mdk

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by mdk>

I hate to be dramatic but this whole thing is a national dishonor. And I say that without hyperbole. I hope they at least feel ashamed. At least.

@Kratesis

I mean, not so sound like a broken record, but... they produce all the right soundbites, and that's all anybody's listening for.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

2014 is the year the VA was caught falsifying reports to make it appear that the waiting times were better than they were. At least 120,000 veterans were affected and dozens may have died because of the delays.

@Kratesis

And they're still doing it, but now they loop the Choice Act into the chain of events. They can drag their feet at the VA first, then kick you to Choice 30 and drag their feet there, then kick you into Choice 40. Each one registers as a new wait time so you stay off their books. If you try to fight it, they mark it down as "cancelled by the veteran" and then they're off the hook entirely. The whole thing is super-fucked-up.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

I'm simply saying it's a huge, complicated process, and perhaps that while it's not good, it used to be even worse. And I think that affordable healthcare is a good thing.

@POOHEAD189

Interestingly, to the first part (it used to be worse), the thing they did to lower wait times was toss a few billion into an entirely different fund called "VA Choice," which simply pays for the veteran to see a regular doctor. It didn't fix any part of what's broken at the VA, it just said "Well.... fuck it, idunno, here's regular insurance." But then the kicker is, the provider network is shrinking on account of the VA's track record for approvals and payments and all that (which is poor)

"Healthcare," "Affordable," and "Government." You can basically pick one-and-a-half of those things. The VA is affordable (free) and it's government, but you don't actually get healthcare. ACA is government healthcare, but it isn't actually affordable.

To Whit:

Private healthcare is healthcare and it's normally affordable for most people most of the time -- I mean it's better than the alternatives we've seen, so far as the US (in the real actual world) is concerned, so I'd say for now we should sorta roll with that.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

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@Penny

You're not hearing me.

I didn't say "leave it alone."

I said, show me the policy that fixes it, and we'll talk. Show me. You're apparently a subject-matter expert. Fix it. And then we'll talk about universal healthcare.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

However under president Obama, and presumably under Bernie Sanders the waiting days of the VA went down 119 days between 2014 and 2015 I think?

@POOHEAD189

Not buying that. I waited 14 months in 2014 and I'm still waiting after 18 months in 2016-2017. Granted, sample size of one, but frankly it's the one I care the most about.

Not really sure where to go from there.

We're political children more concerned with soundbites than policy.

@Penny

I told you exactly where to go from there. Solve the VA. Show me the policy that fixes the VA, put that policy into practice. When that happens, I'll entertain a conversation about universal healthcare. Until you can do that, you're asking me to inflict the system that cut me into literal pieces onto the rest of the nation. I ain't having it. Come on -- gradually apply some data to it. Fix my conservative BS. Punch the Nazi. Show me what you got, you're the smart one.

Or were you just looking for another chance to throw out a soundbite?

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@Kratesis

My point being that all countries with universal healthcare systems face these challenges to a greater or lesser extent. I know the current administration doesn't exactly inspire confidence but you can do it! I believe in you USA! The idea that the greatest superpower in the history of the world cant confront the horrors of regional diversity in order to provide healthcare to its citizens is ludicrous.

@Penny

The VA serves 8.92 million veterans, and accounts for $186.5 billion, or about 5% of the total federal budget give-or-take. That's about half the budget of Medicaid (70 million enrolled), and about a third the budget of Medicare (57 million enrolled). In other words, spending per person, you get Medicare ($1k/person), then Medicaid ($5,257/person), then the VA at a whopping $20,722/person, or four times more spent on administrating that cost than on the nearest similar program.

And despite that, VA wait times are outlandish (I tore my shoulder in May of 2016 -- still waiting), outcomes are terrible (I lost my leg over a torn meniscus, and others have it worse), satisfaction is lower than a sagging ant tit (and does that surprise anybody?). All this is caused by many things, like the sheer size of the country and the distribution of veterans within it, but it's also because bureaucracy always trends towards this result. It's also because private practice attracts more (and better) healthcare providers. It's also because US federal employees are practically immune from firing -- or they were, up until Trump signed the VA accountability act, so we'll see how much that helps.

It's also because honestly no, we can't handle it. We're political children more concerned with soundbites than policy, and we'll vote for anybody who says the right thing. Know who was in charge of the VA, until he ran for president? I'll give you a hint, he's the one proposing universal healthcare. Why the fuck would we listen to him?

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

I've worked in two different countries with universal healthcare systems. Neither of them were perfect but both of them had significant advantages over the American system. This is particularly true in the provision of pre-critical preventative care. Again, not perfect, but better.

@Penny

I'm willing to bet they were also smaller.

The US is very large and very diverse (meaning geopolitically -- population distribution, regional income, infrastructure, etc). The policies that work in New York are different than the policies that work in New Mexico. I don't think universal healthcare will work at the federal level in the US, and I base that on my experiences with TriCare and the VA system. I think that most, if not all, of the patients operating in either or both of those federal healthcare systems will back me up on that.

Put simply -- this is not a conversation worth having in the US until the federal government can demonstrate competency with the VA. Until that happens, universal healthcare is delusional.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

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@POOHEAD189

language warning

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

Ok, we can drop it for now and find a new topic to talk about. I have been neglecting some RP stuff last night and today because of the discussions unfortunately.

@POOHEAD189

did somebody say new topic?

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by Penny>
True, but most decisions aren't as permanent as that. Choosing whether your kid gets certain medications or if they go to a certain school is what the parent thinks is best, not what the parent exactly feels like they want. To me it's like they're treating a baby like a cheese burger. "Oh, no pickles. Lots of lettuce. And yes, ketchup. But not TOO much ketchup."

@POOHEAD189

And it's taking some of the LIFE out of, well, life, isn't it? Someday I wanna look my lesbian intersexual daughterson in the mismatched eyes and tell shim "I'd love you even if you were straight."

....and I'm only joking about the offensive part, like, that unconditional love between a parent and a child is about as fundamental to the human story as anything else. When we start picking our kids' traits out of a brochure, we're introducing contionality to it. Like "Look, I love you kid, but they fucked up your nose, it's too big, that's not what I paid for and frankly I feel like I should get some of my money back. I mean not all of it, you're still mostly cool, but come on though."