tex

I Wanna Hear Your Opinions On The Different Wrting Levels/Forums.

@Sierra

That's not to say that collaborative efforts don't exist, or that they're invalid, of course. Some people do enjoy the 'writing' side of role playing more than the... Uh... Role playing side of role playing. And that's fine. If players want more structure, I chalk it up to taste.

@tex

Taking the time to think about how your actions with your character(s) is one of the hallmarks I personally use to separate casual & advanced roleplayers. An advanced roleplayer should take at least a few seconds to think beyond themselves and to the story at large.

Playing a role does not mean you don't need to or shouldn't care about the plot/overall story.

If anything, a healthy blend of both worlds makes the pest potential players and that is the target audience I would always want in my groups if I had my way.

I agree to some extent. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

My point was that role playing and writing are two different things, and should be acknowledged as such. In regards to collaborative posts specifically, I just feel like they outright defy the spirit of 'role playing' that I've experienced since I was a kid. It's not so reprehensible if two people are alone, but there a problems that arise in those situations as well, I think.

I Wanna Hear Your Opinions On The Different Wrting Levels/Forums.

so an essay worth of roleplaying posts that requires you to separate your post into 3 subsequent posts in rapid succession is not 'long' to you so long as it's well written, but a one liner that overstays it welcome (strange way of categorizing it, gonna assume you mean the same as fabricant above) is 'long?'

@Odin

No. I think that - "I would include any post that overuses fluff for no mechanical purpose, posts that dump piles of pace-breaking exposition, and posts that break 3000-4000 words."

The primary appeal of shorter, or more concise posts, is to allow more prompt and effective reaction from other players.

For example, if one of your characters goes on a 30 second spiel about how much they love oven mitts, I cannot assume that a chatty character who likes to butt into other people's conversations wouldn't cut them off 15 seconds in. While there's always a margin for error and control here, it's these moments of 'what if' that should be taken into consideration by all parties.

Another example: If a post describes somebody running 15 KMs, and then describes what they're doing by the time they reach the end of that route, what happens if another character intercepts them half-way? Does half of the post get invalidated? Were other characters simply not allowed to interact with this character because 'too bad I don't want to'? Why would it be acceptable to put such a broad seal on a character's ability to interfere with another? It's these huge leaps that make it difficult to play a role. There's some level of balance to be agreed on, and I believe that longer posts do little to find a middle ground on an issue like this.

you mean like adding artificial indents like you were writing a paper?

IT'S A HABIT. _{A good habit, I'd say.} I hit tab after double enter like it's a fucking tick, man.

we could play your game where we condense everything while remaining true to the key points, in which case a carefully written dialogue between (a character) and (their NPC mother) on the phone in the morning during the morning routine turns into 'their mother called in the morning and then they left.' it's just a question of which you prefer.

I think there's a disconnect somewhere. To condense does not mean to invalidate. It's important to decide on what details to include, while also taking into consideration your fellow players, and not barring off their ability to play a role. Ultimately, the difference in experience is decisive here. We clearly have different perspectives and/or have witnessed completely different examples in advanced. I myself have rarely come across longer posts which are so well executed, that they bring shame to shorter posts with similar amounts of palpable content. Additionally, I don't frequent the advanced section. Most of what I've read dates back to pre-death guild, or 2016-2017.

I think that this disconnect in both our intent, and experience, makes it difficult to argue anything that isn't anecdotal. Considering the spectrum of experiences with Advanced though, I'm willing to believe that there are varying opinions on what constitutes good writing, and a great deal of those experiences I've heard seem to agree that Advanced and casual are not all that different. But that would be an entirely different discussion altogether, and veer viciously away from the thread's topic of comparing writing levels/sections.

I Wanna Hear Your Opinions On The Different Wrting Levels/Forums.

@Superboy

What I mean when I say that role playing and writing are not one in the same, is that role-playing, as its name implies, is centered around and defined by 'playing a role'. It's the essence of playing a character, first and foremost, before anything else comes into play. The medium in question - writing - does not define the practice. It merely acts as a platform or a 'stage' on which players can perform. In one sense of the word, role playing can also be associated with theater and games, both of which do not require any measure of writing to succeed.

Although I wouldn't say that there's no collaboration with roleplays, just think about how a group plays for a moment. While there are plenty of players writing in a group RP, can you assume that they're collaborating with their writing? Or even their story telling? Perhaps each player's focus is instead on playing their role, and reacting to the world around them. If we assume this to be true, suddenly there is no assured collaboration in many regards. Unless players plan ahead, which I believe defeats the entire purpose of roleplaying, there's no telling whether or not two characters will work together IC. Additionally, there's no guarantee that they will collaborate on the same story. Perhaps characters will act of their own free will, and disregard not only the wishes of the other characters, but the wishes of the other players.

It's this organized chaos that I think makes roleplaying so entertaining and engaging. Too often are folks obsessed with their precious plans to simply play a role through to the end, and enjoy the experience for what it really is.

That's not to say that collaborative efforts don't exist, or that they're invalid, of course. Some people do enjoy the 'writing' side of role playing more than the... Uh... Role playing side of role playing. And that's fine. If players want more structure, I chalk it up to taste.

I just think that collaboration isn't the central focus of role play. Playing a role is the central focus of role play. Hell, I don't even think Meta-collaboration should be allowed in role playing. I feel like it's quite literally a fashion of meta-gaming.

Share your technique, and critique.

Writing is a subjective practice to the umpteenth degree, but there are techniques and styles that are popularized simply because of how well they work. Seeing how this site is mostly compromised of non-professional writers, I'm curious to hear about some of the self-developed, or adopted techniques that you use in your writing.

I'm primarily interested in unique ideas and the thought process behind them. Why you use commas, semicolons, where you might apply many syllables or shorter words to change sentence flow, how you may change the length of sentences to accomplish a similar effect, how you handle speech, and why.

'How' and 'Why' are the big questions here.

Additionally, I would encourage anyone who chooses to participate to feel free in reflecting on the techniques of others, while also being open to critique yourself. Feel free to use examples to emphasize your style, or ask your peers how they may change/adopt one of your chosen techniques.

I Wanna Hear Your Opinions On The Different Wrting Levels/Forums.

When it comes to length, I wouldn't consider a post to be 'long' unless it overstays its welcome. I would include any post that overuses fluff for no mechanical purpose, posts that dump piles of pace-breaking exposition, and posts that break 3000-4000 words. Many players have trouble writing exposition without disrupting the pace of a story, using descriptive writing to empower themes and tone, and summarizing their writing in general. While casual RPs are certainly not exempt from this fact, I've merely experienced more of this trend while reading into advanced threads. Either I'm just excessively unlucky, or Casual is so over-inflated that it's hard to compare to advanced due the the sheer mass of examples. I'd say it's important to make a relative comparison in that case though. You can't compare 800 threads from one section to 100 threads in another section directly.

It's also important to examine posts/writing from a storytelling perspective more often than it's important to accredit a text for its use of fluff. Dan Brown, as a professional example, does not fluff up his books at all. Whether that's because he simply lacks the capacity to do so without putting cracks in his already bland narratives, or because he thinks it unnecessary is besides the point. Compare him to somebody like Steven King, and there's a drastic change. King's storytelling is well executed in tandem with his talent to the written word. Sometimes his books suffer because of how verbose they can get, but for the most part, he's a good example of how to write fluff without breaking sentence flow or ruining pacing. Though, it should be no surprise that I also think Steven King's books are very hit-or-miss.

The issue that comes up when people 'prettify' their writing, is that many young readers will flop over and applaud when they see 5 adjectives in one sentence. Sometimes a community that encourages innovation is not healthy for improvement. RPG's community as a whole is mostly concerned with the art of roleplaying. That, or starting drama. What a shocker. It should be noted the role playing and writing are not mutually inclusive. There are plenty of people that have no desire to improve their writing while role playing. While RPs involve some level of collaborative writing, that isn't the focus of role playing. This is also one of the reasons as to why collaborative posts are cancerous monstrosities that defy the very nature of Role playing, but that's another topic entirely.

Even so, I don't think this is a community where people should look to improve. I think it's a site where people seek entertainment through a medium that happens to find itself based in writing. If people want to improve, that's great. If not, that's also fine. I'm not looking to push people towards professional writing myself.

That being said, I'd always thought that separating 'casual' and 'advanced' was a silly idea that brings more negatives than positives.

A novelist doesn't always follow the standard.

I'd argue that, most of the time, novelists do follow particular standards. They also have professional editors to pick up the slack in some cases, and reflect on their writing. Part of the issue with examples you'd find on a site like this, as mentioned earlier, is that players post-and-go pretty quickly. The level of proofreading that goes into a post is likely minimal. I rarely even proofread my own posts.

Quality =/= quantity but they are intrinsically related in most cases.

In what sense? Does it have any pertinence?

Caravan: Resurrection

Feral Cove, Near Ayer and Paric's Landing
_{3rd of Summer - 9:49 PM}

Slowly, Dannisus reached for his pouch as Paric began to go on about alcohol. To let these buffoons tag along with him was to invite mayhem into his life. One seemed like he would crumble in the wake of a strong breeze, while the other was pleading for alcohol within minutes of landing ashore. He thought about it for a moment. They offered to help him, but neither Paric nor Ayer seemed capable of defending themselves from the crustaceans at their feet, let alone a fully grown Omphin. Any sane Man would have surely disregarded them with a pleasant 'No'. Dannisus had another idea though.

"I'll be blunt. You two seem incompetent. Men like you that spend time outside Nation walls don't last very long, and I'm not keen on babysitting," Dannisus muttered just loudly enough for the two men to hear whilst rummaging through his pouch, "But I can't exactly stop you from following me around. The least I can do is slow my pace. If you're set on accompanying me, you may do so." The Myti pulled out a minuscule flask - so small than it barely fit in the palm of his hand - and tossed it towards Paric. It had a little bit of Alcohol in it. It was just enough to get the tiny Myti inebriated, but how well it would work on Paric was unclear. "My price is not your aid, but rather, your knowledge. Assuming you two survive, I would like to take a long look at your contraption once we return to Leias," he announced, pointing to Wax Jury casually. Dannisus offered the two boat men his most sincere smile. "It wouldn't sit well with my conscience to leave you two behind, knowing your predicament."

Of course, he was lying through his teeth. Dannisus didn't care about Paric or Ayer at all. He could leave them to parish and sleep through the night with no issue at all. What he couldn't ignore was the man's contraption. If he were a more sinister man, the anxious little researcher would have killed them both without a second thought. But despite his indifference towards their fate, he was not going to murder a couple of innocent travelers to fuel his curiosity.

If they died on accident though, that wouldn't be his fault.

Baeshri Hills, West of Centaurus
_{3rd of Summer - 10:42 PM}

Flin's followup left the Myti with a bolt stuck firmly in her leg. By then however, she had already been immobilized. The woman whipped her head towards Flin's direction and hissed through the winds with vicious intent. Her injuries, paired with the traps below her, wouldn't allow for such aggression to take form. Noru reached for Ell and shook her shoulder gently.

"Good work, leave her be," he urged the Druid, "Please."

Baeshri Pass, Caravan Centaurus
_{3rd of Summer - 11:06 PM}

The force he faced was unlike anything he'd dealt with before. Paladins did not possess any ability to enhance their strength, and elemental mages in Arcadia rarely reached this level of mastery or force with their arcane manipulation. Blake pushed the handle of his hammer forward and dug his hammer's head into the ground to use it as an anchor. In this position he couldn't move freely without risking damage to his legs. In the wake of Rem's magic, the giant man faced multiple moments of near helplessness. Ordinarily he would be angry with himself for making such blatant errors, but this was not a result of his own mistakes. Blake rose his head slowly to meet Rem's gaze in spite of the wind battering his eyelids. His lips curled into a tight, compact smile. A different smile from earlier. This was a new and exhilarating experience. He was so used to plowing through foes with the aid of his magical artifact, using little to no effort. It was unnecessary and ill advised to exert his body to dispose of weaklings. But perhaps just perhaps, it would be perfectly reasonable for him to let loose for this divine asshole.

Leias, Kolo's Bobbet Stand
_{4th of Summer - 5:47 PM}

Kolo's brow shot up, but it shouldn't have been a surprise. "Right, you're not a local. Myundane, it's slang for people who can't use magic 'round here. Myundane, like the common tongue, mundane." The woman looked down at Ryio's arm, a little embarrassed by her culture's habits. "It's not meandt to be taken assa insuldt. Mydi are jud' a liddle unakwainted wid non-madgikul people." Kolo briefly blew her nose again before meeting Ryio's eager eyes with a sickening sigh. "But, ah. It's not important. The girl you're looking for goes by Lannissa. I'm sorry to say that she's currently out of town, looking for her stupid brother. But she should be back in a few days, at most." Kolo looked past Ryio for a moment, longing for somebody to stop by and buy something. It was already pretty late in the day though. Even if she didn't have a human at her stall, business wouldn't have been too good with most people already fed. "I don't think that solves your now problem, though."

I Wanna Hear Your Opinions On The Different Wrting Levels/Forums.

@Sierra

I can understand the intent with writing in a particular style to convey what-have-you, but I would not go as far to consider objectively incorrect grammar to be a universal technicality. I firmly believe that there are rarely times when you should sacrifice grammar for any sort of attempt to have something read a certain way. There are a plethora of grammatical tools that allow one to exercise a particular form of sentence flow. Take this as you will, but I perceive all attempts to dismiss grammar as a very obtuse approach to creative writing. If we are to judge any form of writing and hold it to any given standard, the only objective metric we have to reference is grammar. Anything beyond that is a discussion of either opinion, or genre-specific trends. It would only be productive under the pretense that we would be using acclaimed sources as reference to further contrast different levels of writing.

While there are certainly situations where grammatically incorrect statements can be used to some success, these are few and far between. Sentence fragments in particular are rarely acceptable, and should certainly be used sparingly. They serve a very impactful purpose, - to convey thought - but unless one can convey the exact reasoning behind fragmenting one of their clauses without offering an alternative, it's not a great idea. It can easily disrupt sentence flow if overused. I find that this is a common mistake that a lot of writers make (I would use fragments relentlessly to pretty up my writing when I was younger) along with a relentless usage of adjectives, pointless use of semicolons, overuse of commas, and this is a big one that I often still make before proof-reading, redundancy. It may get a little subjective at this point, you're right about that. As mentioned earlier however, a conversation on objective writing methods is impossible. At best, citing authors that successfully execute particular patterns of writing to great success would grant some level of merit to an argument. A good example of a writing method used in poetry, one that was an objective success, would be something like Iambic pentameter.

I certainly can't make sweeping generalizations such as 'they are all objectively poor examples of writing' in regards to every single post that doesn't adhere to the typical rule-set of grammar. If there were to be any judgement on writing level, it would certainly have to come down to a case-by-case series of examples. But I will say that, despite incorrect grammar having some application, I do not associate all attempts to explore and innovate with 'advanced' writing. I associate it with creativity.

Admittedly though, the Advanced section is more often host to far more creative and unique ideas than casual is. I think it's been mentioned a few times already here, but where Casual is flooded with typical tropes that get recycled infinitely, many advanced concepts are fresh in comparison. If there were an argument to be made for the advanced section being 'advanced' as the name implies, I think it would be in regards to its willingness to step outside of the box. I wouldn't make that argument myself, though.

Of course at that point it's a balancing act. There are people who try to defend their incredibly poor writing by using this 'outside the box' mentality as a shield, while there are others who claim there to be no point in stepping outside the rules. To disregard either side is of course, entirely silly.

At any rate, I think it's more important to fully understand martial arts before attempting to fashion something new. The same can be said for any practice.

Current Mood in One Gif

I Wanna Hear Your Opinions On The Different Wrting Levels/Forums.

@Odin

There's no debate. My intention was to directly compare and contrast writing standards between the sections, while keeping the conversation fixated on the topic that this thread revolves around. I've no intention of carrying on with a "debate" on writing practice as a whole, or elaborate on the flaws/mistakes therein. Even so, a ""debate"" on grammar and style seems perfectly welcome in a thread which directly discusses the differing opinions on the different levels of writing between sections. Why you would assume a conversation on the differing levels of writing has no pertinence on a thread directly about sharing thoughts on different levels of writing is wholly beyond me.

With that in mind, you are perfectly welcome to address me elsewhere regarding your writing, @SleepingSilence. I'm more interested in more detailed examples on where individual standards lie in Advanced and Casual when it comes to this thread, hence my own criticisms.

I'd appreciate it if people didn't associate every single critically mounted discussion with some kind of disruption and respond to all comments therein with snide remarks.

Roleplayer Appreciation Thread.

Here's a few reliable posters that don't make me want to gauge my own eyes out.

@Jensoman
@Ryushura
@mataus
@Necrophage