[OOC] Gundam Build Fighters Akiba Academy

[Suku]

<Snipped quote by Suku>

Nah, the beams are straight like normal. It's the emitters, the guns themselves, that are mounted on swivel joints so they have a range of motion, allowing them to track targets and "drag" the beams across areas without the machine itself moving.

Also
<Snipped quote by Lunar Templar>

Except this contradicts the show? Lucas Nemesis was a top tier player and the limited energy rule was what made sure he couldn't just run rampant with his Crossbone Full Cloth going super fast, using a bunch extremely powerful weapons and having two i-field emitters to boot. Which is kind of what pretty much every unit here does, btw. His entire strategy had to take the limitations into account and use his teammates as resupply depots, and he essentially lost because he hinged his bets on being able to blitz a team before gassing out and couldn't pull through.

I mean, I understand that we're not using it because enforcing a reasonable level of particle drain and limitation would be a pain in the ass without a properly defined system. That's fine. But still, I feel this is trying to justify the change by actually contradicting the canon material rather than just saying something simple and workable like "yeah there's gonna be an old rules league and we're prepping you for that ahead of other people, feel privileged kids".

@Zero Hex

to be fair on that part it was only there for one episode we are not trying to contradict cannon plus it really wont matter much in the end since this is considered more of a AU so something like that will just have to be dealt with.

[Lunar Templar]

<Snipped quote by Suku>

Nah, the beams are straight like normal. It's the emitters, the guns themselves, that are mounted on swivel joints so they have a range of motion, allowing them to track targets and "drag" the beams across areas without the machine itself moving.

Also
<Snipped quote by Lunar Templar>

Except this contradicts the show? Lucas Nemesis was a top tier player and the limited energy rule was what made sure he couldn't just run rampant with his Crossbone Full Cloth going super fast, using a bunch extremely powerful weapons and having two i-field emitters to boot. Which is kind of what pretty much every unit here does, btw. His entire strategy had to take the limitations into account and use his teammates as resupply depots, and he essentially lost because he hinged his bets on being able to blitz a team before gassing out and couldn't pull through.

@Zero Hex

True, but that and the Try Fighter match against Tryon-3 are the only time energy management was ever mentioned as 'something to keep an eye on' and it was only used as 'plot armor' so the Try Fighters and Celestial Sphere could battle each other.

Also, keep in mind it was coming from Yuki's perspective, she's not exactly the most 'attentive' when it comes to the 'Pro Circuit'... or Gundam lore ...

[clanjos]

The Tryon-3 had 3 mechs worth of batteries. Since, you know, it was made of three mechs with their own generators. The only reason it lost was because it EVENTUALLY ran out of gas in the fight immediately after the "THIS IS WHY WE HAVE LIMITS" fight where they showed why they had limits- to prevent exactly what's happening in-game.

[Zero Hex]

Okay, I'll admit I've only just read the IC posts because I've been busy and didn't feel like posting IC at the time but uh. Okay, lemme get this straight in the OOC before I move on. @Suku is pretty much godmodding to take nothing but glancing damage at this point. I'm sorry but it is what it is. Like, I don't even have to count the GN field holding up to concentrated fire from 12 generator-powered mega particle beams plus 10 rapid fire mega particle guns all hitting it or the magic sword of perfect beam deflection that was made up on the spot to counter my approach, which even you agree was bull.

Like, you insist that your character is somehow normally dodging the equivalent of at least a few battleships' firepower turning the area around your unit into mega particles. It has been made abundantly clear that the beams are coming in from a variety of angles precisely because people tend to dodge, so rather than shoot at one spot, my character is being smart and shooting at the area and moving them into the Masurao. Even if this were not the case, you are somehow not being touched by 10 machineguns firing on you while you move to cover. I want you to take a second and realize how ridiculous this is. 10 machineguns. One is enough for supressive fire.

You need actual magic for 10 machineguns blasting at you, with increased accuracy because 4 monoeyes which is listed on the CS, to have no effect and not land a single shot as you flee. 10 rapid fire, reactor-fed mega particle guns. The normal type sink battleships with ease, they are that level of firepower. Toning it down to favor saturation should not be taken to mean they'll just glance off. Hiding behind rubble, which was taken literally from my post mentioning a wall to block, shouldn't help, because these are 12 actual battleship grade or close cannons plus 10 mega particle machineguns firing at it. Rubble would be atomized instantly, beams are used for this reason.

I'm sorry if this bothers you but at this point it's blatantly and unfairly ignoring and completely nullifying the one thing the gunpla you approved is made to do with a handwave. I stress the "one thing" bit because you'll notice it has a couple of silly extra gimmicks, but it's built to rely on its guns. It doesn't have any other machines' signature weapons or technologies strapped on, nor any super modes, or funnels, or super I-fields or anything of the sort. I don't plan on magically revealing a new superweapon either. Is this how things are going to go? Just, freely ignore other people's abilities and make up your own on the spot?

Should I just create new units with ever-stacking win buttons after every battle? It's fine if people want something with a ton of gimmicks but I shouldn't have to tack extra ones on because people don't want weapons to damage their machines. That a player is already ignoring a character's special attack and taking just "paint damage" then doing a whole lot of assumptions to magically catch on to a machine going ridiculously fast in a straight line by using "shortcuts" in space doesn't bode well for those who don't want to godmod and constantly add new powers. That the GM seems to encourage a behavior that is generally frowned upon is even worse.

[Lunar Templar]

The Tryon-3 had 3 mechs worth of batteries. Since, you know, it was made of three mechs with their own generators. The only reason it lost was because it EVENTUALLY ran out of gas in the fight immediately after the "THIS IS WHY WE HAVE LIMITS" fight where they showed why they had limits- to prevent exactly what's happening in-game.

@clanjos

no, it lost because the plot required it to.

By all rights the final battle should have been the Crossbone FC VS the Tryon-3.

[mcpop9]

@Zero Hexin my defense, he was lucky i gave him the hit. with a target as small as a head and all of the structures raising up higher than it, also coupled with the fact it's traveling at these apparently ludicrous speeds, you'd need to be a newtype to accurately target a strike like that. Also, it wasn't an attempt, they just said "it hit" without it being an attempt, had it been as such i would have given far more credit than "just the paint" but if they want to play it as an auto hit, then they're getting exactly what they got.

And it's not wild assumptions. If you have a drag racer (which is what that suit's equivalent would be) going against something more akin to a rally car, maneuvering such as described, the agile suit will gain ground over the straight line suit, which was described as to just keep kicking people in the back of the head (because everyone is guaranteed to not be in a single straight line and he specifically mentioned back, which implies that he is maneuvering behind these suits). It's not assumptions, they're conclusions made upon info being supplied. That and "it's just blatantly untrackable, lol" is almost as bad as the power gaming hit. you're flying away form me and the back of your suit is lit up by a stupidly large amount of thrusters, you're going to be traceable on several sensors.

[Lunar Templar]

Should I just create new units with ever-stacking win buttons after every battle? It's fine if people want something with a ton of gimmicks but I shouldn't have to tack extra ones on because people don't want weapons to damage their machines. That a player is already ignoring a character's special attack and taking just "paint damage" then doing a whole lot of assumptions to magically catch on to a machine going ridiculously fast in a straight line by using "shortcuts" in space doesn't bode well for those who don't want to godmod and constantly add new powers. That the GM seems to encourage a behavior that is generally frowned upon is even worse.

@Zero Hex

They also auto hit them.

I don't care how good you think your (insert what ever here) is, you don't get to auto hit other player. Period.

ESPECIALLY if said hit would cause significant damage. Like, ya know, taking off some ones head.

OR killing them outright, like your basically say you should have been able to do.

[clanjos]

@Lunar Templar
Well, yeah, but let's be honest, the Tryon 3 team deserved to be the protags.

@mcpop9
Your mech was holding still for several seconds charging its super fuck-you beam as you berated people for using cover in a firefight. That's plenty of time to line up a kick. In fact, I'm surprised nobody else decided to take advantage of the situation.

The mech isn't undetectable to, say, SONAR, LADAR, minovsky detection, and... well, pretty much anything that ISN'T visual detection and RADAR. I wasn't aware that thermals were included in the typical gunpla sensor suite, so that's my bad.

Again: There is no shortcut for a straight line. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Short of actual, literal teleportation, you can't have a shorter path than a straight line. This is a fundamental constant of reality.

On a side note, this is the extreme result of such a kick in the series that inspired the Kuuga Custom. I elected NOT to have it turn mechs into thermonuclear devices. :P

[Suku]

Okay, I'll admit I've only just read the IC posts because I've been busy and didn't feel like posting IC at the time but uh. Okay, lemme get this straight in the OOC before I move on. @Suku is pretty much godmodding to take nothing but glancing damage at this point. I'm sorry but it is what it is. Like, I don't even have to count the GN field holding up to concentrated fire from 12 generator-powered mega particle beams plus 10 rapid fire mega particle guns all hitting it or the magic sword of perfect beam deflection that was made up on the spot to counter my approach, which even you agree was bull.

Like, you insist that your character is somehow normally dodging the equivalent of at least a few battleships' firepower turning the area around your unit into mega particles. It has been made abundantly clear that the beams are coming in from a variety of angles precisely because people tend to dodge, so rather than shoot at one spot, my character is being smart and shooting at the area and moving them into the Masurao. Even if this were not the case, you are somehow not being touched by 10 machineguns firing on you while you move to cover. I want you to take a second and realize how ridiculous this is. 10 machineguns. One is enough for supressive fire.

You need actual magic for 10 machineguns blasting at you, with increased accuracy because 4 monoeyes which is listed on the CS, to have no effect and not land a single shot as you flee. 10 rapid fire, reactor-fed mega particle guns. The normal type sink battleships with ease, they are that level of firepower. Toning it down to favor saturation should not be taken to mean they'll just glance off. Hiding behind rubble, which was taken literally from my post mentioning a wall to block, shouldn't help, because these are 12 actual battleship grade or close cannons plus 10 mega particle machineguns firing at it. Rubble would be atomized instantly, beams are used for this reason.

I'm sorry if this bothers you but at this point it's blatantly and unfairly ignoring and completely nullifying the one thing the gunpla you approved is made to do with a handwave. I stress the "one thing" bit because you'll notice it has a couple of silly extra gimmicks, but it's built to rely on its guns. It doesn't have any other machines' signature weapons or technologies strapped on, nor any super modes, or funnels, or super I-fields or anything of the sort. I don't plan on magically revealing a new superweapon either. Is this how things are going to go? Just, freely ignore other people's abilities and make up your own on the spot?

Should I just create new units with ever-stacking win buttons after every battle? It's fine if people want something with a ton of gimmicks but I shouldn't have to tack extra ones on because people don't want weapons to damage their machines. That a player is already ignoring a character's special attack and taking just "paint damage" then doing a whole lot of assumptions to magically catch on to a machine going ridiculously fast in a straight line by using "shortcuts" in space doesn't bode well for those who don't want to godmod and constantly add new powers. That the GM seems to encourage a behavior that is generally frowned upon is even worse.

@Zero Hex

This is going to become a problem it seems so lets put this to rest. You been complaining about one thing after a another and you obviously don't like my solutions so leave. I admit I said all hits were kind of bullshit so I put dodged and some damage which I believe was fair since you obviously wanted to get rid of my chars suit in one hit. You expect someone to sit there and take all that and than you complain when I dodge and come up with something to break apart your beam spam. I dont care who you think you are how how right your head cannon it doesnt matter. Call me out for godmodding fine whatever I can do the same for you for expecting me to just sit and accept the hits. You than complain about that fine lets go to that now with that we got the equilavent of a a wing and a wave rider mode. With that said there is a lot that factors in but while one is faster due to the speed of the mech the other is more free in which range it can go in.

It's not assumptions, they're conclusions made upon info being supplied. That and "it's just blatantly untrackable, lol" is almost as bad as the power gaming hit. you're flying away form me and the back of your suit is lit up by a stupidly large amount of thrusters, you're going to be traceable on several sensors.

[@mcpop]

I honestly believe that this right there is a logical conclusion with everything said and done no matter how much you want to say otherwise there is going to be a trail not obvious like the GN Drive but still there will be a trail. Trying to say their isnt can also be once again "Power/god modding" if you want to blame me for it than I can point fingers as well.

[Zero Hex]

<Snipped quote by Zero Hex>

This is going to become a problem it seems so lets put this to rest. You been complaining about one thing after a another and you obviously don't like my solutions so leave. I admit I said all hits were kind of bullshit so I put dodged and some damage which I believe was fair since you obviously wanted to get rid of my chars suit in one hit. You expect someone to sit there and take all that and than you complain when I dodge and come up with something to break apart your beam spam. I dont care who you think you are how how right your head cannon it doesnt matter. Call me out for godmodding fine whatever I can do the same for you for expecting me to just sit and accept the hits. You than complain about that fine lets go to that now with that we got the equilavent of a a wing and a wave rider mode. With that said there is a lot that factors in but while one is faster due to the speed of the mech the other is more free in which range it can go in.

@Suku

Sure lets ignore whatever points I might've made for my case in favor of me touching upon something else in passing. If I hadn't wanted you to dodge I would've instahit or said something along the lines of "impossible to avoid". You had options which you discarded in favor of doing what you did and which I will now proceed to spell out. "Oh I put all particle output on the GN Field", was one. Seems reasonable to me. The GN field is a thing your machine always had on the CS and particle shenanigans are the lifeblood of Gundam ever since the name Minovsky came up. You strengthen it at the cost of other systems and have it take damage and strain as you flee/approach taking hits.

The Masurao also has Trans-am. You could've used this to dodge everything and I wouldn't have said a thing because it's a listed supermode for max gottagofast, would've allowed you to outmaneuver and charge down my mech and put it in a really bad position. Simple as that. Instead of doing any of this your character somehow magically dodged 10 reactor-fed machineguns with increased accuracy shooting at it with nary an effect and you made something up on the fly to better deny what I tried to do at no cost to your character. It wasn't a single hit thing, either. It was literally everything my gunpla has except for its giant area-clearing beam mounted on the chest.

Proof of this is that someone sees what's happening because it's this one unit firing everything it has at another and is coming in to pick it apart. And it's not headcanon, beams are used precisely because you need very, very specific countermeasures to even provide a temporary defense against them and the Crossbone Vanguard uses things like the shot lancer so as to not destroy colony walls on accident. Hiding behind rubble, which implies that what you're hiding behind is already the broken or otherwise degraded remains of something, won't do much good when you have 22 mega particle guns focusing it down.

MS with mega particle weapons, rather than the smaller beam weapons, are consistently referred to as having battleship-grade firepower and reactor-fed weapons are more powerful than ones functioning on e-pacs by virtue of having a whole generator powering them, such as with units like the Messala. The Geymalk is, canonically, a unit designed entirely around blasting areas to smithereens and it has funnels which I removed in favor of extra body mounted weapons. But sure, I'll leave, looks like we just don't see eye to eye on things. Hope you have fun with your game. Feel free to, IDK, destroy my character and have him kicked out or something.

[Suku]

<Snipped quote by Suku>

Sure lets ignore whatever points I might've made for my case in favor of me touching upon something else in passing. If I hadn't wanted you to dodge I would've instahit or said something along the lines of "impossible to avoid". You had options which you discarded in favor of doing what you did and which I will now proceed to spell out. "Oh I put all particle output on the GN Field", was one. Seems reasonable to me. The GN field is a thing your machine always had on the CS and particle shenanigans are the lifeblood of Gundam ever since the name Minovsky came up. You strengthen it at the cost of other systems and have it take damage and strain as you flee/approach taking hits.

The Masurao also has Trans-am. You could've used this to dodge everything and I wouldn't have said a thing because it's a listed supermode for max gottagofast, would've allowed you to outmaneuver and charge down my mech and put it in a really bad position. Simple as that. Instead of doing any of this your character somehow magically dodged 10 reactor-fed machineguns with increased accuracy shooting at it with nary an effect and you made something up on the fly to better deny what I tried to do at no cost to your character. It wasn't a single hit thing, either. It was literally everything my gunpla has except for its giant area-clearing beam mounted on the chest.

Proof of this is that someone sees what's happening because it's this one unit firing everything it has at another and is coming in to pick it apart. And it's not headcanon, beams are used precisely because you need very, very specific countermeasures to even provide a temporary defense against them and the Crossbone Vanguard uses things like the shot lancer so as to not destroy colony walls on accident. Hiding behind rubble, which implies that what you're hiding behind is already the broken or otherwise degraded remains of something, won't do much good when you have 22 mega particle guns focusing it down.

MS with mega particle weapons, rather than the smaller beam weapons, are consistently referred to as having battleship-grade firepower and reactor-fed weapons are more powerful than ones functioning on e-pacs by virtue of having a whole generator powering them, such as with units like the Messala. The Geymalk is, canonically, a unit designed entirely around blasting areas to smithereens and it has funnels which I removed in favor of extra body mounted weapons. But sure, I'll leave, looks like we just don't see eye to eye on things. Hope you have fun with your game. Feel free to, IDK, destroy my character and have him kicked out or something.

@Zero Hex

Fine you run the rp you obviously want to lord your knowledge above everyone else and act like you know all while saying your paying attention to details when you just end up complaining when your way is not accepted you run the rp than since you think I dont know what im doing im out.

[stark]

Everyone settle down and take a step back. Bickering, while it may feel justified on all sides, is usually unproductive and has been the death knell of many a good RP.

The mods generally give all powers over an RP to whoever is GM, so I'm not going to try and override the GM's rulings/changes. That said, however, perhaps trying to come to some sort compromise over skills/powers you're clashing on (before continuing the RP) is in everyone's best interest. I'm happy to help mediate the situation and make sure this doesn't devolve into a flame war while discussions are had, if you'd like to have them. I'm not going to give my opinion one way or another on the matter -- I'm just here to help keep the hits above the proverbial belt line.

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. Please, respectfully, continue.

[Suku]

Yes I am sorry I did let my anger cloud my actions. @Zero Hexperhaps we need to calmly talk this out without slinging insults and what ifs at people we did let this go out of hand and I do admit I let anger cloud my actions if your willing to give this a second try lets do so. I sent a pm so we can discuss this peacefully.

[mcpop9]

@clanjos
I would just like to explain how i came to my conclusions using some shittily drawn MS paintings. I fully admit that my suit is slower in a straight line. don't worry, now that your suit is flying away, there is no argument, it's faster. However, with your suit going around kicking people in the back of the head, it would mean he went in straight lines from suit, if i'm understanding what you're saying correctly.

This is what i'm seeing as your flight path with the suit following the kick to kyo:


As to i'm proposing Kyo did something like this:



it would shorten the distance kyo would need to close as he wasn't following your beetle's path directly. meaning he would close the gap by shortening the distance needed to be traveled.

[Lunar Templar]

@Lunar Templar
Well, yeah, but let's be honest, the Tryon 3 team deserved to be the protags.

@clanjos

Eh .... only the one had any real 'character' to him, and I hated him almost as much as Yuuma. Fumina and Sekai I didn't have a problem with, hell, given what the Winning and Star Winning could do, I would call Fumina a better builder the Yuuma, certainly more imaginative, that's for damn sure.

[mcpop9]

@clanjosyou still around?

[Suku]

caught a cold earlier so I will post soon

[Prostagma]

Welp, my suspicions raised by the earlier kick have been confirmed. The XS Faith is legit invincible as evidenced by somehow tanking a full-on hit from a suped-up satellite cannon with minimal damage.
With that, this game is officially too powerwank for me. Have fun.

[mcpop9]

@Prostagmait tanked a laser by deploying specifically anti beam measures from its wings (check the sheet), lost its shield and beam rifle and had its armor weakened because of the high energy. It survived, but not by much.
Expecting to just one shot a player suit is ridiculous. and expecting it to just one shot after tunneling through the whole station ontop of being a stray shot is powergaming in itself.

I'm happy to play give and take in a fight and will lose when i've been outplayed, but simply throwing a stray satellite cannon that just so happened to hit kyo exact location, expecting it to just one shot the gunpla is not fair or ok.

[Suku]

People you can't expect to be able to oneshot suits easilly. Also there has been as@mcpop9 heavy damage to the suit and it is all within the char sheet.