In my opinion, you've had a very poor RP/writing experience.

Perhaps sometime we can do a FanFic together, and I can show you just how wrong you are.

It's a matter of observation and a little homework. I know Wolverine. I know his past and history as well as it's been made available by said creators. I've read countless comic books, watched the animated series. I know Wolverine as well as one can know Wolverine. I know his personality traits, his habits, his moral stances. The amount of source material for Wolverine is overwhelming! How then could I not understand him well enough to accurately portray him?

I mean, if you can't play a character, the creator hasn't done their job very well, because if they had, you'd be a little more equipped to play the character, because you'd understand that character enough to take a shot at it.

So either you just aren't that good at understanding characters, or the creators of your favourite stories/characters are doing a piss poor job of it.

Jesus Christ can you accept an opinion? Even if you tell me multiple times that I'm wrong and don't know the characters, I'm not gonna suddenly agree with you...

OutlawTorn said I know Wolverine. I know his past and history as well as it's been made available by said creators. I've read countless comic books, watched the animated series. I know Wolverine as well as one can know Wolverine. I know his personality traits, his habits, his moral stances. The amount of source material for Wolverine is overwhelming! How then could I not understand him well enough to accurate portrait him?I mean, if you can't play a character, the creator hasn't done their job very well, because if they had, you'd be a little more equipped to play the character, because you'd understand that character enough to take a shot at it.So either you just aren't that good at understanding characters, or the creators of your favourite stories/characters are doing a piss poor job of it.

I accept your opinion, and I'm now speaking in terms of factual substance.

Just think about it. I'm confident you'll agree with the fact that some people possess the tools to study a character and everything that makes them them, and then apply that knowledge to their own portrayal of that character.

It's not rocket science, but more like studying for a test.

OutlawTorn said
I accept your opinion, and I'm now speaking in terms of factual substance.Just think about it. I'm confident you'll agree with the fact that people possess the tools to study a character and everything that makes them , and then apply that knowledge to their own portrayal of that character.It's not rocket science, but more like studying for a test.

Also true.

Good writers can sometimes play a canon character very well. Not as good as the actual creators, but it happens. The more enjoyable fanfics definitely have characters in properly in character.

Sadly, most of the time, they're out of character and horrible.

I do not disagree. I've seen some truly awful, vile fanfics in my day.

But I've also read, and been a part of several outstanding ones, where each writer knew their character very well.

I mean it's basic logic. Of course Len Wein (No, Wolvie wasn't created by Stan Lee) will write Wolverine better than I could. No one's trying to argue that specific point (I hope so, anyway). What I'm saying is that if you are intimately aware of a character and his/her respective source material, you should be able to play that character with enough accuracy to get by. The creators should have depicted and explored that character enough for you to understand their tendencies, mannerisms, habits, vocabulary, accents, body language. It all depends on how perceptive YOU are.

Sure, there are more than likely little things about any character the creator designed but never ended up depicting, exploring, or sharing with the audience for one reason or another. Let's say for humor's sake, Len Wein decided Wolverine was deathly afraid of clowns. You're right, I couldn't possibly know this. But given the fact that this aspect of his personality was never explored or came to light in 40 years of exploration, does it really effect how one would portray him??

Not even close. That's what it comes down to. Wolverine is 40 years old...

With 40 years of source material, if you can't write Wolverine (after doing homework, of course), you're probably pursuing the wrong hobby...

Something I get annoyed with:

When partners make plots all about their characters. This happens more blatantly in 1x1s I think, because in groups, it's easier to work toward a goal with others, whereas 1x1s is more exclusive and dynamics change more often, depending on the situation. I have a partner on tumblr who tends to make a lot of drama and "twists" happen so her characters are put through more crap (ex: her character hits his head and suddenly has bad flash backs to when he was in an abusive relationship. Or her character is gay and currently accepting about himself and while my character is openly so and her guy is now focused on himself than the relationships he's forming, the rp has now become focused on her character's and their hardships, rather than the bonds they share). I don't mind developing through challenges but it seems like she thrives on bad things happening and it's getting tiresome because when something good starts to happen, she twists into something with her characters spiraling out of control.

I just have an issue that when she does this because it seems like she's only writing about her characters and to herself, rather than engaging my characters who of course want to help but who are getting to the end of their rope too. As am I, so it's becoming harder to hide my annoyance when I write as my characters, which is making the RP more slowly than usual. She's a good person and writer but I've brought up the issue that we need more fluff and progression and I don't know if she understands how tired I'm getting. I can only tolerate so much drama. I want her roles to develop but I wish I wasn't the crutch. I wish we could create something together. Getting it off my chest helps, I know I should express my concerns more but I just don't want to insult her or her ideas, they're interesting but I hate it being so one sided.

*sighs*

EDIT - I wasn't sure where the topic was or if this was this "open" so erm sorry if I posted where I shouldn't have.

Oh god, people who twist too much, just nu.

Genkai said
When partners make plots all about their characters. This happens more blatantly in 1x1s I think, because in groups, it's easier to work toward a goal with others, whereas 1x1s is more exclusive and dynamics change more often, depending on the situation. I have a partner on tumblr who tends to make a lot of drama and "twists" happen so her characters are put through more crap (ex: her character hits his head and suddenly has bad flash backs to when he was in an abusive relationship. Or her character is gay and currently accepting about himself and while my character is openly so and her guy is now focused on himself than the relationships he's forming, the rp has now become focused on her character's and their hardships, rather than the bonds they share). I don't mind developing through challenges but it seems like she thrives on bad things happening and it's getting tiresome because when something good starts to happen, she twists into something with her characters spiraling out of control. I just have an issue that when she does this because it seems like she's only writing about her characters and to herself, rather than engaging my characters who of course want to help but who are getting to the end of their rope too. As am I, so it's becoming harder to hide my annoyance when I write as my characters, which is making the RP more slowly than usual. She's a good person and writer but I've brought up the issue that we need more fluff and progression and I don't know if she understands how tired I'm getting. I can only tolerate so much drama. I want her roles to develop but I wish I wasn't the crutch. I wish we could create something together. Getting it off my chest helps, I know I should express my concerns more but I just don't want to insult her or her ideas, they're interesting but I hate it being so one sided. *sighs*EDIT - I wasn't sure where the topic was or if this was this "open" so erm sorry if I posted where I shouldn't have.

-_- I hate when people say less-than-cunning stuff. As a result, I will not be reading, or posting in this thread ever again, so long as I remain a humble member of your community.

Scenario:
I create an RP. Along with that RP, I have created a character. Through this process, I have found a role for my character, in my RP. I've fleshed out that role some, because I've been working on this character, and some sort of containable plot to work with. As the creator of this world, setting, storyline, and character, that role has turned out to be fairly important.

Now I post this idea. Some newb who we shall call "Max" reads my RP idea. What he gets from it is, "This story is about my character, because that's the only part of it I've been able to work on, or flesh out at all, unless you want me to make your character, and designate his/her role in this story for you prior to your even reading this fucking thread..."

He gets angry, annoyed. He assumes I've created this plot and RP for one purpose, to throw him and his character under the bus.

Reality:
Max is so weak creatively, he cannot see or even stretch the imagination to find any way he could create a character within that plot and setting with a solid role and impact on the story, and/or has problems not being a vocal point of interest most of the time.

It's up to YOU to design, and incorporate your own fucking character, with his/her own role in the story, as big or little as you want!

Every story has a main character, a vocal point of interest or focus. Every story has a Cloud... Does that make Aeris, Sepheroth, or Cid's roles ANY weaker, less important, or rewarding??

NO! Not unless YOU have to be the strongest, smartest, most respected, feared, skillful, grand and most paid attention to, in every RP you join.

---

Insecure male writers are the bane of our craft.

OutlawTorn said
Insecure male writers are the bane of our craft.

Fixed that for you.

On that note, I finally have something to contribute to this thread, despite my initial lack of support for the very idea of this thread.

I decided to join a 1x1 roleplay, because I had a hankering for a decent plot without the restrictions of a public thread-based roleplay. Things got off to an okay start, though my partner's character was a tad Marry Sue. Then I got a bit distracted by some other stuff. About thirteen hours passed without my giving a response. That's not even a whole day. To put that in perspective, I work twelve hour shifts.

So, this unnamed person kind of jumps the gun by stating that "I Guess you aren't so interested in the rp anymore...I can take a hint..."

Now, this really put me off. I don't like feeling pressured to write a response, especially when I'm still within what is generally accepted as a reasonable timeframe.

So basically, this girl's insecurity came off as a little too overbearing, which killed any drive to make a story with her for me, hence my slightly snide response to what you said above, Torn.

Insecure females are far less of a blight (but still a blight, no less) on our craft, my friend. But I see your point. No need to single out an entire gender based on that 30-40% who give us all a bad name.

OutlawTorn said
No need to single out an entire gender based on that 30-40% who give us all a bad name.

Agreed.

Thus brings an end to my reign of common sense and logic.

Hopefully ushering in a new era of thinking a little harder before posting... But I remain sceptical, at best.

OutlawTorn said
-_- I hate when people say less-than-cunning stuff. As a result, I will not be reading, or posting in this thread ever again, so long as I remain a humble member of your community.:I create an RP. Along with that RP, I have created a character. Through this process, I have found a role for my character, in RP. I've fleshed out that role some, because I've been working on this character, and some sort of containable plot to work with. As the creator of this world, setting, storyline, and character, that role has turned out to be fairly important.Now I post this idea. Some newb who we shall call "Max" reads my RP idea. What he gets from it is, "This story is about my character, because that's the only part of it I've been able to work on, or flesh out at all, unless you want me to make your character, and designate his/her role in this story for you prior to your even reading this fucking thread..."He gets angry, annoyed. He assumes I've created this plot and RP for one purpose, to throw him and his character under the bus.:Max is so weak creatively, he cannot see or even stretch the imagination to find any way he could create a character within that plot and setting with a solid role and impact on the story, and/or has problems not being a vocal point of interest most of the time.It's up to YOU to design, and incorporate your own fucking character, with his/her own role in the story, as big or little as you want!Every story has a main character, a vocal point of interest or focus. Every story has a Cloud... Does that make Aeris, Sepheroth, or Cid's roles ANY weaker, less important, or rewarding??NO! Not unless YOU to be the strongest, smartest, most respected, feared, skillful, grand and most paid attention to, in every RP you join.Insecure male writers are the bane of our craft.

Except he was saying the other RPer was, apparently from the post, twisting everything into some form of tragedy about their character.

So you know what you do?

You learn from your mistakes and bad choices. You don't waste 5 minutes of your life posting to bitch about it because your indecisive nature is obviously bothering you on a deep, profound level.

The point I was trying to make, and the point that slipped straight over your head (evidently), is that if you're a mature, talented, versatile writer, playing a supporting role to a more pivotal role shouldn't be a problem.

Or again, do you have to have 50-100% of the limelight, all the time?

You post here to helplessly whine about the troubles you face as a creative writer. I'm just trying to help you better understand and properly deal with the stuff you put out there, placing yourselves at the mercy of passers by with 2 cents to throw in the proverbial tin cup.

You don't like logical solutions to your immortal problems, don't share 'em.

---

If I had half the problems half of you have RP'ing, I'd be a published novelist by now. But I guess it's just me... ??

OutlawTorn said

I think it's a little different when doing a 1x1 roleplay. I'm far from an expert on the subject, as I usually work with a group, but when I'm doing a 1x1, I try to work around a plot that can allow both characters a spot in the limelight. If you want to write for a main character that gets all of the development and hogs the limelight, then write a novel, instead of creating a roleplay. A roleplay is a bit different from writing another type of narrative, in that other people are involved. People want to feel included, it's a pretty basic sentiment. Aside from sheer vanity, I can't imagine why you'd want to roleplay as a main character and have underdeveloped side-characters be played out by other people.

As a disclaimer, I'm not saying it's difficult to play a non-main 'side-character', I'm just asking why you would want to. It seems as if it would be less interesting for both parties involved. I have to imagine that the only reason you would want somebody else to roleplay a sort of 'side-character' would be sheer vanity.

EDIT: That said, it was odd circumstantial coincidence that drove me to post in this thread in the first place, and I certainly don't intend to get too involved, so I'm going to bow out.

Not even. I thoroughly enjoy playing characters that aren't necessarily the alpha dog in terms of attention and general importance.

Weak role players always feel they've got to fight harder for prominence. Have you ever sat back and watched 2 or more young males have a pissing contest in an RP you've been in? It's so pathetic you almost feel embarrassed for them.

A sign of a good writer is being able to be that guy who isn't always the strongest, smartest, not always the one taking action, saving the day, but at the same time, be able to engineer a vital, important, rewarding place in the over-all story. Sometimes the most rewarding characters aren't the alpha protagonists, or alpha antagonists.

It's all a matter of what kind of story teller you are, and what sorts of characters you can make.

---

Versatility and maturity. Find it within your co-writers (via writing samples, character sheets, or conversations), or don't role play with them.

---

EDIT: I feel like Mr. Miyagi teaching Daniel karate here... I've only been role playing for 8 years. I know some battle hardened veterans who's very souls would be crushed if they ever saw this thread. Because the lack of experience which emanates from it is enough to make a passionate creative writer who loves nothing more than telling stories lose all faith and hope in the future of the art form.

Let me just elaborate using a tangible example.

A Legacy Written In Blood. This is a mystery/horror RP I'm doing right now.

Samuel Blithe is the main character of this story, hands down, no contest.

But wait... Samuel Blithe doesn't even appear until like 10 posts in. O_o And we start off with this Owen guy, and his girlfriend Allison.

Weird, huh? Downright fucked up! If Samuel Blithe is without a doubt the central character focus, shouldn't he be in the very first post, killing someone, seducing a girl, or asserting his dominance and presence somehow?

No, because Owen is also a VERY important character, with an amazing, very rewarding journey within this story.

Then there's Lucavi! Haha!!! You won't even know who Lucavi is until a long way into the story. But Lucavi is probably the second most important character in this story. He's also extremely powerful, on a social, political, and physical level. He's a representative of The Order, which means he basically cannot be fucked with, unless you're stupid, or suicidal and too cowardly to do it yourself.

Is Lucavi a god-mod character? No, despite what newbs may think, he's a necessary antagonist force. Interestingly enough, Lucavi turns out to be more of a neutral, almost protagonist role.

See, Sam is a member of the Drakul Covenant in Blackwater, which are friends with the neighboring Fletcher Covenant in New Haven. Gabriel Fletcher (Master of the Fletcher Covenant) is killed, and Sam is framed for the murder.

This provokes Adrian Fletcher, son of Gabriel, to declare war on the Drakul camp.

When this happens, Lucavi shows up looking for Sam.

So with all of this shit going on, how oh how could you possibly fit a character of any importance into that?

Well what about Allison, Owen's (ex)girlfriend, (ex by now because Alison and Owen broke up, and now Alison and Sam are together) who by the time the second story starts, has become the most powerful character in the story.

Or Elizabeth May Drakul, eldest daughter of Vlad Drakul.

Or Alucard Drakul, only son of Vlad Drakul.

Hell, Vlad himself!!! He's not very present in the story, but he's one hell of a role! The man behind the myth, The Impaler himself!

Or Hunter & Calib, who were behind the killing of Gabriel Fletcher all along, and now plan to rise from the shadows of the wilderness and wage war on the now weakened Covenants.

Or Michael Lancaster and Wyland McRae, who are hired by The Order to "liquidate" the entire Drakul Covenant after things get really messy toward the end of the first story...

Then there's one of my favorites, Preacher. Literally a fly on the wall, yet one of the most engrossing, interesting, rewarding characters I've ever made...

---

There's no excuse for not being able to fit a good, important character into a plot, regardless of what's been established, who's who, and what's what.

I could STILL fit more characters into Legacy. That's why there are at least 2 more RP's after Rising.

Whilst not all characters need to be in the centre of the spotlight, and indeed it's beneficial and important for a story to not just have that, with characters fulfilling important roles on the sidelines (whilst still attaining their own spotlight when the moment is right and shared between the characters and players across the length of the rp), when it comes down to a 1x1 roleplay you generally tend to expect both players to have their characters be equal, and not have one character serve as nothing more then a prop and support to all of the other characters' problems. If you think it's fine within a 1x1 for an RPer to have the story revolve all around their character and have their partner do little else but prop the other character and their story up with no consideration for their own, then... I dunno what to say. Read Genkai's post again. I mean, you might be more then happy with this in your rp, but then again you're the only player actually in that rp, so...

The condescending tone and attitude is getting to be a bit ridiculous and getting to be too much. It's unnecessary and unneeded.

In no way did I say I feel that sort of behaviour is vindicated.

But when something like that happens, it's as easy as saying, "Goodbye!" and respectfully quitting the project.

It shouldn't haunt and bother you to the point where you come here to fire off a lengthy rant about how much this bothers you on a human level.

Next time, do more to ensure that you and this person are a good fit, and you're on the same page plot-wise before even getting started on your IC.

---

And I'm sorry you feel that way, Pachamac. But the inexperience and lack of conviction around here is getting ridiculous. I was asked to come here, with the promise of the finest RP site the world has to offer.

And I'm beginning to feel like a fool for it!

When you have people saying things like, "No one can play a canon character but the creator(s)." Something is deeply, deeply wrong.

Outlaw Torn said And I'm sorry you feel that way, Pachamac. But the inexperience and lack of conviction around here is getting ridiculous. I was asked to come here, with the promise of the finest RP site the world has to offer.

And I'm feeling like a fuckin' fool for it!

Then look for another forum? I don't want to be the kind of person who tells someone to leave, but if you're unhappy about this forum to the point where you claim you're a 'fucking fool' for being on here and are yourself going into long rants about points other people are making and being condescending about it then perhaps this isn't the place for you.

Chill out, man.