[OOC] Black Mountain Tournament: Sigurd vs Gigue

[MelonHead]

Round 2

Arena 2: Quiet forest



The stream is shallow enough to wade through at the wide end, and narrow enough to easily jump over at the thin end. The ground is muddy and moss-covered. Weather conditions will be cloudy for the first 10 posts of the fight, after which it will begin to rain heavily, making footing uneven.

@Vordak

[MelonHead]

I'll have Sigurd start at position 1, unless you particularly want to post first I'll have my intro up sometime today.

[MelonHead]

@Vordak Uh?

[Vordak]

@Vordak Uh?

@MelonHead

No objections. Posting sometime today.

[MelonHead]

So is Gigue just going to wade across the stream, or should I assume he stops or crosses the bridge?

[Vordak]

So is Gigue just going to wade across the stream, or should I assume he stops or crosses the bridge?

@MelonHead

It's in the post: "When the river came up, he simply jumped over it and pressed on with his powerwalk: whoever was on the opposite side of the arena, he'd come right towards them and waste no time on greetings."

[MelonHead]

<Snipped quote by MelonHead>

It's in the post: "When the river came up, he simply jumped over it and pressed on with his powerwalk: whoever was on the opposite side of the arena, he'd come right towards them and waste no time on greetings."

@Vordak

Huh, must have missed it somehow.

[Vordak]

@MelonHead

I can't see the throwing axe being anything more than a flesh wound, really.

Steel tipped or not, neither is it thrown with superhuman strength (his left arm being the stronger one, in which he currently has the shield), nor is it stated to be heavy - rather, your CS describes them as 'small'. I imagine a throwing knife would barely have any penetration on leather armor - and an axe is even less suited for purposes of piercing, as it strikes with an edge, not a fine point.

By saying that he had penetrated iron plate with a thrown axe, are you implying that he can casually cut through it with a normal strike then?

I'm willing to accept crippling flesh wounds from slashes and death strikes from stabs, but you're now trying to make my armor seem like paper, which i don't appreciate.

[MelonHead]

Throwing knives are weapons only used in a pinch and not particularly effective, throwing axes are in no way comparable. It's only small in the sense that it is not suitable as a war-axe, it is specifically designed for throwing. Your character is also literally launching himself forward and jumping into the air, adding his own momentum to the momentum of the axe. I don't know how strong your character's armour is, but that would be sufficient to cave in iron plate, which is all I said. I don't know why people assume I'm making OOC comments in IC all the time, how the fuck is Sigurd supposed to know how tough his armour is? He can only work on prior experience.

Now, I can't say for certain how good a throwing axe would be, but what I do know is that ones exactly like Sigurds were used by actual dark-age armies, particularly the Franks, which puts them significantly above throwing knives in terms of combat effectiveness. They were known to shatter shields when thrown.

[Vordak]

@MelonHead

It seemed to me that the analogy with iron plate was put in there to imply that leather and silk would be negligible defense; that, and there wasn't anything in regards to the actual damage you would be expecting if it hit, so i guess that's why i inferred you were suggesting some sort of debilitatingly grievous injury.

[MelonHead]

No, iron plate was used as my estimation of what sort of armour the axe could bypass, or rather, Sigurds estimation. I left in plenty of info on what it could do, break bones, perforate armour, and easily destroy flesh. Not necessarily all these things at once, but a direct hit from an axe in these circumstances would be pretty bad, and comparable to the exact scenario in which they were used historically where they were known to absolutely fuck up the front line of a charging enemy, including smashing straight through hide and wood shields.

[Vordak]

Thing is, i went with the jump because i thought there would be little to no penetration expected from the axe: in theory, the hard layer of leather would break part of its momentum and cause drag to the blade, as it is quite stiff and would pinch down when cut; while the silk would cushion the blow and prevent penetration - a gambeson, for example, can stop a falchion strike from cutting in. Though a considerable amount of blunt force trauma would still come through, and Gigue would be left winded should i choose to take the hit head on, i don't think there would be a severe wound or immediately crippling internal injury.

When that came in juxtaposition with how you described the axe's power, i kinda freaked out. For that, i apologize.

With the above being said, i think i should ask if you can agree with my logic here, or if you disagree on the amount of damage that should be dealt.

EDIT: source material for falchion vs gambeson showdown

[MelonHead]

Well, I'm not convinced by your source material, no. It's literally completely different to the situation unfolding. I'm going to do more research into the exact sort of damage an axe throw of this kind would do, but as I mentioned, in a charging situation they were known to completely destroy shields. The same sort of thing is expected from spear thrusts and javelin hits, if that makes it any easier to imagine.

Sources I've found suggest the point and edge of a Francisca, which is roughly what Sigurd's axe is based off (the Vikings robbed the design off the Franks) could pierce chainmail when thrown. At the very least, they were renowned for shattering shields, so I think you may be underestimating the force with which the axe would collide with Gigue, particularly as his own momentum would be set against him.

Here's probably the most detailed source I've found on throwing axes, which says they can pierce chain mail.

http://www.medievalwarfare.info/weapons.htm#franciscas Considering the situation I'd expect your own character's armour to provide comparable (if not less) resistance than chain, so wounding is probable.

[Vordak]

@MelonHead

Guess i'll have to dish out the Hyperarmor next post - wouldn't want to be taking damage while not even in range for a retort yet.

But yeah, i did neglect to include Gigue's own speed into the equation. With how fast he's going, the impact's kinetic energy skyrockets to about triple at least. I'm a bit rusty, since i haven't fought competitively for about half a year now and forgot at lot of what i should be keeping in mind, so please forgive if i miss out on the obvious details from time to time.

[Doc Doctor]

When Gigue jumped, I was thinking, "This bloke must have a sick game plan!"

But when I found that the plan was taking an axe to the chest...

[Vordak]

@Doc Doctor

You'll find that i am very well capable of making "take an axe to the chest" a sick plan when i'll be beating your ass major in round 3.

[Vordak]

Or alternatively, if it don't make it to round 3, you'll know that taking an axe to the chest is shitty battle plan.

[Doc Doctor]

Soooo.... *Waits*

[MelonHead]

Soooo.... *Waits*

@Doc Doctor

Shh, don't startle Vordak, I don't want him fleeing another tournament fight with me.

[Vordak]

Rejoice, you'll still gungna see yer buddy, ol' Vordak, kick some ass.