[OOC] Forwards Unto Dusk

[The Grey Dust]

<Snipped quote by The Grey Dust>
I concur, I like the concept. There are, however, some balance issues, like magus permanence. He could potentially maintain multiple magus (magi?), and I feel that gives him an advantage over other characters if he can simply accumulate abilities. Perhaps he could "forget"?

Furthermore, it feels a little tricky for him to be "the glitch in the system" and fool the universe. That makes him a slightly different from everyone else and allows him to disable other characters's abilities, which is a little... haunting, to say the least. Makes me feel like the rest of the world when the US dropped the atom bomb—a gap in power. It seems like he can essentially win a one-on-one fight using a practiced mental link by disabling the other opponent's abilities.

Of course, not to say I might be reading you wrong or that he's 100% unbalanced. I just need it clarified for me, so I can be assured that he's not able to singlehandedly beat everyone. Just concerned, that's all. But it might be okay with Jenno.

@ravenDivinity

He can only keep one at a time, regardless of duration. The psychic link over a long period of time is created and lingers, but he can still only maintain one connection active at a given time. Thus no, he cannot "collect" the powers of others and store them as his own indefinitely. I apologize if it was unclear, it was a minor tagline in the abilities which explained he only retains one at a time and copying another magnus replaces the one he currently has regardless of duration.

And the idea is that yes, he can potential shut down others, this also means he cannot simply copy another character who is a powerful mage at their consent for a week's time and become essentially another mage all together. Hence to prevent this from happening, there must be some backdraw to letting him copy your magick (e.g. to essential produce another mage capable of doing the exact same things which could generate interesting recursive combos) which would be the eventual stealing of one's abilities. Thus we cannot have two omnipowerful magi running around between the two of them for indefinite periods of time should they enter a partnership to rule the world(s).

And of course, one does not go on a one-on-one duel with Ibyxx for obvious reasons, or at least not without being prepared to face yourself. It is better to bring friends along, but you should be able to beat them too as he may be inclined to borrow their powers too.

[Captain Jenno]

I'm sort of inclined to agree with ravenDivinity here, particularly the part about fooling the universe, that's... well. I know this is a liberal fantasy setting, but I feel as though Arcanism and Magus being a science makes this magus a little unfeasible. There's no science to taking another person's work. This is akin to answering a sum with the answer of another. The way magic works is based around an intimate understanding of its fundamental building blocks. Stealing another Arcanist's powers would mean needing to appropriate all of their skill-specific knowledge, too, otherwise the magus itself is useless.

[The Grey Dust]

This is why the Order of the Twilight Monks fits into his theme.
The science is an internal understanding of how your own magnus works, or rather in this case how another's works.

Any suggestion then on what to do?

[Captain Jenno]

Also, as a rule of thumb it's healthy to remember that roleplaying is a team sport, if you're ever under the impression your character could take on a couple of the other PCs from the very start then there is something wrong with the distribution of power.

[Captain Jenno]

This is why the Order of the Twilight Monks fits into his theme.
The science is an internal understanding of how your own magnus works, or rather in this case how another's works.

Any suggestion then on what to do?

@The Grey Dust

Yeah, that's another thing. Nobody really knows how Magnus, like... works. If science knew everything it would stop, as they say. Arcanists study how to use it, but nobody knows why it behaves the way it does and what makes a person's magus that particular magus. Honestly if I had to suggest how to make this in any way fair I'd probably need some time to ponder it and talk it over with my co-GM.

[Empath]

Personally I don't think that kind of Magus is necessarily out of place, I do think it needs some limitations (and perhaps a better description of its mrchanics). One thing I would suggest (and you've touched a bit on) is that it could consume more energy for him to use other's Magus, that way, at least if he somehow got into battle with another character he would have a bigger disadvantage.

As far as the science behind it: he could replicate the psychic energies of a target, thus essentially copying their abilities (though this would most logically be done through physical contact, which again couldmean: more contact = quicker absorption of energies = less time required to mimic abilities).

Just some thoughts, will review this post when I get in touch with my computer.

[Captain Jenno]

The problem is that this magus is out of place. Magus isn't the deus ex machina one might expect it to be, there is a limit to it and I wrote it as such just so nobody could use the 'my power is to have all of the powers' card. That limit is that it's a science, a complicated system of metaphysics, mathematics and ancient linguistics that take years to master. It's not just information that can be borrowed, it's such an intense field of study that the only magus you rightly understand is your own. Even if, hypothetically, somebody could change their magus, they couldn't also appropriate the knowledge of how to use it because that's maybe a decade of fervent study, the implications of stealing knowledge like that would make this a skill already far more overpowered than it is.

[Captain Jenno]

I also feel that I should mention, because there seems to be some mild confusion, that magus isn't something you're gifted with. In theory anybody can be an Arcanist, you're not born as an Arcanist or else magically infertile. If they're clever and you do well in school, or they've got parents who'll educate you themselves, then they can learn to use Magus. Arcanist isn't an inherent race or title, it's more or less Luxas' equivalent of having PhD in your name. The only thing that restricts your studies is what magus manifests when you know the basics. If you learn the fundamentals of magus and it turns out you're an opacamancer, that's the point at which studying auroramancy ceases to become feasible.

Furthermore, magus is not an energy inherent in anybody, either. An Arcanist doesn't pulsate with it in their veins, or anything. They draw it from other places. From the Duskthorough, from the Dawnstream and The Nocturne. Or even from the planet itself. The reason Arcanists are hard to come by is because it takes a lot of work to become one, not because they've got some sort of low magical birth rate.

[Empath]

Ahh, I see - I had seen it from the very basic: that everything is made up of energy, but I see how I misunderstood the system. Though I must say: the idea of a mime holds some possible interesting plot-developments in my mind, but of course also plenty of risks for OPing.

[The Grey Dust]

Also, as a rule of thumb it's healthy to remember that roleplaying is a team sport, if you're ever under the impression your character could take on a couple of the other PCs from the very start then there is something wrong with the distribution of power.

@Captain Jenno

Indeed. The intent was never to actually take PC abilities (without consent, unless given for plot purposes) but rather NPC arcanists, as given the plot there is no need for Two of a particular mage in a party, but one could always use a First Light arcanist.

As for no one really knowing how it works, I considered this and wrote in the Order of Twilight Monks as part of a more ascetic group of arcanists who believe since the magnus varies from person to person, regardless of channeling point, their research is into the element of the self and its relationship to magnus. They do not directly study how to use it, but rather how it behaves and manifests in the Arcanist who uses it. A more quasi-mystic aspect of the art, rather than the pure science which is why they retreated into the Dusk Isle to hide themselves away from the more scientific community.

Thus it would be logical to state that Ibyxx knows his own magus (which was onset so late, but is a relatively simple technique requiring little variation) through the dedication of non-scientific study, he still is required to observe and study the techniques of another arcanist to actually learn the abilities before use. I had stated knowledge of how to use is not transferred, only knowledge of how it can work for the self which is gleaned through his study and knowledge of how to see into the understanding of Magnus. In essence, he has the formulas and equations required to solve for a complex expression, yet he does not know what the expression is until he finds this.

As for the science of the Magnus, if we take that Magnus is some form of variable conversion of energies channeled from a given source used to manipulate the universe around it to create, destroy or control forces and objects within the universe of which the exact mechanics are not well known (unified theory of Magnus) but known to require a conduit of will to be harnessed properly. In such consideration, it is not that the Arcanist holds inherent power in itself, but rather the ability to use power to the desire of the Arcanist. And since the Arcanist is observed to be for the large scale "unique" such that the same set of mental evocations produced variable results for the Arcanist, it can be argued that it is not the harness or method of channeling said power which sculpts the magnus, but rather this is unique to the one casting it. Thus by this line of logic, there is something inherent between the universe and the Arcanist who wishes to shape it such that the Universe would seem to "assign" identities to the Arcanist it interacts with as anyone with enough study can become a magnus, there is no special condition required to become a magnus user ergo one can surmise that the key relies in neither biological factors nor mathematical mechanics. Thus we can go into the question of what then makes the magnus unique and special to a given person if such cases hold true? I hypothesize it is the interaction between the caster and the world. As such I considered the main factor is simply what the universe permits the magnus to do given the identity of arcanist who casts it. Perhaps the universe knows the inner identity and self of the arcanist and thus grants that arcanist a particular magnus. The mechanics of this remains unknown and perhaps even arbitrary.

How it all ties in with Ibyxx is that his magnus works on creating a link between another arcanist and he. Such that when the universe sees him, it instead sees a psychic pointer directed at another arcanist within its system. So the Universe then treats him as said arcanist for spellcrafting purposes if he can formulate the combination of mental equations to use to get the spell desired.

Or at least that is what I came up with when I designed.

[Captain Jenno]

What you came up with is inaccurate, then. Naturally I know what decides upon an Arcanist's magus, but it hasn't yet been divulged because it's a plot point to come. I can however tell you that there is no inherent link between an Arcanist and a hypothetical vast omnipotent universe. Magus is something specific to Luxas and has an origin point. The long and short of it is that magus is demonic mathematics, it's knowledge from The Nocturne, which itself is a vast unknown. The reason Arcanists can draw power from The Morrow Realms and the planet itself is because The Nocturne helped establish two of the realms, and exists in the shadow of the other.
What decides upon an Arcanist's magus is not something that can be appropriated. You've said that the information isn't inherited, just the ability, and that Ibyxx learns through observation, but that's akin to learning how to speak Russian through lipreading without a dictionary: You have all the tools you need to speak English (and use your own magus) but the language they're speaking is an entirely different one, the internal processes invisible and the point of reference basically non-existent, the only thing you have to work with is that both of you are definitely speaking some sort of language. And again, I've made it that way specifically so nobody can use the "every power" model.

[The Grey Dust]

What you came up with is inaccurate, then. Naturally I know what decides upon an Arcanist's magus, but it hasn't yet been divulged because it's a plot point to come. I can however tell you that there is no inherent link between an Arcanist and a hypothetical vast omnipotent universe. Magus is something specific to Luxas and has an origin point. The long and short of it is that magus is demonic mathematics, it's knowledge from The Nocturne, which itself is a vast unknown.
What decides upon an Arcanist's magus is not something that can be appropriated. You've said that the information isn't inherited, just the ability, and that Ibyxx learns through observation, but that's akin to learning how to speak Russian through lipreading without a dictionary: You have all the tools you need to speak English (and use your own magus) but the language they're speaking is an entirely different one, the internal processes invisible and the point of reference basically non-existent, the only thing you have to work with is that both of you are definitely speaking some sort of language. And again, I've made it that way specifically so nobody can use the "every power" model.

@Captain Jenno

Hrm this puts a new spin on it. The new information and analogy makes it more clear that there is no true fundamental/universal formulae and that the patterns are in fact then unique between spell formulations. That is there is no similarity between the methodology in casting one spell and another of similar concept/design. Since there is absolutely no reference point, this makes consistency impossible, and I'd say it's much less of a science than a personal art since if there is no basic premise that all spells can be and are formulated the same way, yet yield varying effects within a given degree of variability unique to the individual, there is no way one Arcanist can aid another arcanist in the study of Magnus as between the two, there is no commonality in language, synthax, grammatical structure, or even alphabet most likely. Thus between both ends now the technique would be baseless. Which brings me back to the drawing board.

Would an illusionist work?

[Captain Jenno]

Science is something that can be empirically proven. Two luxomancers can perform the same mental equation and get the same energy bolt, in this respect luxomancy and magus in general is a science. Perhaps a better analogy would've been a biologist trying to give a lecture on metaphysics, except they're not any sort of physicist. If your character was a luxomancer they would be able to learn how to perform the spells of other luxomancers, not through observation or intuition but by being taught the processes by the luxomancers themselves: If you are not a luxomancer, then it would take ten years just to get to the point at which you understood the theory behind luxomancy, and even then you wouldn't be able to cast the spells, given that yours is a different sort of magus.

The reason magus is so diverse then is because, just like any group of sciences, there are veritable thousands of subdivisions of study and- much like when one is working towards their degree- it is a necessity that many Arcanists develop their own personal fields of study just as one would research their thesis. Two people may both be pyromancers, and both will be capable of conjuring generic fireballs and setting things alight. However if one devotes their study time to causing spontaneous explosions, and another studies towards spewing molten rock from their palms, the way they've achieved this is known only to them, and not the adjacent pyromancer. This isn't to say that what they're doing isn't an empirical science, it's just that they're studying two different areas of it: They could just as easily exchange notes, and- both of them having studied pyromancy- they would both understand. But someone who isn't a pyromancer and instead studied, let's say, Terramancy (earth manipulation) wouldn't understand a word of it, just as a biologist wouldn't understand a lecture on metaphysics.

Ibyxx has not studied pyromancy. He hasn't put the decade into learning its fundamentals, just as he hasn't put the decade into learning about umbramancy, luxomancy, opacamancy, auroramancy, necromancy or any other form of magus. Just because it cannot be emulated by people who don't study the same subject doesn't make it any less a science, if that were the case biologists and physicists would be mighty skeptical of one another.

Define illusionist.

[Captain Jenno]

I feel like I shouldn't even have to explain this, you don't need a degree to be in this roleplay, I made magus a field of scientific study just so people couldn't pull exactly this routine and claim any sort of finesse with using other powers.

[The Grey Dust]

Ah. My mistake then. I thought magnus in itself is a field of study. However it is now clear that the schools of magnus themselves are the field and magnus is not a science but rather science in itself. That is there is no direct study of magnus as by the analogy they are different fields where each specialist can fund their niche.

I'll go with something far more simple then as it seems I am confused by the mechanisms to create something complicated as a psionic illusionist.

[Captain Jenno]

For clarity's sake, is anybody else confused about the nature of magus?

[Empath]

For clarity's sake, is anybody else confused about the nature of magus?

@Captain Jenno

Yea, what is that? Sounds like some sort of squirrel, or something...
:P

[ravenDivinity]

I understand magus, yeah. Will we start soon?

[Captain Jenno]

We will, yes! Sorry for the delay, but as Princess can attest I've been on death's door the last couple days. I've got a terrible immune system exacerbated by an inherent sleeping disorder, so when I get hit with the flu I am effectively dead to the world for a little while. Working on the start now.

[Empath]

But... I thought you Brits drank all that tea in order not to get sick?