BTW, what was the initial distance between the two, at the time of Brennus' lunge? 10 feet?

six or seven I believe.

Seven is a pretty big distance. Brennus should indeed have his footwork encumbered.

However, you have yet to address the fact that as soon as Florian's hand leaves the grip to grapple, Brennus can easily push his sword downwards and threaten him with the tip pointed to the face.

my IC post was based entirely on that assumption, yeah. Ooops, I guess.

Where is the time delay between your character raising his sword to parry the attack (which obviously has to happen at the point where Brennus' move is completed) and then relinquishing a hand on his sword to reach out and grab Brennus' wrist? Are you saying your grab is faster than Brennus' back-step and pulling his arm back? I don't see how that's possible unless Florian has supernatural speed. Or are you taking an additional step forward after the parry? In which case they are matched in action, so it must be that Florian is just faster for some reason, as he has to cover that distance where-as Brennus just has to extend it. (all of this is in response to the idea that the grab is inevitable)

Seven is a pretty big distance. Brennus should indeed have his footwork encumbered.

However, you have yet to address the fact that as soon as Florian's hand leaves the grip to grapple, Brennus can easily push his sword downwards and threaten him with the tip pointed to the face.

That was what I was saying earlier about Florian having upper body strength that far exceeds Brennus' own, as my original assumption was that he was using the sword one handed, but I've now discovered he's conveniently using it two handed to block the attack, and then moving his hand from his sword (while still encumbering a two handed sword strike applying pressure downwards) to obtain a grab.

Where is the time delay between your character raising his sword to parry the attack (which obviously has to happen at the point where Brennus' move is completed) and then relinquishing a hand on his sword to reach out and grab Brennus' wrist? Are you saying your grab is faster than Brennus' back-step and pulling his arm back? I don't see how that's possible unless Florian has supernatural speed. Or are you taking an additional step forward after the parry? In which case they are matched in action, so it must be that Florian is just faster for some reason, as he has to cover that distance where-as Brennus just has to extend it. (all of this is in response to the idea that the grab is inevitable)

Read Sathanas reply again. That isn't what he says.

Brennus could push himself back with his right leg the instant before Florian's grapple connects

I can't ever see myself doing it, but I think it is possible for a superb swordsman to recover from a seven foot lunge. Florian is still at an advantage because of the distance he has to recover, but it is not impossible.

However, you have yet to address the fact that as soon as Florian's hand leaves the grip to grapple, Brennus can easily push his sword downwards and threaten him with the tip pointed to the face.

I don't think he can do that, due to the way he's parried. This could work even if Florian parried with one arm: Brennus' weak is firmly against Florian's strong. Florian's sword is horizontal, tip to the left, while Brennus' attack is a straight lunge. Even with six hands, he couldn't push down on that.

It occurred to me another thing Florian could do here, as he has complete control over Brennus' blade, is shift his sword so the tip faces Brennus. This pushes Brennus' blade away and lets Florian stab him unimpeded.

Huh, I don't buy the fully extended leg argument, as far as I can tell a man of Brennus' height would cover about two feet with his arms, allowing for his sword to reach about two feet (probably more), that leaves a maximum of three feet (in the farthest example) to cover with his step in order to reach his opponent with the tip of his sword. That's hardly fully extended.

I also don't understand the 'charged' foot thing, unless there's something wrong with me I actually find it somewhat easier to bounce backwards when I've stepped as far forward as possible (which for me is like four feet) I'm not trained or anything, but I'm still able to perform the action quickly.

Maybe the issue here is I'm imagining the distance from my own perspective, seven feet is negligible to me because it's only just above my own height, especially when holding a big stick. I should point out though that on the flip side I can measure six/seven feet very easily, it's basically just me lying down. That's NOT a very far distance, especially with a tool.

I don't think he can do that, due to the way he's parried. This could work even if Florian parried with one arm: Brennus' weak is firmly against Florian's strong. Florian's sword is horizontal, tip to the left, while Brennus' attack is a straight lunge. Even with six hands, he couldn't push down on that.

It occurred to me another thing Florian could do here, as he has complete control over Brennus' blade, is shift his sword so the tip faces Brennus. This pushes Brennus' blade away and lets Florian stab him unimpeded.

I tested it. Thanks to having a two-handed grip, Brennus can push downwards the hand closer to the hilt, while pulling up with the other, creating a very forceful push, capable of simply bending Florian's elbow and forcing away his shoulder. Also, thanks to stepping forwards and bringing his sword in front of his shoulder, for which the strike was aimed for, it is not exactly the weak of the blade that Florian is parrying anymore.

<Snipped quote by Sathanas Rex>

I tested it. Thanks to having a two-handed grip, Brennus can push downwards the hand closer to the hilt, while pulling up with the other, creating a very forceful push, capable of simply bending Florian's elbow and forcing away his shoulder.

Brennus is already doing that, it's part of the idea that I wanted him to fight using a lot of physical force, which I thought would be more realistic for a Celtic warrior (who in this period were renowned for fighting with sheer ferocity and physical prowess, rather than the more precise and calculated movements of fencing, which is more to do with the different types of swords and the lack of armour and shields IMO.)

Also, why do you keep calling the attack a lunge Sathanas? I thought it was pretty clear I wrote it as a vertical cut?

I tested the range from seven feet away with an 85 centimeter sword, you still have to fully extend to hit. You can recover from that certainly, maybe more easily than what I had first thought, but we've already established this.

Also @Vordak, I see what you mean with the push, but I think that he can't muster that kind of force, due to his arms being almost fully extended because of the strike and his chest also totally forward. There's not a lot he can leverage, right? It is true that it's not exactly weak on strong any more, I'll give you that, but Brennus is still in too uncomfortable of a position to really push down.

A vertical cut in gran passata, moving your right foot forward. It's not a straight lunge but something like a downwards hack, lunging forward with your body. If you split that movement into two then yes, it's different, but in this hypothetical it's a continuous attack.

Again he is fighting a fencing style and assumed you would lunge in a manner similar to a fencer. Which is not true. Also an average man strides 18" frim heel to heel.

This is rather fun though, I have to admit.

Skallagrim, I don't quite understand how else you would lunge? It certainly wasn't described as a particular kind of lunge.

I tested the range from seven feet away with an 85 centimeter sword, you still have to fully extend to hit. You can recover from that certainly, maybe more easily than what I had first thought, but we've already established this.

Also @Vordak, I see what you mean with the push, but I think that he can't muster that kind of force, due to his arms being almost fully extended because of the strike and his chest also totally forward. There's not a lot he can leverage, right? It is true that it's not exactly weak on strong any more, I'll give you that, but Brennus is still in too uncomfortable of a position to really push down.

A vertical cut in gran passata, moving your right foot forward. It's not a straight lunge but something like a downwards hack, lunging forward with your body. If you split that movement into two then yes, it's different, but in this hypothetical it's a continuous attack.

Your character moved forward, essentially granting him the extra leverage he may have needed. Also, your sword test was inappropriate, the average longsword's -blade- is 90cm long, the whole sword itself being up to 130cm long. If you wanted to fight with weirdly small swords you should have said 'he threw minature longswords' rather than 'wooden longsword'

I think there is definitely some sort of major misunderstanding here between both of us, possibly because of the differing styles we are adopting, but I think I have a somewhat better support in that both our characters are using wooden longswords, fencing isn't going to be the most appropriate medium in which to judge how our fight is going down. I'm (attempting, I must admit) to utilize HEMA knowledge to support my arguments, which IMO better evaluates how a longsword fight would go downtown.

Melon never said he lunged he changed his foot stancing and slashed down using the reach of the sword.

This is rather fun though, I have to admit.

Skallagrim, I don't quite understand how else you would lunge? It certainly wasn't described as a particular kind of lunge.

It's not any kind of lunge I'm not freaking fencing, what is it about that you're not getting?

ninjad

Instead, Brennus launched a fairly simple attack, stepping forward on his right foot to grant himself extra reach as he lifted his weapon slightly and pushed down with his forward hand,

I interpreted the 'as' as meaning 'at the same time'. Like he attacks throwing his right foot forward. Instead, he steps forward on his right foot, then once that's completed, attacks? I asked repeatedly, and always understood 'yes, at the same time'.

Also, even with a 130cm blade, it doesn't change overmuch. Still an almost total extend. Also, my kind of fencing is medieval, so longswords, HEMA, 16th century treatises. I'm fairly sure of what I'm saying, though I am by no means a master. In the hypothetical scenario it is an all out lunge, and we were discussing that. In the actual fight, it's not a lunge. I understand. We said this before, right? I misinterpreted.

What is this hypothetical situation, because if it's a hypothetical of this fight then at the minimum range of six feet there is no way my character is over-extended, nor would it matter as your character came forward into the attack, essentially weakening his own defence against it in order to try for a grab.

Anyway, I think we can continue with this, because what I've established is that Brennus is in a position where Florian has weakened his only defence against having his head bonked with a wooden sword in order to try for a grab (which I also don't understand, because my character has two hands on his sword I fail to see how even managing to grab one would aid him in anyway)