[OOC] Black Mountain Tournament: Iolanthe vs Sigurd

[MelonHead]

Knuckle sandwiches are tastier than pommels.

@Doc Doctor

But pommels are more nutritious, high in iron I hear

[Doc Doctor]

@MelonHead
Pommels aren't very meaty though.

[Chimera]

Firstly, the way this sentence is written: His right foot shot forward as her left leg tried to propel itself backwards, his foot dropping down, and without any upsets, just in time to catch his enemy’s own. I read it as an auto-attack. There was no previous mention to him trying to step at her feet, thus this would require an extra motion in the lapse of such an extremely tiny fraction of time. Also, it is not stated as to which foot Sigurd is trying to step on, but I'm assuming it's the left? If so, Iolanthe had already begun getting up before her shield was struck.

As for the frequent attempts to take advantage of Iolanthe's cumbersome armour, assuming she's always too slow, and he's always too fast; this shouldn't apply when her body is being relocated by the grace of her lower legs, which I'm sure can bench a lot more than Sigurd can, perhaps even with his stone arm! Her kit allows her these short dashes. His previous attack only landed because Iolanthe doesn't have his upper body strength.

Given how fast she could spring up off her left foot, I'm absolutely sure she'd be able to fully rise before Sigurd was able to adjust his sword and stab. I think you're overestimating the weight of her armour, from how you've added bits to Sigurd's set so far, both warriors are wearing roughly the same amount; Sigurd actually has more covering for his legs, while Iolanthe simply has an extra large pauldron, the only thing to add any difference. Since Sigurd has leather with iron, and Iolanthe only has singular pieces, this should make the Viking's gear a bit heavier, if it is indeed plates he's wearing, and not tiny studs. The extra pauldron is on a part of Iolanthe's body that can handle weight with ease - so although that may be heavier, it's not a huge issue.

I just want to get this info out of the way before making another post... given how picky you are on how you must always win your exchanges, I'm sure that regardless of how I write it, if Iolanthe doesn't take damage in my next post, you'll say that she should.

[MelonHead]

'without any upsets' explains itself. Feel free to take no damage, that's pretty much the precedent you've set thus far.

You're conveniently forgetting your character is wearing steel plate and carrying thirty pounds in regards to her shield and lance, but hey-ho. I dream of a day when a man can step forward faster than someone can rise to full height from a crouching position.

[Chimera]

It's because her left foot isn't staying in place the entire time she'd be getting up. He probably would able to step a bit closer before she fully arisen, however her dodge is a 'spring' maneuver, she's propelling her left leg, and abusing the momentum of her arm being thrust aside to help relocate.

I was actually expecting Sigurd's attack! Like, almost exactly how you wrote it. With an exception: I figured he'd attempt to bat away Hyperion before lunging forwards, rather than playing footsies. That would've probably been a lot more dangerous for me & Iolanthe, but I have a trick up my sleeve, still.

I misread 'without any upsets' as if his attack landed without any upsets. Still, Sigurd is trying to outspeed someone with superior leg speed, I'll mention upsets.

Oh, you think I'm forgetting the weight of my character's gear? Nawwhh. 30 pounds isn't even very much, do you even lift? She's barely adjusting the spear in that last post, and the weight of relocating her shield? Well let's say Sigurd helped her make that swing.

[MelonHead]

Actually he's really not trying to 'outspeed' someone with superior leg speed. Stepping forward (with forward momentum) is simply a much easier task than lifting ones entire body up and then forcing ones self backwards far enough to completely escape Sigurd's stride, which is considerable as a 6ft 4" man.

Despite which, no matter what you argue your character's armour is inherently weighty. Armour dense enough to stop longsword strikes in the fashion yours has must be at least comparable to steel plate.

Like I said though, go ahead and take no damage. Some say that T1 Eden is designed for people to accept when they're in a disadvantaged situation, such as crouching on the floor, and take damage accordingly, but I wouldn't want you to feel burdened by the forces of fair play.

For the record, I'm aware that thirty pounds is not exceedingly heavy, but fourteen kg's of extra weight is still significant in terms of split second mobility, and it would be encumbering if you intend to hold it while rising and moving.

[Drifting Pollen]

Like I said though, go ahead and take no damage. Some say that T1 Eden is designed for people to accept when they're in a disadvantaged situation, such as crouching on the floor, and take damage accordingly, but I wouldn't want you to feel burdened by the forces of fair play.

@MelonHead

Firstly, you need to chill. Not saying this doesn't apply to Chimera as well, but please keep the passive-aggressiveness to a minimum. Be cool like the Fonz!

Secondly, she could technically take no damage and have it be completely fair... if she plays right. Remember, it's Iolanthe's turn, and she can still act to defend herself, and if she pulls something you don't expect, she could well avoid taking any damage. Admittedly, it'd have to be something damn good in this situation, but please don't start complaining when the post hasn't even been written yet.

[MelonHead]

By damn good do you mean just being quicker than Sigurd? Because that's what I've been led to believe is coming from Chimera's responses, hence my admittedly passive aggressive response. This has been a somewhat frustrating fight thus far, I've never fought an opponent who has voided so many efforts by simple merit of their armour. Sigurd has taken twice the damage from 'attacks' perhaps a quarter as effective as his own. I'm starting to worry that this fight is just impossible to win, especially with only three days left.

Also I was both drunk and subsequently hungover in the previous two posts, so I'll reserve judgement for the response and stop being a dick. Though my opponent insinuating I'm a sexist has riled me somewhat, and still does. Definitely a first for me in Arena fighting, good form.

[Drifting Pollen]

By damn good do you mean just being quicker than Sigurd?

@MelonHead

I mean strategically sound, and reasonably realistic.

As for the fight being impossible to win... it's not, not if you play your cards well. Maybe it's just the advantage of an outsider's perspective, but I see some very good moves for both sides, that could potentially end things in the next couple posts.

Thanks for being reasonable, though :) I know from experience how heated these things can get.

[Chimera]

I see the timing a bit off in Melon's post. Like, how could he have even tried to step on her foot the very fraction of a second she was getting up? On top of that, her guard wasn't broken until half-way through her leap back, so I'm seeing a larger gap of time where she can defend herself in her current situation. I always make sure each part of my post is in a chronological order for this reason. Sigurd would've been forced to extend his punch a knife's length more than intended in order to have struck her shield, so the crossing of his arms is a bit greater as well. She was also dodging to the opposite side of Sigurd's sword arm. To someone who is so critical about small things, I'm sure you'll understand how all these little things add up in my favor, Melon?

A post is incoming, maybe not tonight because I work early tomorrow, and already scheduled game-time with the S.O. Just - again - wanted to get info like this out there before any arguments or complains are had over Iolanthe not getting stabbed in the neck.

I also did a little testing in my last post. Honestly Iolanthe didn't have to take that shield hit, if she just continued opening up her guard on her own, his shield might never have hit it. I wanted to see how you'd react if I gave you exactly what you wanted from my post. The one time I do - no complaints whatsoever.

[Vordak]

Whoever of you two wins, i shall have you beaten to pulp without a single word spoken OOC.

jk

but i'll try.

[MelonHead]

1. He stepped forward to thrust, stepping on her foot was a bonus born from the fact that she first had to rise before she could shift her weight to slip her leg, where-as Sigurd could just step forward.

2. Her guard was broken as soon as Sigurd's shield slammed into it, helped along by her complete lack of resistance (awfully convenient that she knew matching his strength would hurt her). His shield slam was planned while Iolanthe was still dropping down to try and bend Sigurd's sword, so it takes precedent over the leap she attempted in the following post.

3. Sigurd had already made plans for her to try and pull her shield back, he had no issue with slamming his shield behind her own instead, so pulling back would make very little difference and he wouldn't have overextended (as he was holding the shield at a slight angle conductive to catching her shield should she pull back, the only logical defence.)

4. Shield's in front of her face until it's not, so any defence must be made without the benefit of any clear line of sight.

5. The crossing of his arms is unimportant, he can strike perfectly fine under his arm. Dodging the opposite side of his sword arm is actually conductive to his thrust in this case, if she had dodged the opposite direction Sigurd's shield would be in the way, as it stands striking at a leftward angle is exceedingly easy, actually preferred to her being straight on.

6. Not really.

7. I expect you to come up with something amusing, as the strike is a killing blow if left unchecked, perhaps the only one that can plausibly be launched against your character's tank like armour.

8. Yes she did, she took no precautions against Sigurd's shield slam, in fact she did the opposite and dropped her weight by throwing her own shield downwards. Unless your character can completely reverse physics, not to mention her own momentum, she was not going to be able to move her heavy shield out the way.

9. I didn't complain because you finally did what should have been obvious about eight posts ago, and got the hell out of dodge. Unfortunately, rather than simply slipping the leg when Sigurd struck at it you actually closed on him, which was monumentally counter intuitive. You've finally done what made the most sense, but at the worst possible time in the worst possible situation, by first having to rise before being able to pull back. In actuality what would have been most beneficial (and therefore 'what I want') for me would have been if your character was not somehow aware that Sigurd's shield was flying in (despite no prior observations being made) or that she was not aware that his arm would be unduly powerful and tried to resist, breaking her own arm or at the very least being surprised. Instead you somehow turned having your arm wrenched and your guard completely opened into an advantage by having your character lunge backwards. However, it still made sense, hence no complaints.

Hopefully that covers all your arguments surrounding 'critical details' though I'm not overly optimistic.

[Chimera]

1. Uh huh?

2. Oh?

3. Really?

4. Profit, you say?

5. Mhm?

6. Nuh uh!

7. Of course?

8. U wot m8?

9. Nein nein nein!

10. Oh wait this number is extra, isn't it?

11. I figure it's useless if I try and argue with you.

Obviously, as you've said, everything I did made no sense and anything I say in my defense can be ignored. If anything, I do realize the fault in my actions. Regardless of skill or poetry, Iolanthe's kit is mostly countered by Sigurd, and her only saving graces (leg speed & visual prowess) are constantly refuted. Her only magic, the spear, is initially mitigated by Sigurd's arm? (which I figure should burden the weight on his legs, at least!) And you still treat her like she should be as fast as a normal knight, regardless of my hope that I could make a 'speedy tank,' type character. She's not physically stronger than anyone here, and her armour is a lower grade than most... I suppose I should aim to make a character on the stronger side of a tier, before pitching forks.

This entire fight, re-read, all my posts have been about Iolanthe fighting hard, formulating strategies on spot, using her perception, struggling, and trying her best to overcome a difficult opponent; I wanted to make her relatable. Any time Sigurd's name was mentioned, it was usually about a move, or in respect to his abilities, things noticed. Looking back, only in your most recent post did you even mention Iolanthe's name, even though Sigurd knew it, usually your posts stated how she was being a failure, how he was obviously capitalizing on every crack in her armour, and how he seemed so superior in every aspect.

If arguing with you merits nothing, at least I can still express myself to you. So... the above is the main reason why I did not enjoy this fight. You can tell me your own opinion on why, feel free to, I'd prefer the feeling shared. I assume you'll say it's because nothing I do makes sense to you? Perhaps in the future we'll both better ourselves after this exchange of ire.

A post is pending.

[Drifting Pollen]

This entire fight, re-read, all my posts have been about Iolanthe fighting hard, formulating strategies on spot, using her perception, struggling, and trying her best to overcome a difficult opponent; I wanted to make her relatable. Any time Sigurd's name was mentioned, it was usually about a move, or in respect to his abilities, things noticed. Looking back, only in your most recent post did you even mention Iolanthe's name, even though Sigurd knew it, usually your posts stated how she was being a failure, how he was obviously capitalizing on every crack in her armour, and how he seemed so superior in every aspect.

@Chimera

Different styles of writing, I guess... honestly, though, both can work equally well. Ideally, you want to pounce on weaknesses and emphasize your own strengths and abilities, thus utilizing both your kit and theirs to the maximum extent. Knowledge and research helps as well, of course :)

[Chimera]

<Snipped quote by Chimera>

Different styles of writing, I guess... honestly, though, both can work equally well. Ideally, you want to pounce on weaknesses and emphasize your own strengths and abilities, thus utilizing both your kit and theirs to the maximum extent. Knowledge and research helps as well, of course :)

@Drifting Pollen

Oh for sure, I myself tried best to capitalize on any weaknesses I saw. As slight as they were! I honestly expected the fight to drag out longer, allowing me to fully utilize a somewhat risky tactic I had in mind. But of course I lost track of time.

The old fashioned swing dodge swing dodge swing battle just bores me, however, so that's why I went for these unorthodox attacks that aren't so simple. My own amusement, and enjoyment. I tried my best to enjoy the fight, and as annoyed as I got... I had a smidgen of fun trying. That's what matters, right?

[Chimera]

@Drifting PollenBefore Melon sees it, what do you think of my post? Would you say it was valid?

I pictured it over and over again in my head, and it seemed sound, and virtually the only way for Iolanthe to protect herself. (without falling on to her ass limbo-style and getting stomped on) I had prepared on using it right after the post before it.

Not sure how Melon is going to feel about it.

[Drifting Pollen]

@Drifting PollenBefore Melon sees it, what do you think of my post? Would you say it was valid?

I pictured it over and over again in my head, and it seemed sound, and virtually the only way for Iolanthe to protect herself. (without falling on to her ass limbo-style and getting stomped on) I had prepared on using it right after the post before it.

Not sure how Melon is going to feel about it.

@Chimera

Read through it twice, nothing amiss. Actions should be valid unless Sigurd pulls an interrupt (and he almost certainly will, thus technically invalidating the last couple paragraphs, but that'd be as a result of his actions rather than problems with your own). I won't say it's the best course of action, because I can see a couple of ways Sigurd could brutally counter this, but it certainly works.

Melon might take issue with something I overlooked, and for the sake of fairness I will consider any concerns he brings up. However, I'll say right now that IMO Iolanthe is justified in evading the stomp at her left foot (should MelonHead wish for me to explain the reasoning behind this, I will do so upon request).

Basically, if I were playing Sigurd in this situation, I'd be fine with it. However, my words here do not invalidate further scrutiny, if Melon should think it necessary.

[Chimera]

@Drifting PollenThanks for the second input.

I have a few more tricks up my sleeve for how Iolanthe might handle such brutal counters. Although the fact Sigurd did not backhand Iolanthe's lance in his last post gives me hope; Had he done so, my beloved hoplite would be in an incredibly worse-for-ware situation, likely on her ass and rolling around. Now I figure it's too late.

[MelonHead]

I've already explained that I write from my character's perspective alone. I'm not sure how much thinking you do in three seconds but there's really a limit for ordinary humans. Your character has superhuman perception, so you can feel free to write how your character feels about every minute detail, but for the most part Sigurd is just working off muscle memory and trying to get a job done. In Sigurd's world much of what your character has done would be a mistake, because he comes from a roughly human world. For example, advancing while your lance-point was behind him, failing to slip the leg, seemingly turning her shield. I'm not going to have Sigurd comment on how wonderful those moves are, because he wouldn't think they were effective. That doesn't mean they aren't, he doesn't have the benefit of knowledge he doesn't have. Also, Sigurd is unlikely to think of his opponent by name, because he is not a sociopath and does not like murdering people he barely knows, so de-personalising his opponent is a practical tactic. I've only mentioned Iolanthe in a descriptive sense to separate our character's equipment.

I have no problem with the post, your character has superhuman thigh strength so I really have no way of judging how much faster she is. If Sigurd was fighting an ordinary person it probably would have worked, hence why he tried it. I'll try and come up with something today in time, but I'm pretty ill so it might be shoddy.

[MelonHead]

So is that it for this fight, is it just going down to judge decision?