Sathanas Rex

[Unranked] Sathanas Rex vs Melonhead

Instead, Brennus launched a fairly simple attack, stepping forward on his right foot to grant himself extra reach as he lifted his weapon slightly and pushed down with his forward hand,

I interpreted the 'as' as meaning 'at the same time'. Like he attacks throwing his right foot forward. Instead, he steps forward on his right foot, then once that's completed, attacks? I asked repeatedly, and always understood 'yes, at the same time'.

Also, even with a 130cm blade, it doesn't change overmuch. Still an almost total extend. Also, my kind of fencing is medieval, so longswords, HEMA, 16th century treatises. I'm fairly sure of what I'm saying, though I am by no means a master. In the hypothetical scenario it is an all out lunge, and we were discussing that. In the actual fight, it's not a lunge. I understand. We said this before, right? I misinterpreted.

[Unranked] Sathanas Rex vs Melonhead

This is rather fun though, I have to admit.

Skallagrim, I don't quite understand how else you would lunge? It certainly wasn't described as a particular kind of lunge.

[Unranked] Sathanas Rex vs Melonhead

I tested the range from seven feet away with an 85 centimeter sword, you still have to fully extend to hit. You can recover from that certainly, maybe more easily than what I had first thought, but we've already established this.

Also @Vordak, I see what you mean with the push, but I think that he can't muster that kind of force, due to his arms being almost fully extended because of the strike and his chest also totally forward. There's not a lot he can leverage, right? It is true that it's not exactly weak on strong any more, I'll give you that, but Brennus is still in too uncomfortable of a position to really push down.

A vertical cut in gran passata, moving your right foot forward. It's not a straight lunge but something like a downwards hack, lunging forward with your body. If you split that movement into two then yes, it's different, but in this hypothetical it's a continuous attack.

[Unranked] Sathanas Rex vs Melonhead

I can't ever see myself doing it, but I think it is possible for a superb swordsman to recover from a seven foot lunge. Florian is still at an advantage because of the distance he has to recover, but it is not impossible.

However, you have yet to address the fact that as soon as Florian's hand leaves the grip to grapple, Brennus can easily push his sword downwards and threaten him with the tip pointed to the face.

@Vordak

I don't think he can do that, due to the way he's parried. This could work even if Florian parried with one arm: Brennus' weak is firmly against Florian's strong. Florian's sword is horizontal, tip to the left, while Brennus' attack is a straight lunge. Even with six hands, he couldn't push down on that.

It occurred to me another thing Florian could do here, as he has complete control over Brennus' blade, is shift his sword so the tip faces Brennus. This pushes Brennus' blade away and lets Florian stab him unimpeded.

[Unranked] Sathanas Rex vs Melonhead

my IC post was based entirely on that assumption, yeah. Ooops, I guess.

[Unranked] Sathanas Rex vs Melonhead

six or seven I believe.

[Unranked] Sathanas Rex vs Melonhead

Gladly!

I'm not sure how this would work in Arena, you can tell me that. In actuality though, in this hypothetical, none of these are possible for the following reason: footwork. This is the scenario, from the top, with your hypotheticals included. I just spent about two minutes demoing each with my brother -- it was very fun (though he died repeatedly):

Florian is in invite. Brennus throws himself with a gran passata, right foot forward. Florian intercepts and parries. He grabs his sword arm with his free hand. At this point, Brennus still has his left foot way back. It's discharged and so can't do anything. If he moves his left foot forward to recover balance, Florian stabs him. I determined that he could maybe punch him in the crotch, somewhat half-heartedly, but he'd receive a point to the face in response. He can't push himself back with his right leg because the grapple has connected.

Maybe, maaaaybe, Brennus could push himself back with his right leg the instant before Florian's grapple connects, but his leg isn't fully charged because it's so extended, and at this point Florian could throw himself at Brennus in fleche or something and gore him. So Vordak's previous suggestion isn't instant death, but it's still not optimal. The bit where I said extremely skilled fencers could do such a thing turns out to be a different attack.

Am I making sense?

edit: Though there has been an edit and a post in the time I posted this, I think it still stands. The hypothetical is in the scenario that Brennus throws himself all out, right? If it's not, then the fight is not over at all.

[Unranked] Sathanas Rex vs Melonhead

I understand now this is definitely not a combat situation Brennus is comfortable with. My mistake. I took too many liberties in the opening post.

Brennus would destroy Florian in a contest of strength, absolutely no questions. That move specifically doesn't require strength though, as Vordak said, which is why Florian was confident in using it. He stops Brennus' blade with the strong part of his own, and then grabs his wrist, preventing him from making any serious attacks, and then striking for the kill. Very quick and painless. That's how it would happen in the totally hypothetical scenario that is not the one described in this fight -- if you were to continue the example I offered, I mean.

[Unranked] Sathanas Rex vs Melonhead

Oh good, I didn't want to offend you. I wanted to present things nicely in the opening post, like a sort of story, which is why I took the liberty of doing so. Brennus didn't do anything compromising, I don't think, so it's probably fine, but it's true that not every forum does so comfortably. Sorry again.

Hrmrm you're right, I don't sound too convincing, and 'trust me' doesn't exactly cut it. I'll try to explain again. A forward lunge in gran passata (when you attack and simultaneously move your foot forward) is a fast attack that covers a lot of distance, but its downside is it takes forever and a half to recover from it. It's generally used when the opponent is in no situation to parry. It's not a quick darting in attack.

However, a quick darting in attack could be obtained by moving forward in passata, and then attacking, once both your feet are on the ground. You obtain a very similar result this way: covering distance and then attacking. It's split into two movements, but it's a lot safer, and closer to what you were describing?

Fencing is not sword fighting we are discussing. Fencing fights along lines the type of sword fighting in the era Melon wants does not.

@Skallagrim

It's true, this isn't at all historically accurate combat. Neither Melon nor I are using roman-era fighting techniques. I didn't think that was a requirement in the arena though. @Melonhead if you'd feel more comfortable using roman era spear-and shield, we can re-do this, no problem. I'd much rather fight and lose than debate for ages and not fight, if that makes any sense.

[Unranked] Sathanas Rex vs Melonhead

<Snipped quote by Vordak>

Yeah, I'm fairly certain there is no basis for the assumption that Brennus 'has no options' other than the fact that his attack is apparently slow and easy to counter, which are interesting points to make on the flip side to an attack you've called 'covering distance fast' and 'high momentum'

The thing is, anyone could fight by simply googling someone's attack until they found the closest professional name for it, and then finding the counter and just saying 'my character performs -this-'

That's my problem with this so far, that and the slightly unfair manipulations of what I'm posting, and the lack of detail.

Hell, I find this whole thing pointless, if I was playing Brennus to character he would never have accepted any of this, right now he'd probably drop his sword and just beat the shit out of Florian hand to hand.

@MelonHead

Oh dear, I've offended you. I'm sorry. I promise I'm not trying to manipulate this fight, and the lack of detail is an issue, I haven't been arena-ing for too long. The attack is fast in execution but can be parried. It's slow to recover from. Does that make sense?

The point of this fight was to help me get a hang of how the Arena works though, not playing a situation in character. I have certainly been reminded, repeatedly, to keep details in mind, and will do so in my next fights.