spoiler so don't work on that one much This is also assuming that spells can be manipulated by magical aptitude, or magic can also be done without incantation As for the dark suns, I believe that in and of itself would be a form of spell play to force drain an area of its natural magic or even make magic unstable (This sounds like a viable explanation for a counter spell or antimagic zone in the world that we are trying to create) this however is mad taboo.

[rextremendum]

The question is: what is actually causing it? Is life inherently made of magic? If so, then what is it, and how do we see it, and how does it effect our lives? Like, are there soul analogies? If so, by logic I should be able to receive massive head trauma and still maintain cognitive function, because the soul would still be fine. I understand if magic can somehow teleport ATP from animals into our bodies, or just dismantle atoms to harness that energy, but if the former is the case it would be very easy to see, and probably highly ineffective at fueling powerful spells [assuming conservation of energy], and the latter would make people nigh-omnipotent. Also, if we start privileging some life over others, humans would rank higher than other life by the basic laws of fiction, and that presents the interesting dynamic of magical energy growing every generation, because every single person who is about to die would obviously be harvested for every smudge of magic, which could then be used in all sorts of ways. With thousands dying of natural causes every day, this would be a massive thing to consider. EDIT: didnt see your post, Twisted, give me a sec and I'll respond.

[SanaChan]

*is drowning in the questions*

[rextremendum]

So there is a syntactical language of glyphs that change the effect of the "magic" that flows through it. So what happens is I essentially cause M/AM annihilation on some air particles and turn that resulting energy into Magic by some unknown mechanism, and then I use my mental fortitude to shape it along certain lines that change its function. This explains all of my questions essentially, but I think it might fuck your world's logic in the eye, or at least soon it will when characters start being smart about things. One thing that worries me right off the bat is that repeating the same step [presumably requiring 2 times the mental fortitude, and the same amount of magic] causes something x^2 result. This not only makes little sense when balancing the requirements of mental fortitude, essentially inserting an extra up arrow into any considerations, but it also confuses me as to what is powering the magic. Imagine for a second I want to use magic to create 10 ounces of gold. I pull enough magic out to use one X loop to cause this result [presumably ~10 ounces of gold in energy]. But my friend, who wants the same thing, throws his magic through the X loop twice, using twice as much mental fortitude and creating 100 ounces of gold with the same amount of magic expended. This also fucks conservation of energy right in the eye, unless there is a theoretical limit of energy efficiency of 100% as x=number of loops -> infinity, and any amount of loops less than whatever the maximum efficiency number is causes a lack of efficiency in the magic. For example, pulling numbers out of my ass, I rip 1 mole of hydrogen apart for energy, and because I only use 2 loops, I output .2 moles of hydrogen with my "create hydrogen" spell. Not sure what you want to do about this, but if you could clarify that would be grand.

[rextremendum]

I can stop if you want, and just take the stance of "DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT", but I always like to know what is actually going on in my games, and think that answering these questions makes for a better world with more capabilities for interesting readers with puzzles, as the puzzles can be more well-presented due to the consistency of the laws told to the reader. Also, I now need to redo my character's magical abilities, because this system seems too easily exploitable for massive power for Thomas to resist learning all he can.

[Gowi]

Seems like a missed a lot in the chatter.

[Twistedgrin]

Its one of those we got time to kill, lets bust out our nerd glasses and science our fiction!

[SanaChan]

And drown the author in questions she hadn't prepared to answer because she's reforming the world and focusing on language and religion T_T I don't that mean in any way btw cause apparently I worded that wrong

[Gowi]

Yeah, now I seem to have a migraine based on the excessive "explaining the unexplainable within a fantasy context" banter. Ah well, I'll live.

And drown the author in questions she hadn't prepared to answer because she's reforming the world and focusing on language and religion

@SanaChan

Mayhaps the author realizes she should've had more on hand? or be really better at bullshitting people like Rex... Probably the second one.

[Skittles]

Just to quickly digress: Sana, is there anything else I need to change/clarify for Juliette to be accepted? :)

[SanaChan]

No, as far as I could tell, you were fine

[Twistedgrin]

To translate she means yes.

[SanaChan]

Yes.... >_> Apparently starting with no, when I'm addressing a yes or no question makes me a negative nancy and would have confused you *narrows eyes at Twisted* Anywayssss I'll give you the chance to start if you feel up to it, but seeing as everyone other than the crazy fanatic is online I will probably post sometime before I go to bed tonight. And Free if you want to post too, you can and finish the history later. And by crazy fanatic I mean Logen

[Zurnt]

Hahaha. Rex's thirst for knowledge is on par with Thomas, or even greater given what we've seen here. Frankly, in fiction, wizards working in tandem always had an exponential effect rather than a multiplicative one. Also, in response to Rex's atomic magic questions, imagine the difficulty of creating, memorizing, implementing, and activating a spell that is capable of 100% altering the structure of a substance that the characters have no concept of the atomic structure of? While on paper it seems plausible (which is the bane of every scholar of anything ever), the act itself is a tremendous undertaking. Now imagine trying to get multiple magic users to do this not only in sync, but with a 100% efficiency in their reproduction. You would not only be risking your own life, but that of every magician that attempted the spell, for only a minuscule chance at success. Well, that is if I'm understanding this correctly, which I will admit that I most likely am not. Regardless, this could explain while certain magical fire spells can harm people, but not light the surroundings on fire. They're missing the fundamental equations in their glyphs that would allow them to create a "perfect" fire. I think we should just stick with the "most magical glyphs originate from a more advanced society that had a greater understanding of the subject matter, and the current world is just trying its best to peice together the mysteries" approach.

[rextremendum]

Sorry for pestering you Sana, I didn't mean to be an asshole, and I DEFINITELY did not mean to come off as saying that I think poorly of the setting - it is super cool, but I am just curious. As for your comment Zurnt, this how I always am, but it is exacerbated by my currently re-reading Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality for shits and giggles. It turns my Less Wrong boner up to eleven, especially when it comes to magic systems.

[Zurnt]

I still need to get around to reading that. I just reread the whole original series myself, so I'm also to blame for exacerbating the subject matter. Edit: My apologies Sana.

[SanaChan]

It's fine *waves hands* I think Twisted may have clarified with Rex that I'm the English major and he's the science and math person so usually while I'm focusing on the big world construction and stuff like that, he swoops behind me and gives me a direction to go in for stuff like magic and politics. He had to catch me in a different novel I'm writing that's opposite of this in a dystopian setting that I hadn't fully taken in to thought how the world as a whole would react to what I've created. So I don't mind the questions but I was trying to explain what's a loose concept to me and it wasn't working. Like I understand it and how I'll implement but the finer points of it, I can't explain. So my apologies for not be as eloquent with mathematical and scientific concepts as I am with trying to explain my world- which I'll admit I've been restraining myself a little cause I get a little carried away creating a setting even if minimal time is spent in it

[Rtron]

Thomas is always open to new perspectives, and I am sure will get along with Logen swimmingly. At least until he starts preaching dogmatic conservatism of intellectual thought, and admits to persecuting and killing people on the orders of a religious group. Thomas is not too keen on that guff, but water under the bridge and all that. Thomas doesn't care about the past except in how it will inform future events, so if you're solid and not-murderous then things will be grand. Who knows, maybe Thomas can win him over to the side of Science and Progress.

@rextremendum

Well, I can promise he won't try to convert Thomas. And I can promise he's solid, and mostly not-murderous(crazy though he may be, he realizes he'll be outnumbered and surrounded if he tries to kill someone. In public.) Everythingelse, that's a tad more iffy. ALSO *Skims over OOC explosion.* What happened to the good old explanation of:

[Gowi]

I like the mystery of fantasy worlds just for the above reasons; over-explanation just makes me smile and shake my head. But on the other hand, it does bring an interesting point as these worlds would view it part of their scientific academia so there is that.