[OOC] Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

[Kho]

<Snipped quote by Kho>

I'm gonna refrain from giving you a lengthy history lessons on that misconception.

Dark Ages weren't Dark.

They were partially cloudy.

@Dawnscroll

Meh, Europe under Rome and Europe after is a tale of technological, social and civilisational regression that did not begin to fade until the 12th/13th century.
Of course, other parts of the world bloomed during this period, but I speak of Europe. Dark or partially cloudy or very sunny is irrelevant, what is relevant to my point is the regression in Europe which undeniably occurred.

[lif]

<Snipped quote by Dawnscroll>

Meh, Europe under Rome and Europe after is a tale of technological, social and civilisational regression that did not begin to fade until the 12th/13th century.
Of course, other parts of the world bloomed during this period, but I speak of Europe. Dark or partially cloudy or very sunny is irrelevant, what is relevant to my point is the regression in Europe which undeniably occurred.

@Kho

The Middle East was pretty baller back in the Dark Ages days.

Spain was too, when the Middle East came to say hi.

[Kho]

<Snipped quote by Kho>

The Middle East was pretty baller back in the Dark Ages days.

Spain was too, when the Middle East came to say hi.

@poog the pig

<Snipped quote by Kho>

The Middle East was pretty baller back in the Dark Ages days.

Spain was too, when the Middle East came to say hi.

@poog the pig

We're in agreement. The Muslim world was experiencing its 'Golden Age', the Mongols would soon come down and spread Muslim dominions and civilisation even further, Aztecs were having the time of their lives - such rich civilisation, architecture, history, religion. India was on a high, China - bloody hell, China. Even Japan was pretty epic. Humanity was pretty cool before colonisation, other than the odd Ghengis Khan, Tamerlane and pyramids of heads (and even that was pretty cool really)

Edit: And that's just humans. Now ANTS...

[lif]

<Snipped quote by poog the pig>

<Snipped quote by poog the pig>

We're in agreement. The Muslim world was experiencing its 'Golden Age', the Mongols would soon come down and spread Muslim dominions and civilisation even further, Aztecs were having the time of their lives - such rich civilisation, architecture, history, religion. India was on a high, China - bloody hell, China. Even Japan was pretty epic. Humanity was pretty cool before colonisation, other than the odd Ghengis Khan, Tamerlane and pyramids of heads (and even that was pretty cool really)

Edit: And that's just humans. Now ANTS...

@Kho

And then America happened.

admittedly Genghis is one of my favorite rulers of all time

[Kho]

<Snipped quote by Kho>

And then America happened.

admittedly Genghis is one of my favorite rulers of all time

@poog the pig

Yeah, all over whether we should have tea and biscuits or tea and khookies
Even Ghengis was in awe - at least he wanted revenge and whatnot, you guys just hated tea with biscuits

[Fabulous Knight]

<Snipped quote by Dawnscroll>

Meh, Europe under Rome and Europe after is a tale of technological, social and civilisational regression that did not begin to fade until the 12th/13th century.
Of course, other parts of the world bloomed during this period, but I speak of Europe. Dark or partially cloudy or very sunny is irrelevant, what is relevant to my point is the regression in Europe which undeniably occurred.

@Kho

That didn't happen, either. Economics took a massive hit, but technologically and socially -- things only progressed.

[lif]

<Snipped quote by Kho>

That didn't happen, either. Economics took a massive hit, but technologically and socially -- things only progressed.

@Fabulous Knight

I'd say that technology and social ethics progressed, but only within the realm of the church - the Dark Age is referred to as such for only the common European villager. Nobles upheld a certain amount of high living and reaped the benefits of such progressions, but a vast majority saw none of it. 'Sides, the Dark Ages were pretty dark. Lots of clouds, not a lot of sun, too much rain. Shit sucked if you lived in a thatch hut.

[Cyclone]

To weigh in, socially and economically the Dark Ages went crap. They aren't called 'Dark' because thhey were bad so much as because we are metaphorically in the dark about what happened, what with literacy going down and limited sources.

For the most part feudalism replaced the highly efficient Roman bureaucracy, coinage and banking kind of fell apart and kingdoms couldn't even retain standing armies, Latin was bastardized into a bunch of other languages...

Farming and metalworking advanced though

[Kho]

<Snipped quote by Kho>

That didn't happen, either. Economics took a massive hit, but technologically and socially -- things only progressed.

@Fabulous Knight

<Snipped quote by Fabulous Knight>

I'd say that technology and social ethics progressed, but only within the realm of the church - the Dark Age is referred to as such for only the common European villager. Nobles upheld a certain amount of high living and reaped the benefits of such progressions, but a vast majority saw none of it.

@poog the pig

<Snipped quote by Kho>

That didn't happen, either. Economics took a massive hit, but technologically and socially -- things only progressed.

@Fabulous Knight

I'm not so convinced. Do you think that the King of England who lived in a mud house was more technologically advanced than the Roman Emperor who was building coliseums and palaces wherever? Or that Europe was more technologically, socially and intellectually advanced after the great loss of knowledge following the collapse of Rome and the burning of the Library of Alexandria? And many other similar losses of which we know and of which we don't. The losses sustained in the centuries leading up to and following the fall of Rome are huge.

The Church was a very powerful force in the preservation of culture and knowledge for a long time, but it was very selective in what it preserved and what it did not, and very little was disseminated to the masses - leading the illiteracy etc. that Cyclone mentioned - and yes!! Metalworking definitely advanced. Bloody hell, they made an art of it. The one thing that really got better was probably warmaking xDD

[Kho]

But until I've read more around the issue, I won't outright say that any view is right or wrong, though I obviously lean towards the view I've expressed.

[Double Capybara]

@Kho Masonry and Carpentry also went high. Plus, I really don't think Rome being up would have been good for Europe, it didn't fall overnight, there were concrete reasons why it went from glory to ruins in a few hundred years, by the time the vandals and goths got in Rome was not even the capital of western rome anymore, and eastern rome with Constantinople and stuff was all the jazz, but even there, the flaws of Rome's system kept weighting the place down.

So yeah.
Technological degradation? Surely not.
Economical and governamental degradation? Absolutely
Social degradation? For who? Because a lot of people lived as poorly in rome as they lived in feudal france.

And yeah, the king of england in a mud house was more technologically advanced than the roman emperor. I mean, my house is shabby if compared to Babylonian palaces, that doesn't make the Babylonian palace more advanced, they are more complex, and complexity exists without tech.

[Lugubrious]

<Snipped quote by poog the pig>

Yeah, all over whether we should have tea and biscuits or tea and khookies
Even Ghengis was in awe - at least he wanted revenge and whatnot, you guys just hated tea with biscuits

@Kho

That's highly reductionist. Allow me to offer a highly reductionist counterpoint: imagine if your dad lived across the ocean from where you, under his direction, made your house yourself, and then had to continue living under his rules. Rather than giving you an allowance, he takes one from you. Now imagine many thousands of children all doing this for that absentee father. Might this rub you and your siblings the wrong way? Again, this masks the complexity of the situation, but I've acknowledged that it's a crude summary.

I expect you were making a joke though.

[Kho]

@KhoAnd yeah, the king of england in a mud house was more technologically advanced than the roman emperor. I mean, my house is shabby if compared to Babylonian palaces, that doesn't make the Babylonian palace more advanced, they are more complex, and complexity exists without tech.

@Double Capybara

No, there is a difference between a society having the technological knowledge and physical ability to create works of architectural glory, and having neither. King of England had neither, you - given enough money - do. Babylonians, Ancient Egyptians, Assyrians, Romans, Greeks etc. all had the technological knowledge and the power to. This makes them more advanced than 4th/5th even 9th century England.

[Kho]

<Snipped quote by Kho>

That's highly reductionist. Allow me to offer a highly reductionist counterpoint: imagine if your dad lived across the ocean from where you, under his direction, made your house yourself, and then had to continue living under his rules. Rather than giving you an allowance, he takes one from you. Now imagine many thousands of children all doing this for that absentee father. Might this rub you and your siblings the wrong way? Again, this masks the complexity of the situation, but I've acknowledged that it's a crude summary.

I expect you were making a joke though.

@Lugubrious

xDDDD I was actually making a joke xP

[Kho]

So I just lost a post I've been spending the last 3 hours one.

Goodbye.

[Lugubrious]

So I just lost a post I've been spending the last 3 hours one.

Goodbye.

@Kho

Goodbye sweet prince.

[Kho]

<Snipped quote by Kho>


Goodbye sweet prince.

@Lugubrious

Worry not noble minion. I shall write it again - and it's gonna be even BETTAAAHHH

[Double Capybara]

@Kho Have you tried going back to the page? The guild is really good at storing whatever you were writing.

Anyway, I would suggest writing the posts on text editors online (like google docs) 'cause they are very safe

[Legion02]

@Kho Could it be you miscalculated my MP? Reathos is level 3. So he gets a base of 6 MP (according to first page) + 1 MP (I had left from previous turn) + 2 MP (from my Wraith Stone holy site with 4 MP in it). Just wondering if my own calculations are wrong.

[Kho]

@Legion02 Can you link me to the post where he levelled up to Level 3?