[OOC] Arena Chat Thread

[Innue]

Make the character then that appeases me that is low tier, that has abilities that are easily accessible to all low tier characters.

The required acceleration to dodge the bullet at 10 feet given a 2 inch lethal zone (this is only dodging the kill effect of the shot) is 81.28 meters per second from a 0 initial velocity.

You have to already be moving at 90+ mph to avoid the shot to the side assume no lead by the gun wielder. Both assume that the individual in question maintains a 120 times the normal reaction time of a human.

And dear heavens, just imagine if you were running at them when they fired the shot.

The speeds in your example are not something I classify as low tier either. That is incredibly powerful. I've also stated that speed is incredibly undervalued on here in terms of potency. This pushes people into being forced to have equal speed and reaction time to match or just be overwhelmed by sheer speed because of the generated kinetic force.

This still also assumes the gun wielder is ONLY a gun wielder and has no other augmentation.

[Skallagrim]

Did I just get drafted?

@Rilla

First round pick.

[DJAtomika]

Oh it's on Skall. Hehe. Excited!

[LeeRoy]

It's really not, on the 'undervalued' note. Trust me, I argue against the "Speed's the greatest stat." Thing.

And besides, I'll give a point blank character who can survive a bullet at low tier and doesn't even need to move faster than 120 mph. Anyone whose build suggests cat like acceleration, who can accelerate from zero to some odd mph I'd say at about 3x the speed of humans. Which is visibly obvious when you see a cat bolt when surprised, as well as the seemingly impossible correction while they're falling through the air. (Landing on their feet.)

As well, heightened reflexes. At 120x human reflexes. Not unreasonable for a twink build like this to have, seeing as they have no other noteworthy ability than being fast and agile.

With this character being wholly aware that they're about to be shot, they would be prepared to move. A flash of light, their reflexes kick in, they shift their center of weight to the side and push away. The shot misses them by about an inch or so, and they're able to immediately counter attack because they're able to accelerate again once they stop moving.

To be perfectly clear, the character I'm describing is a hyper-sentient cat that can run at 120 mph.

[Innue]

It's really not, on the 'undervalued' note. Trust me, I argue against the "Speed's the greatest stat." Thing.

And besides, I'll give a point blank character who can survive a bullet wound at low tier and doesn't even need to move faster than 120 mph. Anyone whose build suggests cat like acceleration, who can accelerate from zero to some odd mph I'd say at about 3x the speed of humans. Which is visibly obvious when you see a cat bolt when surprised, as well as the seemingly impossible correction while they're falling through the air. (Landing on their feet.)

As well, heightened reflexes. At 120x human reflexes. Not unreasonable for a twink build like this to have, seeing as they have no other noteworthy ability than being fast and agile.

With this character being wholly aware that they're about to be shot, they would be prepared to move. A flash of light, their reflexes kick in, they shift their center of weight to the side and push away. The shot misses them by about an inch or so, and they're able to immediately counter attack because they're able to accelerate again once they stop moving.

To be perfectly clear, the character I'm describing is a hyper-sentient cat that can run at 120 mph.

@LeeRoy

Three times human acceleration isn't enough and that is only when they are not moving towards the target. Move towards the target and you lower it. Try at least 10. And this, in itself, creates another host of problems in terms of the ability.

Either way, you've restricted the options for viable combatants for a gun wielder (by virtue of just having the item) with no other abilities to utilizing specific abilities - abilities I would not necessarily classify as low tier abilities, especially given the reaction calculation I was using was incredibly in favor of the person who wasn't wielding the gun. All of the math was done to give an edge to that character. This reinforces my point that they lack effective counterplay.

So essentially, you've further demonstrated guns require very specific defenses to deal with them. The moment you lack any one of those traits, you are unable to compete with them by virtue of the weapon, which is not something I classify as low tier or having reasonable counterplay. Looking at the power of these items, in terms of tier differences, should be done with no abilities other than a natural human with one wielding a sword and the other wielding the gun. Obviously the gun is rightly classified in a much higher tier.

Still not going to fight gun users, still not going to agree they are appropriate in low tier combat.

[LeeRoy]

Man this stuff constantly happens, like, monthly.

Someone brings up something that wasn't a problem before they bring it up, and make it into a problem.

[Innue]

Man this stuff constantly happens, like, monthly.

Someone brings up something that wasn't a problem before they bring it up, and make it into a problem.

@LeeRoy

This is the kind of response that doesn't encourage newcomers to participate in the Arena because apparently different opinions are 'problems'.

And, for the record, a problem can exist even if it isn't acknowledged. If it is truly a problem or not was something I thought we were discussing.

[Rilla]

<Snipped quote by Rilla>

First round pick.

@Skallagrim

is it ranked or nah?

[LeeRoy]

This isn't a matter of opinion, this is a matter of:

Everyone understands the absurdity of superhuman abilities, even with numbers or lack of numbers behind them. And saying that guns are superior to Captain America x 5 characters because they have the potential to instantly kill them ruins the fun of it. Guns aren't high tier because nobody wants a fight to end instantly with a single gunshot.

It wasn't a problem before, because it was fun before.

[Rilla]

so back when I was efedding, I had a tag team named Blacklist Royalty, a prince gimmick. One was named Prince Alex Foyt, and the other Prince Chamberlain.

Today I was reading the roster for Paragon Pro Wrestling, a company that has its product debuting on the Pop TV channel(formerly TV Guide), has a tag champion named Alex Chamberlain.

[Innue]

You've made it clear that not only do you disagree with what I've stated, but that it isn't welcome - which is actually why I (and I know a few others) avoided this community for a long time.

I still do not agree with that being a balancing metric. Relying on someone just keeping it fun doesn't really mean it is fair from a competitive standpoint. Fun is fine. Fun is great when it mingles with competition, but I do like it when things are fair and balanced and creates a matchup of skill rather than one of who didn't take advantage of something they could do. That is when I think combat is the best.

[Skallagrim]

so back when I was efedding, I had a tag team named Blacklist Royalty, a prince gimmick. One was named Prince Alex Foyt, and the other Prince Chamberlain.

Today I was reading the roster for Paragon Pro Wrestling, a company that has its product debuting on the Pop TV channel(formerly TV Guide), has a tag champion named Alex Chamberlain.

@Rilla

Wait! The TV Guide channel is no longer the TV Guide channel? Ugh it's like when they changed SciFi to SyFy and ruined a good portion of it.

[Rilla]

yeah, i think they did.

also thats true. I really only watch SD(moving to USA) and FaceOff there now.

[ImportantNobody]

The way I see it, people just need to be more comfortable in saying, "you simply missed" or "it hit me a lot but in non vital spots so it's fine, people survive with multiples shots in real life all the time" and let that be the end of it in order to balance guns out.

[LeeRoy]

You're really trying this full on: "LeeRoy's the devil, he doesn't agree with my opinion so he must reject all those who enter and try to voice their opinion. He's intentionally alienating a subgroup because of an opinion that someone else has."

Except the real truth is:
LeeRoy finds the discussion about whether or not guns are balanced actually stupid. Even if I disagree with you; My opinion, and by association your opinion, don't fuckin' matter. Nobody has to agree with what anyone else has to say.

Nobody has to agree with anybody.
Being offended just means you're not in charge of your own emotions.
Censorship is stupid.

And arguing is really just a method for people to vent frustrations about a topic all while Demonizing the person they're arguing with.

Alright?

We won't agree on this, and I'm literally the last person to say this, I love arguing.

But we should finish this argument now, because it's just going to keep circling into itself.

[Rilla]

i'm fine with that, but youll run into people who don't take the damage into account for anything.

[ImportantNobody]

I like gun battles only if I have a gun, in general, although I think Clockwork was indeed a very fair character even if he could curbstomp Evvie, it's not like he'd curbstomp everyone without a gun, especially not every time.

In general I'll stick to non gun related battles if I can help it. Raln, my character in the tournament, is one of the few I have for his power level that I feel comfortable with who can fight gun users decently enough without a gun of his own. I actually think he could beat a tank if I get really strategic and lucky with him. I'll only use characters like him for tournaments with gun users allowed.

[LeeRoy]

I like guns.
I have nothing against guns.

But

I see it like this:
Lower Low: Bows, Weak Magic
Low: Handguns, Average Magic
Upper Low: SMGs, Above Average Magic
Lower Inter: Rifles, Quality Magic
Inter: High Powered Rifles, Powerful Magic
Upper Inter: Explosives, Greater Magic
Lower High: High Power Explosives, Superb Greater Magic
High: High-Tech Science Fiction Weapons, Wizard/Sorcerer Level Magic
Upper High: Fucking Nukes, Exceptionally Powerful Grand Wizard/Sorcerer Supreme Magic

[Innue]

LeeRoy, your one response is why the Arena community can come across as insular.

I don't think anything negative about you. I just think your most recent posts have come across as incredibly unwelcoming. It's also something I expressed with others (Rilla among them) prior to round one of the tournament.

You don't need to agree with me, but I would appreciate my opinions not being classified as merely creating problems. I'm not at all offended, which is an entirely different kettle of fish. Trust me, you'll know if you actually offend me.

There is an incredible opportunity right now for RPG's Arena Community to grow. I would like to ensure nothing is done to detract from that.

[DJAtomika]

<Snipped quote by Skallagrim>

is it ranked or nah?

@Rilla

Probably unranked. I'm not confident enough to do ranked yet. XD