[OOC] Digimon: Digital Monsters- Pillars of Blood (Digimon d6; Hard Drive Catacomb v1.0)

[Lugia]

What I'm getting at is that with the current system, it's almost idiotic to invest in HP/MP, as their growth, and final stats will be more or less determined by the dice.

Let's give an example...
the highest bonus you can get at stage 1 is +2
the highest dice you can roll is 6, so...
someone with 0 VIT can have up to 6... and someone with 10 VIT can have as low as 3. Keep in mind that these are stats at generation that could have been spent one for one on ANY other stat, so, that effectively makes that 10 VIT digimon MUCH weaker than the 0 VIT digimon, as it has 10 stat points distributed somewhere that the 10 VIT digimon didn't invest in.

The highest at stage 2 is +4
the highest dice is 12...
It ACTUALLY GETS WORSE here. Think about it, a digimon with 20 VIT can have 6 HP, whereas another with 0 VIT can have 12, again, these are stats that didn't get distributed anywhere else, and in this case they're also spending combat exp, which of course means that the 20 VIT digimon is getting absolutely nothing for their stat investment.

With stage 3, the max bonus is +7
the highest dice is 18.
Literally, the dice are about 3x more powerful than stat investments in these earlier stages, as demonstrated here, and earlier. As I've said, a high-VIT digimon can have 10 HP, whereas a 0 VIT digimon can have, as described, more. That means that, while this digimon worked on VIT, the other one was investing in power, force, or speed, and thus deals more damage, and, thanks to the stat rolls, can TAKE more damage, as well.

Stage 4's max bonus is +10
the highest dice is 24.
That means that someone with low VIT can possible have almost twice the amount of HP as someone with max, or in this case, 50 VIT. The lowest HP a high-VIT digimon can have at this point is 14... whereas the low-to-no-VIT digimon can have up to 24. Think about that for a moment, there are plenty of rolls higher than 14 on four d6's. Investing in VIT, just due to the math I'm calculating... is almost worthless, even at stage 4.

Stage 5's max bonus is +15
the highest dice is 30.
While it's getting a bit better, it's still somewhat likely that a digimon with 0 VIT can have higher HP than a digimon whose entire point WAS TO HAVE HIGH HP. I didn't do the math, because I figured you had it all figured out, but these calculations are pretty depressing for anyone who wanted to invest in HP, but have no luck in rolling dice. There are many, many rolls higher than 18 on 5 d6's... with the max dice being exactly double the max bonus... well... it's kinda luck-based, and it's the most important stat in any game.

Stage 6's max bonus is +20
the highest dice is 36
Well, looks like it FINALLY evens out to where there's actually only a slim chance for a high-VIT digimon to have less HP than a low-VIT digimon... nonetheless, I assume we're going to be doing most of our RP in the middle stages, saving the final stage for just about the final battle... at this point, there really shouldn't be a chance for a 0-VIT digimon to have more HP than a MAX-VIT (in this case, 100) digimon, but the chance is fairly slim, with the min HP of said MAX-VIT being 26, with only ten rolls higher than that on the dice, themselves.

Sorry, but I do agree with Digizel, we shouldn't roll for HP. Maybe on our first stage, but none after that. We COULD have a minimum HP for the stages, have the HP add to that, and then add your new VIT bonus. (adding more as you invest more). I hope you don't think I'm being rude, or hating the RP, I'm really not, I'd like to see where this goes, plot-wise, and character-wise, as well... I'm just trying to provide some constructive criticism to better improve the system, and hopefully make the stats a bit more even in terms of viability.

[tobiax]

You're looking at it separately, instead of in conjunction. It's like saying it's not worth investing in offensive power because you can miss.

[Lugia]

What I'm trying to say here is that anywhere from 3/4ths to more than 1/2 of the HP you'd get via level up are from dice rolls, not investment.

Example, you can have a max total of 56 HP at stage 6, 36 of that would be from dice rolls, whereas only 20 of that is from stat investment. Sure, you gain an advantage, but if you mess up a SINGLE dice roll, all of that effort can go to waste permanently. What I'm trying to say is, with basic stats, or at least their value, investment should at least trump dice rolls IF dice rolls are present. Dice rolls should be a nice bonus, not most of your stat.

Another thing to note... a miss or two only effects one or two turns of combat. Your max HP effects several battles, and countless turns of combat. The two aren't comparable.

[Digizel]

Oh, and red flag- an athleticism of one would basically mean your character is medically feeble, or in need of support devices (oxygen tank, wheel chair, limb braces, etc.). And normally I would say that a five star intellect is mostly out of reach, being a practical doctorate, if we can mainly confine it to strategic logic and things like that, and not have it spill into like, history or biology or language, we should be fine. Only allowing it because he's a chess genius. And a five star psychology isn't necessarily safe, as it could render illogical events more damaging.

tobiax

R...really? That seems...poorly designed tbh. Why would that even be a possible situation? Like...I think that kind of rating system is awfully...bizarrely specific, for lack of a better word. What's the point in having a rating that's borderline characteristically impossible to have? Why would 1-star rank (on a 5-star rating system mind you) be such a disaster? Why does a 5-star rank get penalized for something when none of the other stats do that? None of that makes any sense to me. What's the point in allowing the player to create their own ratings if the GM will just either outright decline what was created for such weird reasons? Especially when nothing about that was ever mentioned at any point anywhere.

Why would you not just make it a simple skill ranking? It doesn't have to have equivalents to things. As in...just a proficiency rating. 1-star just meaning you're not very good at a thing and 5 meaning you're superbly good at a thing?

[tobiax]

I'm pretty sure I did put that in the rules, and because how else are you supposed to represent something like that?
The Psychology thing, which I know I've mentioned, is because a completely logical person would need time to adjust to sudden shifts in what is possible, resulting in a slight strain for a short time.

[Lugia]

Tobi, we've talked about this before with my app... it's really difficult, if not impossible to RP such extremes. Maybe a 1* Athletic rating would just mean that they can't run too fast or for very long, or can't run at all. I don't think anything would have chosen a sick kid that belongs in a hospital, especially if that thing has to do with computers, something most sick kids don't have access to all the time.

[Digizel]

"Athleticism: For matters of physical feats, such as jumping, running, swimming, climbing, carrying things, or maneuvering through rough terrain, as well as moving large objects, the Athleticism stat is key. This is a general measure of the physical strength of a human, which is rarely comparable to the strength of a Digimon."

"Psychology: A character’s Psychology rating is a reflection on their mental health. This stat is used to resist effects that fool the senses, and represents how stable the character’s perception of reality might be. Psychology ratings may take temporary penalties after disturbing events, and, with player and GM approval, permanent reductions resulting in said character being prone to moderate to radical behavioral or personality change."

Nothing here implies any of this. In fact, the way athleticism is worded sounds exactly like a 1-star rating would just mean you're not as good at doing the stuff. Not that it implies anything that extreme.

Also this line: "For each point a character has in a stat, they may roll one die when that stat may come into contest."

How does that make sense for a medically feeble person at a 1-star rank athleticism? If they're that bad off they shouldn't be able to do anything at all.

As for psychology, it actually implies to me the exact opposite of what you claim. It determines "how stable the character's perception of reality might be" which implies to me that they would be more likely to be less confused by sudden illogical changes. It says to me that they should be able to perceive the changes and adjust their thinking accordingly, because they have such a stable grasp on reality.

[tobiax]

Okay, I probably defined that stuff in-thread and forgot to put it in the book. I'll tweak it when I get a chance. I might be confusing myself on some level, but it wouldn't kill you to give Hideaki a two in Athleticism.

[Digizel]

Ah, I see. Heh. I'd appreciate that. I'm certainly not going through 13 pages of discussion. xD

Well...no, it certainly isn't a big deal. But it still doesn't really make any sense to me to have such extremes as the 1 and 5 star ranks. You could instead just have the maximum rank be 5 and stuff, but have the GM of each individual campaign clarify what that rank indicates. So in a game like this, where the characters shouldn't be any older than a young adult, 5 being like having a doctorate in intelligence wouldn't make sense considering my own character can't possibly have that kind of rank, who spent his entire life studying under the greatest tutors his parents could buy. But in a different campaign, like if the characters are supposed to be older, 5 being similar to having a doctorate would work and make sense.

[tobiax]

Yeah, I dun goofed.

Okay, maybe I'm house ruling it or overassuming or something. Basically, you don't get a five star without it being backed up by your bio/description/history stuff. Well, what a one star stat is is totally house ruled on my part for this rp. I'm not saying you need to change anything, but consider this- what would be the effects of his parents pressuring him into a high stakes career from a young age, and pushing him in two different directions of specialization?

Also, on a lighter note, what are Digimon you would prefer your Botamon to Digivolve to, and what are some that (apart from the bad ones) you would rather not have? For example, aside from the obvious, even Agumon can become Cantarumon or Meramon,(As well as Growlmon and Igamon, which all fit Virus Buster, except for Meramon, but he's the fire wall, so it could easily be made an exception) among other things, and there's no guarantee that a Koromon will Digivolve into an Agumon.

[Digizel]

Heh. Alright, that's perfectly fine with me. I'll take another look at them and figure out what I want to change. And actually, the two professions are not that different. Lawyers and prosecutors receive the same education. And many attorneys switch professions a few times in their careers (aside from areas of specialty in terms of lawyers, such as criminal defense vs. probate, etc). The career that you choose mostly depends on availability/competition in the area as well as your own moral decision (catch criminals vs potentially defending the falsely accused, for example). The only issue that would be presented to him, aside from the obvious academic challenges, would be the family pressure of choosing a side.

Hm.... That's a good question. I've always had a tough time deciding my Digimon's evolution line. xD I think I'll go with the standard line. Mostly because there's no other way to get to the WarGreymon form, which is my favorite Mega form of his. At least not using forms that I like. So basically, Koromon > Agumon > Greymon > MetalGreymon > WarGreymon. I'd say RizeGreymon over MetalGreymon, but RizeGreymon is not associated with Virus Buster. And I'd like to keep them in the same family. Unless I get him to access the Dragon's Roar family, in which case I could choose Rize over Metal.

As for a line I particularly don't want, I'd say just about any that lead to human-like forms, like any Angemon line. I tend to never like Digimon that too closely resemble humans (with the exception of the human Spirits from the Frontier series). I mean, I don't mind them, but I would never really want to RP them. Or really many Angel digimon. I always thought they typically looked rather boring compared to animal-like or dinosaur-like designs.

[tobiax]

There's still the matter of his parents having contention about it, yeah? Unnecessary strain? Plus without peers of generational or intellectual similarity, there's a certain support network that's missing, even if his parents are absolute sugar.

That's fine, take your time. Just tell me the Digimon you don't like beforehand.

[Digizel]

Heh. Possibly, but that has little to no relevance to his level of education. The largest character flaws he possesses are that he has no real social skills with other people face to face that he hasn't known for a long time and he always looks for the rational solution...often to a fault. And since he's got a strong sense of justice due to his uprising in the legal world, the rational, most logical solution may conflict with his ideals.

Heh. I did already edit my last post as well since you weren't viewing the page at the time I started. xD You can find my words there.

[tobiax]

Okay, so, that'd either be a tick off of psychology or morale, as morale sorta deals with people as well? Either way, it'd be like moving one point from psychology or morale to athleticism, if you would.

Ah, I see it now. While technically not a Virus Buster, I don't see why RizeGreymon wouldn't be. Growlmon is, and he's a disaster waiting to happen, as well as a virus type. I can offer some leeway for WarGreymon, as in there are other forms that can Digivolve to it. Like, Meramon can become Metal Greymon, and they don't really share any Families, the former being a Nightmare Soldier/Nature Spirit, and the latter being Metal Empire.

[Digizel]

Alright, I suppose that's fair enough. I'll go ahead and make a change then. =} I think I'll go with Psychology. Mostly because he does possess a quite a few traits that goggleheads typically do in the Digimon series, so I imagine he would make a good leader if it came to that. He'd be rather attached to his friends once he's made them (since he never really had them before).

Ah, you think so? Heh. Well then, I think I'd go with the main line. My main issue is that I would like forms in which I love Rping each and every one. I could do certain other lines, but I'd have one form somewhere that I wouldn't want to use much. So I'll stick with Koromon > Agumon > Greymon > RizeGreymon > WarGreymon as my the line I'm most hopeful for. xD

[tobiax]

Ah, I see. Good, makes sense. Everything seems in order now. I have to say, I'm liking the "proto-lawyer" build. I was thinking of having character type suggestions in the rulebook, and this doesn't seem like a bad idea.

Yeah. I'll let you know, getting those specific Digimon might be pretty hard. I totally understand your feelings, but at the same time, well, Greymon's tough to get, at least in games where you can get different forms based on different stats. I won't make it impossible, but Hideaki better take good care of Botamon is all I'm saying. What are some alternate Megas that you would not be opposed to using?

And, since we're talking about it, I'd personally like to go with Pabumon-> Tanemon-> Mushroommon-> Woodmon-> Blossomon-> Gryphonmon, if I can manage that.

[Digizel]

Heh. Thanks. It's what Hide's always been, so I don't know what else to say about it. xD

Hm...yeah, I thought so. What are the rules or Digivolution here, though? I mean...it's not even mentioned in the book as far as I can tell, aside from a note on alternative DNA Digivolution methods. Does it just take the ideas from the Digimon World games and do it in a similar fashion? But mostly I want to know what triggers the Digivolution and if you'd be locked into the one line that you get? I assume so, but I know quite a few Digimon games let you alter your line quite a bit.

Alternative Megas? I'm not really sure. Haven't looked into it too much tbh. WarGreymon's always been my main RP choice, and I haven't really thought about any others in the DR or VB lines. But I can take a look. Though it's a lot harder, given the huge possible branches that can be looked into.

[tobiax]

Np.

It's triggered on level-up(because it is level-up, but there may be times when a GM has to ask them to hold back on leveling for narrative's sake, I guess), and, as of now, the requirements are DM's Choice. In this setting, no, you won't revert and achieve an alternate form, not unless you get knocked back significantly far- then it can happen, if there's a significant difference in care or the dynamic between the two. I hope that answers your question.

Well, just in case something happens where it wouldn't be necessarily War Greymon, or, if something awesome happens and I think you could get something better than WarGreymon.

[Digizel]

Ah okay, I get it. Yeah, that answers it well enough.

Hm.... There's honestly not a whole lot. xD I mean, there are a few lines that lead to some Royal Knights that I wouldn't mind, but there aren't a whole lot in these Digivolution lines that I'm not just...indifferent toward. xD There are a couple lines, like ones that blend into Veemon's or Guilmon's or Dorumon's for example. But they're all obviously less interesting for me than WarGreymon, obviously. xD "Better than WarGreymon" would be kind of tough for me, given that WarGreymon's possibly my personal favorite Digimon. xD But...I'll see how it goes. =}

[tobiax]

Oh, I totally understand. But, like, Victory Greymon, or other War Greymon variants?