[OOC] States of Evolution

[Frengo]

<Snipped quote>

Sounds fine to me.

I personally read everything I can in detail because I love this style of writing. History books are my fetish, yo.

...Wait, what? I didn't say that.

@Shorticus

Yeah it's not that I don't enjoy the style or reading it - indeed, back in my day, Nation Rps (called Diplomacy Rps then) were very much written in this format - it's just that after reading a few posts in a row, I'm left confused over what happened and to who. It's not really a problem, because I know the general gists of a nation's progress; however, I don't want to be shot down later on because I missed some piece of really important information and failed to act against it.

Also as GM, there's the added pressure of ensuring everyone is staying in line with the rules, which sometimes results in me simply scanning posts for any infractions as opposed to the quality of their contents - which stripped the fun from things.

If we all just take an equal responsibility over policing things (with me playing the role of the executioner's axe), then I can relax a little and enjoy things more. That's the idea anyway.

[epicberet]

Note that the fall of the Roman Empire started a dark age, where the triumph of Christianity over antiquity would forestall human progress for a long period of time (thanks Jesus!). However, in our time line, the Late Ancient Era will be on the threshold of an Exploration Age, where technology is set to drive into medieval-times. Indeed, I envision some of our actual character posts will be concerned with those who first voyaged across the great seas to a new land.

@Frengo

*cough* I'm actually a medieval historian, and medievalists have allergic reactions to the term "Dark Ages" - it's not 100% inappropriate, but it tends to imply that we don't know what was going on. We actually know a whole lot about the history from 400-800, and many important advances occured. You're right that if technological advances continue without the major disruptions of the collapse of Rome and the endless wars between the Byzantines and the Sassanians, it makes sense that we can bridge several centuries. Still, they were several very, very important centuries of exchange and trade that paved the way for certain advances: for instance, the emergence of cities in Europe [checked, but by no means halted by the Black Death in 1347] allowed new religious and social movements. (anyways I get off on this stuff)

Also I always feel obliged to remind everyone that Europe was a technological backwater in comparison with the East and with the Islamic World: most of Aristotle's work was unavailable in Europe until translators in Spain began translating Arabic copies of Aristotle into Latin. It would be nice if we point out in our posts how knowledge is moving around the world, because technological advances, especially sciences like math, herbology, medecine, philosophy, theology and astronomy are constantly moving around the world. The written word is so powerful, and libraries should be a big concern as we near the end of the history-writing!

COOL FACT TIME

Constantinople fell to the Turks in 1452, ending the Eastern Roman Empire, generally known as the Byzantines in the West. However, the Turks and Arabs called Byzantium "Rum" - the etymology is pretty obvious, and the Byzantines considered themselves *the* Empire. Only thirty years later, Columbus set sail. Only thirty years between the political end of the Roman Empire and the European (re-)discovery of America.

[ZB1996]

@epicberet

I didn't want to mention it because I didn't think it was too important, but I have the same sentiment as your post. I know enough about the Medieval Period to know that while they did lose a lot of things, they really tried to get it back. There's also a big difference between the low and high middle ages. I'm planning to show cultural exchange with my and other nations, but I need to meet them first.

I hope no one gets angry over this.

[Shorticus]

I hope no one gets angry over this.

@ZB1996

[ClocktowerEchos]

@ZB1996Mind if I say that the Regulii had some contact with you via trade and also sorta learned some actual math from you?

[ZB1996]

@ClocktowerEchos
That sounds good to me.

[neogreggory]

A mostly random statement, based from the fact that the word library was used. The entire history of the Kobold race can more or less be found on their walls, they, for some reason or another, can't help but write any and everything of importance to them upon the walls of their dwellings, places of business, restrooms, etc.
I mean, in time they should and likely very much will have proper books, but still. History. Walls. Nifty tidbits. Yay.

What were we talking about again? Cultural and Technology advances during the times called the medieval ages and how that affects both the RP and the mindsets of those in the RP? Nifty. I have no thoughts on the matter, my knowledge of history in general is very broad and unfocused, likely in no small part to how I perceive time, or lack to. Anyways, my perception of realty aside, I think I've said just about all I need to. Or want to for that matter. I shall now eat something, maybe watch some youtube or something, till next I check in.

[ClocktowerEchos]

Since I forgot, what kind of tech are we exactly at?

[ZB1996]

We're using ancient technology, and can use anything from that was invented up to 400 A.D. in our world.

[Shorticus]

I'm writing for another NRP right now (been doing so on and off all day), but I wanted to go ahead and take the time to ask:

@Frengo @neogreggory Is the Scalethein Empire going to touch the shoreline in the 3rd century or nah?

[Frengo]

@epicberet Well you certainly came at me with both guns loaded. Allow me to rephrase.

After the WESTERN Roman Empire fell, the world entered the Early Middle Ages. Basically, everyone got really angry about having regular baths, and some areas of Europe decided to do away with writing. Meanwhile, the Eastern Empire would continue to exist, and later act as a shield for the Catholic Church against Islam until aforementioned Catholic Church decided to sack Constantinople because DEUS VULT. Also I think the Emperors were freaky dudes too, like with the West, and spent more time banging chicks and painting than leading their peoples. Something to do with Themes? I think Themes were good, like regional warlords or something? Blah blah gabba gabba. Frengo's entire understanding of things summed up in some mush.

But my point I'm trying to make I guess, is that the decline of Rome was heralded by stagnation. Rome didn't really do much towards the end of its life, no great innovations or anything like that - or so I understand. When it perished, I think Europe just lost a great administrative power?

In our world, our nations are only going UP! So they're keeping that administrative advantage, along with their consistent rise of technological innovation and social progress.

[Frengo]

I'm writing for another NRP right now (been doing so on and off all day), but I wanted to go ahead and take the time to ask:

@Frengo @neogreggory Is the Scalethein Empire going to touch the shoreline in the 3rd century or nah?

@Shorticus

Errrr, I think the third century will cover the war with Promethea, which may or may not end up with sea, but I'll have to consult with my main man Neo the Greggory.

[ZB1996]

Let's try to avoid talking about the middle ages.

[Frengo]

Let's try to avoid talking about the middle ages.

@ZB1996

Agreed.

I've gotta take a sofa down the dump in a mo, will be a while. Afterwards, I'll see who we're waiting for and announce a deadline for the end of this century.

So, Charlemagne, amirite?

[ZB1996]

<Snipped quote by ZB1996>
So, Charlemagne, amirite?

[@John Scotus Eriugena]

Yes, I agree.

[Frengo]

Right, let's set a deadline for Tuesday 16:00 UK time. If there's any problems, then lemme know :)

[epicberet]

@epicberet Well you certainly came at me with both guns loaded. Allow me to rephrase.

@Frengo

Hey, came on a little stronger than I intended. I certainly didn't mean to cause any offence or come across as attacking you, so if I did, I'm sorry! I get very excited about this stuff, and you're knowledgeable already, but most people I meet know about as much about history as they've seen on Game of Thrones or (god forbid) *those* documentaries on History Channel. So I have a default script that I give about why everything is complicated, most of the stereotypes are wrong, and why Western Europe and the Islamic World are so intertwined. Thanks for calling me out on it - and yeah, I'll restrain myself from now on.

You're right about the writing; Charlemagne created schools to train scribes and bureaucrats, but though he himself spoke and read Latin and Greek, he never could master writing. (He kept a tablet under his pillow so he could practice when he woke up, but was always frustrated. It's rather adorably sad.) #HISTORYFUN #okimdonenow

In our world, our nations are only going UP! So they're keeping that administrative advantage, along with their consistent rise of technological innovation and social progress.

Yeah, that's what I was actually trying to get at in my comment - total agreement with what you're saying! We can streamline this as much as we want! :D I would add urbanization as just as important as administration to constant technological and social change, and something that was lost. However, I think given our unique races we should see some interesting (and ahistorical!) results. Sorry again if I made it seem like I was trying to rules lawyer you all with history; I enjoy the creativity and imagination of it all more than I care about details. I'm really excited to see where this goes.

Post up soon, hopefully! Have had a busy weekend, but I'm working on it.

[Shorticus]

It would be nice if we point out in our posts how knowledge is moving around the world, because technological advances, especially sciences like math, herbology, medecine, philosophy, theology and astronomy are constantly moving around the world. The written word is so powerful, and libraries should be a big concern as we near the end of the history-writing!

I'm only bringing this up again because this part directly concerns our roleplay, to which I'd love to make a note and ask a question.

The note: this is something I've been discussing with a couple folks for the upcoming third century: the trade of ideas, philosophical and scientific and religious, throughout the eastern region. There's actually quite a lot that ought to be going on soon, and an event that I'm planning to write up should create a general connectivity between folks in this part of the world. (Note: this doesn't mean "friendly meetings between everyone" necessarily, just "exposure to other civilizations to drive RP onward.")

The question: I notice you mentioning libraries, and that implies books. On paper-making and books and the ancient versions of the printing press: do any of these exist yet? I was going to have Zaqir invent paper-making in the third century, but if paper-making already exists that's not a big deal.

[Frengo]

<Snipped quote>

I'm only bringing this up again because this part directly concerns our roleplay, to which I'd love to make a note and ask a question.

The note: this is something I've been discussing with a couple folks for the upcoming third century: the trade of ideas, philosophical and scientific and religious, throughout the eastern region. There's actually quite a lot that ought to be going on soon, and an event that I'm planning to write up should create a general connectivity between folks in this part of the world. (Note: this doesn't mean "friendly meetings between everyone" necessarily, just "exposure to other civilizations to drive RP onward.")

The question: I notice you mentioning libraries, and that implies books. On paper-making and books and the ancient versions of the printing press: do any of these exist yet? I was going to have Zaqir invent paper-making in the third century, but if paper-making already exists that's not a big deal.

@Shorticus

The Prometheans had developed several written languages, so they either wrote it on wax or paper. I feel bad for not giving these guys more of a back history, but they were supposed to be fine balance of civilised innovators and warlike barbarians. If someone had something better than them, then they invaded and utilised that technology or resource to their advantage - copy and paste that over centuries, and BOOM, you had the Promethean Empire.

In their autumn though, they are much like how Rome was; backwards, crippled economically and militarily, and clinging to old dreams of grandeur in a world that is quickly forgetting them.

[Shorticus]

Okay, that's what I needed to know. So paper doesn't need to be invented. Thanks!