[OOC] Time's are Changing - Steampunk NRP set in the 1800s

[null123]

If you want to right something about getting the Pope's blessing, you have my approval.

[TomeBinder]

If you want to right something about getting the Pope's blessing, you have my approval.

@duck55223

Awesome, thanks!

[TomeBinder]

To clear up my decision making process... I er... I literally tossed a coin. Sorry Mr. Zoldyck.

[Zoldyck]

@TomeBinder ha, no problem mate. I can't expect to always get my way :P

[Wernher]

La Grande République Révolutionaire de France (The great revolutionary republic of France)

Territories:
France, North West Africa, Indochina (?) Madagascar, Caribbean islands & some northern Italian alp territories.

Government:
The heads of France are officially the 5 directors that hold executive power while legislative powers are held by the Conseil des 500 (Council of the 500, a congress of sort) and the Conseil des Anciens (Council of the ancients, the senate of sort). However, they their powers are often put in jeopardy by the military Junta formed by the Consuls, the 3 top generals of the Republic who control the army and which the directors really have no way of controlling.

Important Characters:
-Premier Consul Jean Charles Taillard: Military genius and man of the people, has little problem swaying the masses to his opinion and force the Directoire to act like his ideas are theirs as well.

-Deuxieme Consul François Bonaparte: Grand-son of the last first consul, he is popular but some see him as just a name without any experience. He is eager to show the world some tricks his mighty ancestor didn't bother to teach outside the family.

-Troisieme Consul François Denis Tronchet: No one really knows him outside the high level administration, but he is as influent or more than any Directeur or Consul, a silent clerk that is responsible for foreign politics when it doesn't involve the military or decorum, the one who orchestrated the disposal of the Madagascar nobility and who managed to stop the war with Japan and Britain over Indochina without it even starting.

-Directeur Bernard de Montesquieu: Seen by many other powers as a menace for peace, he is well known for using foreign diplomacy to serve interior motives. He doesn't want war like most people think, but he wants to portray the outside like a menace to keep France united against an enemy, create an image of it standing alone against the world, so to keep his power as absolute as possible.

-Directeur Robert Monpas: Also called 'The Guillotine', he is Montesquieu's shadow and a key factor in the current directors maintaining power for so long. Working with Tronchet, he makes sure to silence dissidence with the help of 'Madame Guillotine' by acusing people left and right of being anti-democratic counter revolutionaries.

-Directeur Pierre Louis Godet de Châtillon: An industrial of great power and also a face for the Parti Tricolore, Montesquieu's political formation, he is the head of the world's fashion industry, making sure France has the fast cars, the beautiful dresses and in general, making sure that anything French is Chique. He doesn't care much about politics, which is why he is so useful.

Economy:
France has an inherent advantage over the rest of Europe because it has its largest population, it however lacks well established heavy industries like Germany and the Netherlands, the leadership likes to think that it makes France more versatile and flexible. What France does have however is a name and a reputation. Anywhere in the world, the latest Fashion is French. If you have something that is Stylish like the Italian craft but durable like the german one, you buy french french french. Every year the french break the latest speed record for the race car and develops the fastest and most expensive airship which it will then sell, but only because they have something even faster and even more stylish in the work! For the military-industrial complex however, France has been at war so much that the state controls weapon product, although it hires private engineering farms to compete for the design. The production of Blue Coal in Indochina is a state run business as well and the colonies are mercilessly exploited by the home state for their resources. France doesn't hesitate to sell anything in its arsenal to anyone and anyone can have technical blueprints of their war machines, the extra money they gather more than makes up for it... they say.

Military:
The French have earned a hard fought reputation of invincibility in land warfare after defeating countless counter revolutionary leagues set up by England and have walked through Europe so many times that even the Prussians quiver in their boots and the Russians, even if they won't admit it, would think about it twice before going to war with the French again, having survived by the skin of their teeth and seeing Moscow burned down last time.

Some however would argue that this is the french weakness. They are numerous, superbly equipped and trained, but everyone knows their tricks, they show off their weapons and tactics so much it is easy to work around them: Overwhelmingly powerful artillery with the universally best infantry rifle can lead France only so far against tanks and airships.

-Consul Taillard is convinced of the superiority of the French forces and tries to build around its proven strategies.

-Consul Bonaparte thinks that the emphasis on heavy artillery and more fire power makes the army too static. Sure Napoleon was a heavy user of artillery, but it was flying batteries. The future is in tanks and fast airplanes, mobile infantries to outflank and maneuver.

-Consul Tronchet aims to make a middle ground and doesn't concern himself with the broader affairs of the military, he however developed the 'Commando' theory, small specialized units dropped from airplanes with parachutes or inserted at night with infiltration airships.

History:
In the wake of the revolution, against all odds the Directoire managed to hold on to power, forcing Austria and Prussia into peace, making Britain fall in its shadow times and times, no one being able to stand in its path. It was a rocky road to victory and many times France proved to be its own worst enemies, coup after coup being defeated and so many people going to the guillotine. When General Bonaparte created the Consulate to rein in the military the Directoire was found to be a convenient placeholder so the population could have someone to blame for the hardship they had to endure, Napoleon being the proud hero defending France from the foreigners while the Directory were the blundering and corrupt idiots that didn't know how much the high taxes were hurting.

After the disaster in Russia the regime was almost toppled but Bonaparte came back triumphant if only barely, intimidating the European powers as he walked on Berlin -again- and menaced Russia that it would go to Saint-Peterborough to set it on fire next. There was of course a lot of backdoor diplomacy to make the peace but it still looked like France had spat in the face of the world and as the French say that 'Only God himself could send the French back to France.' As the defeat in Russia was caused more because of the attrition than any real Russian military might.

In the years after France continued its constant meddling in European politics and colony building going to war here and there over trivial things to beat down the other powers, more to humiliate them and maintain France's reputation more than to conquer. After Napoleon died however there was some chaos as to whom would take his place as first Consul and the French were insulted when Bismarck managed to federalize the german states although without strong leadership they didn't go to war over it and when Taillard took power, the moment had passed.

Right now, the powers that be in france are aiming to antagonize everyone against the British for the next great war. Since they fail at this badly in Europe because of their habit of marching on the capital of lesser powers all the time, they look to the new Asian powers for alliances. If they will succeed is another thing entirely as they consider the Yellow Skins to be inferior by pure racism, saying that they could roll over China in a month if so they wished.

[Zoldyck]

Finally! Someone took France! :P

[Alfhedil]

As a question, when was this war with Austria? Eisenkreis has not been in any notable wars since their formation, and Austria hasn't been around since early 1600.

[Wernher]

Napoleonic and revolutionary wars, 1790-1815, plus I'd say that France would have strong armed Eisenkreis from time to time if Eisenkreis got involved in European politics: Wars in the balkans, Italy and so forth.

Unless you tell me that it would have had absolutely no involvement in the revolutionary era and would have mostly stayed isolationist afterward.

[null123]

Wehrner, my issue is with the whole rifles with the stoppig power of a small cannon. that seems a bit OP.

Other then that it is good, although Indochina is debtable as France only had a smalllsmall territory there. Its more likely Dai Nam pushed them out.

[Wernher]

I can change it, no problem. I envisioned this as the 1870 french army, a very, very good rifle in the form of the Chassepot rifle, easily outclassing every other rifle, but at the cost of having some inherant weaknesses in other parts of its army. France's failure were not technological, far from it, it was their doctrine. But I can downgrade as needed.

As for Indochina, unless Dai Nam went full scale industrialization (In which case I hardly see how the dutch or anyone really could have Asian colonies by that logic), I'd think there would still be a french presence there involving some vietnam like conflict, but while a whole lot of genocide and even more attrocities. After all, my france sees itself as a ridiculously egocentric nation that thinks its the best in the entire whole wide world, to be expelled by the natives in a colony would really complex them.

May I post?

EDIT: Also, any stance on the RP regarding chemical weapons?

[Legion X51]

Quick update on the Chinese situation, I have a prototype NS in the works. I have a very brief overview I can share and receive feedback on:

After the defeat to Meiji Japan and the fall of the Qing Dynasty, the Chinese were left without a real ruler or a government strong enough to take charge. Step forward one Liu Xan-Tseng, a Chinese politician who served as ambassador to Eisenkreis-Kzechverin, who had been exposed to European ideas and ideals and thusly decided to modernise Chinese government and form a Republic of China. It was clear Imperial government was not working, particularly with the loss of Manchuria and national pride following the Sino-Japanese War. China was no longer an Empire, but a Republic, with a Chamber of Deputies elected by the people of the provinces. However, Tseng's reforms have encountered difficulties and opposition, and a bitter China still reels from the Japanese disaster, whilst it struggles to industrialise and modernise after centuries of neglect and inefficiency. Can the Tseng government unify China under republican rule, or will Imperialist reactionaries restore the imperial throne? Can China industrialise and become a world power? And can China restore relations with it's neighbours, and further afield, the European powers?

The fate of the Chinese republican experiment is uncertain.

[Wernher]

Democracy! Let liberty enlighten the world my friend, France stands with you! Probably!

[Alfhedil]

Napoleonic and revolutionary wars, 1790-1815, plus I'd say that France would have strong armed Eisenkreis from time to time if Eisenkreis got involved in European politics: Wars in the balkans, Italy and so forth.

Unless you tell me that it would have had absolutely no involvement in the revolutionary era and would have mostly stayed isolationist afterward.

@Wernher

Apologies for not getting back to you sooner, but I wanted to be at a computer and be able to put things down properly without having to cut things short.

Biggest thing to touch on, was the dissatisfaction among the nobles with the Von Habsburgs' almost magical ability to throw Austria into almost every conflict in Europe, and the Thirty Years War was really the last straw for the removal of their power. Following the overthrow of the archduke when Bohemia became Emperor, Baldur Von Eisenkrern arose to the throne and executed sweeping changes among the government of Austria, changing it to the nation of Eisenkreis and putting forth a new policy of minimal involvement in the wars of their neighbors. Granted, this only extended to wars of aggression, and Eisenkreis would still rise to defend their neighbors in case of invasion, but it set a precedent for the growing nation. Later during the Revolutionary Wars, Dietrich Von Eisenkern would have held true to this policy, only becoming involved in the wars if they came to Eisenkreis soil. Now on the other hand, if revolutionary forces sought assistance from Eisenkreis, they would have given it in the form of equipment, or if relations between the two were particularly good, then they would have put troops there to assist as well. Despite being a long-standing monarchy, the Von Eisenkerns have always been ones for the stability of the European region, and if a revolution was aimed to bring stability to France, they would not have opposed it. Besides that, the French would have found it rather difficult to strong-arm Eisenkreis to war, as they are notoriously stubborn to move from their position.

As a last note, despite not being involved in any major wars beyond their immediate area, that does not mean isolation, as Eisenkreis has ties with the entire region, no matter how insignificant they may be, and freely trades with their cultural neighbors of Germany. Not only that, but they do trade with the Asian region, and very likely would have some kind of economical presence in the Americas(With Gowia's blessing of course).

Apologies if this seems a bit confrontational, just trying to clear things up a bit. If you do wish to have interactions with my nation in the past, then by all means, send me a PM and we can set things up.

[Wernher]

Of course, thank your for the reply.

First, I think I can call with certitude the revolution to have been very, veeeery destabilizing for Europe as a whole, the French monarchy, having ruled for a thousand years, being replaced by peasants with dangerous ideas about kings and emperors having no right to rule over the masses.

In my opinion I'd think the revolutionary fervor would have spread to Eisenkreis as it did the rest of Europe but I can see the French interpreting this 'non interventionism' as weakness and a sign of submission, leaving Eisenkreis alone, if for the wrong reasons. It would also fit in history as to why the French survived without having its butt kicked all over Europe at the end of the war, without having to take care of Austria-Hungary, that leaves a lot more room to kick Prussian butt.

I do not know if I have a monopoly over the whole revolution business but from what I think, since you cover Austria-Hungary and this country was known for being a racial and minority powder keg as it was still an empire covering many minorities, that even if France didn't intervene the revolutions would have rocked the boat a lot in the form of smaller ethnic based revolutions in the balkans for freedom from oppressors.

By all means send me a PM if you find it is needed, but I tend to speak about this in the OOC so others can add their inputs.

My ideas, although entirely up to you to accept or modify, would be as follow:

1: A major war with France that occurred during the revolutionary era, caused by France acting paternalist in Europe and wanting to weaken Eisenkreis for the simple sake of weakening it so that if it isn't a menace now, so that it never will be (No matter how isolationist you might be, you are still a big chunk of territory with a lot of manpower.) The aim of that war would be to 'free the minorities of the balkans' and thus transform Eisenkreis in yet another minor german state with no power in itself. I'd like for France to have won, but that victory could have had no meaning, a white peace with terms that Eisenkreis never actually followed but that allowed France to say that they had won and turn their attentions elsewhere. (Exemple: France forces Eisenkreis to have a parliament... which fills itself to the brim with royalists at the first election since they think the King does a good job rather)

2: The idea of maintaining the status-quo in Europe gets Eisenkreis to remain neutral and pressure smaller german states to do so as well, with this the coalition collapses and Britain and only watch France from the other side of the Channel and not do a thing. Since the entire Europe doesn't league itself against France, France doesn't have much reason to go berserk and mainly concentrate its hate at the british (like always). Although I'll admit I think this is a boring idea.

3: Napoleon tears Eisenkreis a new one and crumbles the entire thing into small republics easy to manage from Paris, the Eisenkreis nobility is temporarily exiled. When Napoleon dies and France almost goes in civil war, the nobility uses the distraction to make a triumphant return to their homeland and reform Eisenkreis without much opposition after a short interregnum, even more popular.

Overall, I seek a feel of France being the big bad boogeyman of the Monarchies across Europe, the reason why Kings and Emperors remember they can't treat their people like peasants as the world's greatest Guillotine exporter is just a stone throw away and that in general, the very existence of France would be an insult to the monarch of the world since it tells their peasants that if the taxes are too high, you can drag out the nobles in the dirt.

That and human rights, anti-slavery, equality movement and all that jazz being encouraged by the ultra liberal elite of France which, because of its cultural center of europe status, it constantly spreads around itself.

[null123]

Actually do to points made to me by people I shall not name, I am actually very wary of you Wernher. Your app seems to portray France as extremely powerful, that really needs to be corrected. I dont think France would be that big in Europe.

[Legion X51]

I am somewhat concerned about this French state.

[Wernher]

Actually do to points made to me by people I shall not name, I am actually very wary of you Wernher. Your app seems to portray France as extremely powerful, that really needs to be corrected. I dont think France would be that big in Europe.

@duck55223

You know, that is slightly insulting.

Well then, what would France be.

[Alfhedil]

Of course, thank your for the reply.

First, I think I can call with certitude the revolution to have been very, veeeery destabilizing for Europe as a whole, the French monarchy, having ruled for a thousand years, being replaced by peasants with dangerous ideas about kings and emperors having no right to rule over the masses.

In my opinion I'd think the revolutionary fervor would have spread to Eisenkreis as it did the rest of Europe but I can see the French interpreting this 'non interventionism' as weakness and a sign of submission, leaving Eisenkreis alone, if for the wrong reasons. It would also fit in history as to why the French survived without having its butt kicked all over Europe at the end of the war, without having to take care of Austria-Hungary, that leaves a lot more room to kick Prussian butt.

I do not know if I have a monopoly over the whole revolution business but from what I think, since you cover Austria-Hungary and this country was known for being a racial and minority powder keg as it was still an empire covering many minorities, that even if France didn't intervene the revolutions would have rocked the boat a lot in the form of smaller ethnic based revolutions in the balkans for freedom from oppressors.

@Wernher

I highly doubt this "revolutionary fervor" would have spread to Eisenkreis or Kzechverin, since both states came about in a revolution against the prior ruling caste. Thing to note is that if they were to go in against Prussia, Eisenkreis could have been called in to assist, and then your war would have stalled there in the Germanic region. That's fully up to Taniel, however, as he plays the German Empire.

1: A major war with France that occurred during the revolutionary era, caused by France acting paternalist in Europe and wanting to weaken Eisenkreis for the simple sake of weakening it so that if it isn't a menace now, so that it never will be (No matter how isolationist you might be, you are still a big chunk of territory with a lot of manpower.) The aim of that war would be to 'free the minorities of the balkans' and thus transform Eisenkreis in yet another minor german state with no power in itself. I'd like for France to have won, but that victory could have had no meaning, a white peace with terms that Eisenkreis never actually followed but that allowed France to say that they had won and turn their attentions elsewhere. (Exemple: France forces Eisenkreis to have a parliament... which fills itself to the brim with royalists at the first election since they think the King does a good job rather)

This is a decent proposal, though at this point in time, Eisenkreis is a stubborn and stuck-in state, much like Switzerland, and invading them would inflict some terrible losses upon the French. Beyond that, unsure why they would be seeking to "free the minorities of the balkans" as Kzechverin has largely been warring and bringing things upon themselves, through their attacks against the Polish, and even two separate wars against the Ottomans. Back to the point, I could see this as the most likely of your proposals, though more with a truce being struck since one side could not gain ground, and the other one refused to leave their own lands.

2: The idea of maintaining the status-quo in Europe gets Eisenkreis to remain neutral and pressure smaller german states to do so as well, with this the coalition collapses and Britain and only watch France from the other side of the Channel and not do a thing. Since the entire Europe doesn't league itself against France, France doesn't have much reason to go berserk and mainly concentrate its hate at the british (like always). Although I'll admit I think this is a boring idea.

Like the first, this one is very likely to have happened, especially with Eisenkreis holding title of Holy Roman Emperor for what it maters.

3: Napoleon tears Eisenkreis a new one and crumbles the entire thing into small republics easy to manage from Paris, the Eisenkreis nobility is temporarily exiled. When Napoleon dies and France almost goes in civil war, the nobility uses the distraction to make a triumphant return to their homeland and reform Eisenkreis without much opposition after a short interregnum, even more popular.

This one is highly unlikely, due mostly to the military power of Eisenkreis/Bohemia/Kzechverin, and because even /if/ they were to lose so handily as you propose, they would never accept such a peace. The region would be in turmoil, and consistently attempting to throw off French rule. When/if the two nations were to reform, they would also be completely different than what I've already created here, and honestly, that's pretty off-putting just for the sake of past interaction.

I'm not against past interaction, in fact I would encourage anyone to do so if they think they could do something interesting with an event between their nation and Eisenkreis/Kzechverin. What I am against, however, and the reason why I initially stated my objection, is to involve me without saying anything first.

[Wernher]

I am somewhat concerned about this French state.

@Legion X51

Well, you know, that kind of was the entire point. Have an enemy that's also a credible threat that would make people think they have to work together to defeat it.

Because I read the entire IC and right now we have the Netherlands in good terms with Germany, which are themselves in good terms with Naples and Eiseinkreis which is neutral above all. I personally think it's boring and since both Germany and the Netherlands have stated they have a dislike of the french, I feel like they would maybe even appreciate a France that could at least put up a good fight before rolling over.

_____________________

"I highly doubt this "revolutionary fervor" would have spread to Eisenkreis or Kzechverin, since both states came about in a revolution against the prior ruling caste. Thing to note is that if they were to go in against Prussia, Eisenkreis could have been called in to assist, and then your war would have stalled there in the Germanic region. That's fully up to Taniel, however, as he plays the German Empire."

Historically, people hate monarch. Why? Because even if the one holding the leash is more gentle than the previous one, you're still a slave. I don't mean to be insulting in any ways mind you, but I'm a person that likes for there to be action, inside factions and sometimes be your own worst enemy, intrigue and all that.

"This is a decent proposal, though at this point in time, Eisenkreis is a stubborn and stuck-in state, much like Switzerland, and invading them would inflict some terrible losses upon the French. Beyond that, unsure why they would be seeking to "free the minorities of the balkans" as Kzechverin has largely been warring and bringing things upon themselves, through their attacks against the Polish, and even two separate wars against the Ottomans. Back to the point, I could see this as the most likely of your proposals, though more with a truce being struck since one side could not gain ground, and the other one refused to leave their own lands."

The Swiss were conquered by Napoleon and Austria, who would have a significantly more important buildup IRL than you due to the reasons Eisenkreis deposed them, meaning being extremely warlike and having an army of hardened Veterans, was also defeated, many times. No nation is unconquerable. Again, I think it's just a matter of perspective on what we like on nations. I like more organic things were people and nations rise and fall while your view on such things seem to tend to like more static things. I can respect that mind you.

"This one is highly unlikely, due mostly to the military power of Eisenkreis/Bohemia/Kzechverin, and because even /if/ they were to lose so handily as you propose, they would never accept such a peace. The region would be in turmoil, and consistently attempting to throw off French rule. When/if the two nations were to reform, they would also be completely different than what I've already created here, and honestly, that's pretty off-putting just for the sake of past interaction."

Everyone fights the invaders. The thing is that France used puppet governments and generally the argument that you aren't ruled by someone who never worked the fields before and that your taxes don't go on supporting their lavish lifestyles while you toil away tends to calm discidents. Again, we have different views on that.

BUT NONE OF THIS MATTERS. My idea was scrapped as you can read above, so if you want to continue this, it will be an intellectual exercise and it won't matter as I'll have to rebuild France from scratch.

[Alfhedil]

I'm going to leave it be then, but like I said, if you want to have some kind of interactions with either of my nations, please, say something first and talk it over with me.