B!tchfest: a healthy release for our non-roleplay annoyances.

[Dolerman]

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

That's something I can agree with, actually.

@Multifarious

[Multifarious]

I also find it funny that I'm not a Sanders supporter, yet this...

The Idiots of 2016

me

But I suppose it serves as a good explanation for my hatred of this year's candidates.

[SleepingSilence]

I also find it funny that I'm not a Sanders supporter, yet this...

The Idiots of 2016

me

But I suppose it serves as a good explanation for my hatred of this year's candidates.

@Multifarious

Looking at 'on the issues.' It says he's pretty far left, which honestly makes at a lot more sense given topics I've heard him discuss. Not saying it's a bad thing per say. But will say that chart MIGHT be inaccurate. ontheissues.org/Bernie_Sanders.htm I'm not saying this site is perfect but its at least a bit more detailed. :3

[Vilageidiotx]

@Dynamo Frokane No joke, For some reasons I read that as librarians. <.< And don't worry even though I'd consider myself as one, since it technically varies vastly politically (and only really means your anti-authoritarian.) and it seems to a be the new popular thing to be on the Internets. They sort of are the new internet term for "independent" or "moderate" aren't they? I'd think to think we are the 'we give an actual shit about politics' version of those words though. :P

@SleepingSilence

Libertarianism really picked up during the later Bush years, when you had a lot of people (particularly young people) growing disenchanted with their parents conservatism. In theory, it's the economic ideas of conservatives without any of the Neocon or bible belt extras. So if you're talking about social issues of geopolitics, they might seem moderate, but when it comes to economics, they tend to go quite bit further than conservatives. I was into it a few years when I was a freshman in college (because there is no belief better suited for freshmen), and I got out of it when I went down into the rabbit hole and started reading about things like road privatization.

I also find it funny that I'm not a Sanders supporter, yet this...

The Idiots of 2016

me

But I suppose it serves as a good explanation for my hatred of this year's candidates.

@Multifarious

The reason for a libertarian to support Sanders would be rather simple; campaign finance reform. You want people like Rand Paul to have a shot at this thing? That's the only way it happens.

[Dolerman]

@Dynamo Frokane No joke, For some reasons I read that as librarians. <.< And don't worry even though I'd consider myself as one, since it technically varies vastly politically (and only really means your anti-authoritarian.) and it seems to a be the new popular thing to be on the Internets. They sort of are the new internet term for "independent" or "moderate" aren't they? I'd think to think we are the 'we give an actual shit about politics' version of those words though. :P

@SleepingSilence

Still think Libertarians have the wrong mindset about authority and legislation based on some bad practices. Government does mess up sometimes, probably even too much, but its an essential and worthwhile concept to refine and improve.

To think we should remove all or almost all Government regulations? No. We don't need to return to the late 1800s, early 1900s years. The years where we had little to no regulations and workers were literally LOCKED IN THEIR WORK PLACE even if it was on fire. Where workers were forced to work 16 hour work days, pay so low they couldn't live off it, working conditions that cost tens of thousands their lives every year, etc.

And it ignores another problem not every market can respond the same. A true free market with no regulations (as in no anti-monopoly laws) will mathematically lead to monopolies. People who think some other company will spring up and compete if a company owns the vast majority of the market ignores reality. The company with majority control can afford to undercut their opponent for years even if it means a loss for their profits for those years. Because once the competition is dead, they can hike shit back up so high they make back their profits. And you might go "BUT THEN THE PEOPLE WILL JUST BOYCOTT THEM!" ya.. tell that to the people who need the pharma company pills or medicines to survive. They can't boycott OR THEY DIE! Same goes with if companies controlled water and food entirely. These markets aren't "free markets" they're "captive markets."

Libertarian ideology was taken over by corporate executives/leaders long ago so they could use it to push deregulation so they could make more profit no matter what damage they do to other people or other businesses or the economy as a whole (see the TPP and how it'll cost us 4.5 MILLION jobs and our GDP greatly: ase.tufts.edu/gdae/policy_research/TPP.. ) and the environment. They don't care about that. They only care about profits. Cause, fun facts, corporate executives are FOUR TIMES more likely to be sociopaths compared to the average human ( edition.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/08/26/co.. ).

So this is my summary:

[SleepingSilence]

<Snipped quote by Multifarious>

@Dynamo Frokane

Unfortunately, I know this from some experience with knowing bronies. I can tell you a 'MLP fan' and 'MENINIST' are literally diametric opposites of one another. A lot of them are very feminine individuals. They are more likely to be male feminists than a MRA member. xP

[Multifarious]

<Snipped quote by Multifarious>

Looking at 'on the issues.' It says he's pretty far left, which honestly makes at a lot more sense given topics I've heard him discuss. Not saying it's a bad thing per say. But will say that chart MIGHT be inaccurate. ontheissues.org/Bernie_Sanders.htm I'm not saying this site is perfect but its at least a bit more detailed. :3

@SleepingSilence

I'll say you're probably right. Clinton's probably been in all four quadrants as much as she flip-flops. I've seen that site before, and actually used some of the information there on my senior research paper. It's a good site, but a political compass is a nice little visual reference you can take a glance at real quick and get a feel for things.

It's also important to keep in mind that American politics are largely, extremely right as it is, so anything close to the y-axis on a, or at least the specific political compass I used, is considered "left" by American standards. At least, so I've been told.

[Multifarious]

To think we should remove all or almost all Government regulations?

@Dynamo Frokane

Those kinds of libertarians are the kind that want to use libertarianism as a stepping stone to support what is really their anarchist beliefs... Or maybe it's just my near-centrism that gives me that point of view. I dunno.

[SleepingSilence]

@Vilageidiotx It certainly is a young person thing a lot of the time, for sure. Yeah it became popular as a movement more recently. Well here's the thing, I know 'libertarians' that consider themselves NOT conservative in economics, hell I know some that don't consider themselves socially liberal. So, I don't really know and I get how that could potentially annoy people. There's one very loud group that apparently is only an american thing, where libertarian essentially means. "Gimme all those healthy drugs party". Because elsewhere that apparently isn't the case.

Which I'd like to think that's not the libertarian's main point. Yes, I (kind of) fit under the generic definition. Of mostly socially liberal and economically conservative. But a lot of people don't actually know what that is, which is why politics can get so frustrating. Because a lot of people don't really know what libertarians actually stand for, a lot of them believe they are like anarchists for instance. And it is a little silly to say you fall in any 'party term' since realistically individuals will have their own specific opinions.

[Multifarious]

a lot of them believe they are like anarchists for instance

@SleepingSilence

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Those kinds of libertarians are the kind that want to use libertarianism as a stepping stone to support what is really their anarchist beliefs.

@Multifarious

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane I'm certainly not versed enough to have too big of a discussion about this. But I don't really think libertarians want to remove all of anything. You're thinking of anarchists. I know bigger youtube libertarians have discussed the whole "1800's" argument thing. So I guess my suggest is maybe look up some people. I could probably find some stuff if you don't mind widening your knowledge a bit.

Forgive me for the simple arguments, But as for restrictions on businesses. Big businesses actually sometimes lobby for tougher restrictions. You know why? Because they can afford it. Their competitors can't. America needs less restrictions on small business. Government regulation does not automatically cure or even help, things like crony capitalism. It can make the issue far worse.

Also that first link about the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement. (Seems like more authoritarians like it than libertarians.) So not sure if you'd have to worry about that becoming a problem...
isidewith.com/poll/964547085/339382441
isidewith.com/poll/964547085/962379

huffingtonpost.com/dean-a-haycock/6-in..
"A preliminary study by psychologist and business management consultant Paul Babiak and his co-authors found that eight of 203 corporate professionals taking part in management development programs scored high enough to be classified as psychopaths. This 4 percent is indeed four times the number found in the general population. " <- Snippet

Study about 8 people...Don't think we should be breaking out the shotguns on them JUST yet. :P

[SleepingSilence]

@Multifarious Great minds think alike? x3

[SleepingSilence]

<Snipped quote by SleepingSilence>
I'll say you're probably right. Clinton's probably been in all four quadrants as much as she flip-flops. I've seen that site before, and actually used some of the information there on my senior research paper. It's a good site, but a political compass is a nice little visual reference you can take a glance at real quick and get a feel for things.

It's also important to keep in mind that American politics are largely, extremely right as it is, so anything close to the y-axis on a, or at least the specific political compass I used, is considered "left" by American standards. At least, so I've been told.

@Multifarious

@Multifarious You're quite correct there. Haha. That piss off a lot of people of the left in the USA I can tell you that, since being call a right winger here, is esstianally the new word for calling someone hitler or a nazi. XP

[Vilageidiotx]

@Dynamo Frokane I'm certainly not versed enough to have too big of a discussion about this. But I don't really think libertarians want to remove all of anything. You're thinking of anarchists. I know bigger youtube libertarians have discussed the whole "1800's" argument thing. So I guess my suggest is maybe look up some people. I could probably find some stuff if you don't mind widening your knowledge a bit.

Forgive me for the simple arguments, But as for restrictions on businesses. Big businesses actually sometimes lobby for tougher restrictions. You know why? Because they can afford it. Their competitors can't. America needs less restrictions on small business. Government regulation does not automatically cure or even help, things like crony capitalism. It can make the issue far worse.

Also that first link about the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement. (Seems like more authoritarians like it than libertarians.) So not sure if you'd have to worry about that becoming a problem...
isidewith.com/poll/964547085/339382441
isidewith.com/poll/964547085/962379

huffingtonpost.com/dean-a-haycock/6-in..
"A preliminary study by psychologist and business management consultant Paul Babiak and his co-authors found that eight of 203 corporate professionals taking part in management development programs scored high enough to be classified as psychopaths. This 4 percent is indeed four times the number found in the general population. " <- Snippet

Study about 8 people...Don't think we should be breaking out the shotguns on them JUST yet. :P

@SleepingSilence

The implication in "Small business needs less regulation survive because big businesses are capable of affording regulation" is that big businesses can easily blow the small businesses out of the water without breaking a sweat. Which is to say, if your argument is true, small businesses are shit out of luck no matter what happens. If you get rid of regulation, big businesses use that windfall to price small business out of the market. They can afford to pay for better employees, and they can afford to sell their services for less. So if you are right, and the old myth about small businesses being victimized by regulation is correct, than it don't matter because those same small businesses will fail in a free market. What you get now is unregulated big businesses free to run rampant across the little guy.

As for the TPP, I'm sure Libertarians have their own pet reason for not liking it, but the main reason the common folk are quoting is that it makes it easier for American industry to use overseas labor. And it is that borderless commerce that the term "Free market" actually means. Adam Smith didn't give a fuck about taxation or environmental regulation, his deal was the ability for goods and labor to compete equally with that produced overseas.

[Multifarious]

<Snipped quote by SleepingSilence>

The implication in "Small business needs less regulation survive because big businesses are capable of affording regulation" is that big businesses can easily blow the small businesses out of the water without breaking a sweat. Which is to say, if your argument is true, small businesses are shit out of luck no matter what happens. If you get rid of regulation, big businesses use that windfall to price small business out of the market. They can afford to pay for better employees, and they can afford to sell their services for less. So if you are right, and the old myth about small businesses being victimized by regulation is correct, than it don't matter because those same small businesses will fail in a free market. What you get now is unregulated big businesses free to run rampant across the little guy.

As for the TPP, I'm sure Libertarians have their own pet reason for not liking it, but the main reason the common folk are quoting is that it makes it easier for American industry to use overseas labor. And it is that borderless commerce that the term "Free market" actually means. Adam Smith didn't give a fuck about taxation or environmental regulation, his deal was the ability for goods and labor to compete equally with that produced overseas.

@Vilageidiotx

I don't feel like it's a matter of regulation vs. non-regulation so much as it is disliking certain policies. I, for one, am all for government's prevention of the formation of monopolies, among other things... But again, that might be my near-centrism talking.

[SleepingSilence]

@Vilageidiotx Well I think people like Sanders, is because how likable he is. And yeah...politics completely aside. He doesn't come off as a raging asshole like Trump or Clinton does. (Though that's the same reason Bush and Obama got elected, because Kerry/Mitt came off as raging assholes.) Both came off as likable individuals. But does anyone really LIKE Obama or Bush anymore? I don't think so...(don't lie people. :I)

But do I think he'd magically give people like Ron Paul a chance from getting elected. Hell no. Media on both sides is way too corrupt to ever let that happen. Maybe it's just the pessimist in me, but the next four years, no matter who gets elected. Will mean next to nothing for most of the population. The other side is going to fight the president the whole time, even if they are proactive in trying to something instead of going on vacations every 2 minutes. And literally nothing will be accomplished, the two party divide thing is so extreme, real issues don't even matter anymore. That's why you see people liking an idea coming from their party but hating it when the exact same idea comes from the other side.

[Sombrero]

<Snipped quote by Sombrero>

I can only imagine how one could sexualize sandwiches but do I dare venture down that dark corridor?

@ClocktowerEchos

It's much easier to sexualize dark corridors, but...

I've spent more time than I should've considering this. Actually, it's a subject I'm well-versed in. I think it really comes down to whether you would rather have sex with the sandwich or become highly aroused by the taste of the sandwich, but preferably not both... At least not with the same sandwich. I'm sure @Mardox has heard all about this kinda thing and has been trying to forget ever since... Unless someone's been impersonating him on other corners of the internet...

Anyway, back on the subject of complaining, one of the little cousins just stamped on a permanent marker, filled the house with ink-stink, and I have to mop it off the kitchen floor. Balls!

[Vilageidiotx]

@Vilageidiotx Well I think people like Sanders, is because how likable he is. And yeah...politics completely aside. He doesn't come off as a raging asshole like Trump or Clinton does. (Though that's the same reason Bush and Obama got elected, because Kerry/Mitt came off as raging assholes.) Both came off as likable individuals. But does anyone really LIKE Obama or Bush anymore? I don't think so...(don't lie people. :I)

But do I think he'd magically give people like Ron Paul a chance from getting elected. Hell no. Media on both sides is way too corrupt to ever let that happen. Maybe it's just the pessimist in me, but the next four years, no matter who gets elected. Will mean next to nothing for most of the population. The other side is going to fight the president the whole time, even if they are proactive in trying to something instead of going on vacations every 2 minutes. And literally nothing will be accomplished, the two party divide thing is so extreme, real issues don't even matter anymore. That's why you see people liking an idea coming from their party but hating it when the exact same idea comes from the other side.

@SleepingSilence

I actually like Obama, and I didn't vote for the guy. I disagree with him strongly on plenty of things, but the way he has handled himself is respectable in my opinion. I suppose I don't believe somebody has to be my ideal candidate for me to like them. And also, having grown up politically in the Bush years, it isn't going to take much to impress me anyway.

And no, it won't magically give them a perfectly equal shot, but it will give them the resources to make a real effort. The internet has helped a lot in evening the playing ground for people like Sanders or Paul, and their popularity on the internet does seem to show that their messages resonate if they can be heard. The media is corrupt only in the sense that they speak the duel language of money and popularity, and if you took the power of a Clinton or a Trump to dominate through their checkbooks, I think good candidates would get the ability to get their name out their on their own terms, and that from there they'd be able to make up the difference through their policies and personalities.

[Mardox]

<Snipped quote by ClocktowerEchos>
It's much easier to sexualize dark corridors, but...

I've spent more time than I should've considering this. Actually, it's a subject I'm well-versed in. I think it really comes down to whether you would rather have sex with the sandwich or become highly aroused by the taste of the sandwich, but preferably not both... At least not with the same sandwich. I'm sure @Mardox has heard all about this kinda thing and has been trying to forget ever since... Unless someone's been impersonating him on other corners of the internet...

Anyway, back on the subject of complaining, one of the little cousins just stamped on a permanent marker, filled the house with ink-stink, and I have to mop it off the kitchen floor. Balls!

@Sombrero

I have never before heard of sandwich sex. What site did you see me on?

[Ace of Hearts]

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Unfortunately, I know this from some experience with knowing bronies. I can tell you a 'MLP fan' and 'MENINIST' are literally diametric opposites of one another. A lot of them are very feminine individuals. They are more likely to be male feminists than a MRA member. xP

@SleepingSilence

And I find it kinda funny
I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying
Are the best I've ever had