Magic Magnum said
I know, but it's the sheer quantity of girls who fall for things such as Twilight or 50 shades of Grey. It's not a handful of people with one of 1000's of turn ons. It's a very large if not majority sized portion of the female sex.

Because Twilight was aimed at young girls and 50 Shades of Grey has a metric fuckton of fetishes in it. It's hard not to find one you don't like in there, honestly. (That doesn't mean you'll enjoy reading it though.)

Literally Twilight is two extremely beautiful boys who are badass and yet soft and caring and blah blah blah, fighting over you Bella. It shouldn't be surprising that young girls like that in the same way that many guys fantasize about having two women obsessively wanting to be with him. The difference is that women tend to be more emotional, men tend to be more physical, and that's because of biology.

Again, this is very, very normal. I want to stress that.

I never argued it wasn't normal, that kind of was my argument actually.
I'm just concerned about the wellbeing/healthiness of the kinds of minds that actually enjoy such abusive relationships just cause the guy looks cute and can be nice sometimes.
>.<

Magic Magnum said
I never argued it wasn't normal, that kind of was my argument actually.I'm just concerned about the wellbeing/healthiness of the kinds of minds that actually enjoy such abusive relationships just cause the guy looks cute and can be nice sometimes. >.<

I hope I'm just not understanding you properly, because what you seem to be implying is the inability of women and girls to distinguish reality and fiction. The same argument, targeted largely at boys and men (by the media or "concerned" parents) regarding violence in video games is just as inane an argument.

Magic Magnum said I never argued it wasn't normal, that kind of was my argument actually.I'm just concerned about the wellbeing/healthiness of the kinds of minds that actually enjoy such abusive relationships just cause the guy looks cute and can be nice sometimes. >.<

Okay... Let me reiterate this one more time.

It's a fucking fantasy. Fantasy. There's nothing else to it. There's utterly nothing wrong with it. Whatsoever. At all. That has been my point this whole time. I don't know how you're still missing that when I've blatantly told you that it's normal, it's widely prolific, it's something quite literally everyone on the planet does. Including you. From sadists to masochists to everything in-between, we all have our fantasies, light and dark, romantic and twisted, and we have dozens, if not hundreds of them. Each. That grow and change over time as our tastes grow and change and our mentalities change.

It's healthy to explore your fantasies in a purely fictional and imaginative way. It's a way to explore yourself and understand who you are, which allows you to better adapt to new situations and even start relationships with other people.

Simply put Gwazi: Stop judging women for what the fuck they enjoy. That's actually incredible sexist. Just let women enjoy whatever the hell fantasy they want to, even if it's lolipop gumdrops and dark chocolate making out over cloud number nine. Because it's a fantasy. A FANTASY! IT'S A COOKBOOK! A COOKBOOOOK!

Sheesh.

Guys, this was honestly meant to be an off-hand side note about a personal concern I see with it.
It wasn't meant to be a "Why do you think women can't think for themselves!" thing this seems to be exploding into.

Vanq said I hope I'm just not understanding you properly, because what you seem to be implying is the inability of women and girls to distinguish reality and fiction. The same argument, targeted largely at boys and men (by the media or "concerned" parents) regarding violence in video games is just as inane an argument.

No, I'm voicing a concern that an abusive relationship is even a fantasy for such a large portion of people.

Brovo said Okay... Let me reiterate this one more time.. . There's nothing else to it. There's utterly nothing wrong with it. Whatsoever. At all. That has been my point this whole time. I don't know how you're missing that when I've blatantly told you that it's normal, it's widely prolific, it's something quite literally does. Including you. From sadists to masochists to everything in-between, we all have our fantasies, light and dark, romantic and twisted, and we have dozens, if not hundreds of them. . That grow and change over time as our tastes grow and change and our mentalities change.It's healthy to explore your fantasies in a purely fictional and imaginative way. It's a way to explore yourself and understand who you are, which allows you to better adapt to new situations and even start relationships with other people.Simply put Gwazi: Stop judging women for what the fuck they enjoy. That's actually incredible sexist. Just let women enjoy whatever the hell fantasy they want to, even if it's lolipop gumdrops and dark chocolate making out over cloud number nine. Because it's a fantasy. A FANTASY! IT'S A COOKBOOK! A COOKBOOOOK!Sheesh.

I only highlighted women here because that is demographically the majority of it's fan base.
My points would have also applied to any men who were the same as well.

I completely get the whole fantasy and exploring fantasy to grow thing. And I get people separating fantasy from real life.
But when it starts to turn into self such as "I totally relate to Bella", it starts to suggest more at play. I mean when have you ever heard a gamer say something like "I relate to Duke Nukem" or some other character that's clearly meant to be an exaggerated/fantasy experience, where if you behaved such way in the real world... it wouldn't be good.

Honestly though, I do not get how being concerned that people are turned on enough by an abusive relationship that they start to say they relate to it in the real world... I don't see how that's sexist.

Magic Magnum said Guys, this was honestly meant to be an off-hand side note about a personal concern I see with it.It wasn't meant to be a "Why do you think women can't think for themselves!" thing this seems to be exploding into.

Because it's exactly what you're saying.

Magic Magnum said No, I'm voicing a concern that an abusive relationship is even a fantasy for such a large portion of people.

It is. In case you failed to notice that massive wiki list I gave you, there are tons of insane fantasies. Literally hundreds. Potentially thousands. This is honestly extremely tame compared to what's out there, that thousands of people enjoy. Every. Day.

Magic Magnum said I only highlighted women here because that is demographically the majority of it's fan base.My points would have also applied to any men who were the same as well.

It's still an insane point. It's on the same tangent as violent video games making people into violent killers. It's literally the exact same argument.

Magic Magnum said I completely get the whole fantasy and exploring fantasy to grow thing. And I get people separating fantasy from real life.But when it starts to turn into self such as "I totally relate to Bella", it starts to suggest more at play.

No it doesn't. O.o Relating to a character is perfectly normal. It means you understand that character and share personal traits or ideas. I relate to the Zerg's desire for constant growth, change, and food. For fucks sake, that doesn't mean I want to be a man eating bioplague monster in real life.

Magic Magnum said I mean when have you ever heard a gamer say something like "I relate to Duke Nukem" or some other character that's clearly meant to be an exaggerated/fantasy experience, where if you behaved such way in the real world... it wouldn't be good.

... Yes. All the time. Commander Shepard, who is responsible for murdering countless hundreds by his/her hand, yet people are attached to this character. Mordin helped engineer a bioplague, people liked his character and related to him. Thane is an assassin, Jack is a psychotic killer, so on and so forth. Relating to a person or character just displays that you have the capacity to either understand their plight on an intellectual level, or that you feel an empathetic connection to them. It doesn't mean you want to be like them, and even if you want to be like them, that doesn't imply that you want to do everything they do.

I like Jim Raynor from Starcraft. I relate to his can-do attitude, his depression, and his refusal to quit even when shit gets pretty dark. However, I'd never want to be an alcoholic, gun toting, rebellion leading, mass murderer... Which is what Jim Raynor is.

Do you see the point yet? Do you see how ludicrous this argument is yet? Just because I can relate to something, or understand something, or even like something that is inherently twisted or disturbing or evil (like the Zerg), that doesn't then make me want to be that in real life.

Remember that Twilight Fans have a hell of a lot of other stuff that they read and watch too. Twilight is just a thing they like and potentially obsess over due likely to emotional immaturity. This doesn't mean they don't also like other things with more respectable characters.

Magic Magnum said Honestly though, I do not get how being concerned that people are turned on enough by an abusive relationship that they start to say they relate to it in the real world... I don't see how that's sexist.

It was sexist in the context that you were specifically talking about women specifically liking 50 Shades of Grey and Twilight because they have abusive relationships in them, like that despite it being normal, there's something inherently wrong with that fantasy in particular and not, say... Rape fantasies, fantasies about fucking animals, or tentacles, or god knows whatever else. The worst one you can pick is the abusive relationship fantasy. Which is, by the way, a power fantasy, which is extremely common in people. (Subs and Doms for example.)

It's just inane nonsense. And I'm attacking it because it's an insane standard that you can't reasonable hold any adult to, leave alone the young tweens that often get suckered by this shit. Best they fall for it now and learn from it over time (and most do) rather than have this shit happen to them in the real world. Because, again, a fantasy is at worst harmless, at best you learn something. Get it yet? Please?

Brovo said Get it yet? Please?

*sigh*

Yea, I get it.
I'm probably just got to used to (personal experience) the typical twilight fan not being that rational and/or causing drama all the time.
But there wasn't a similliar trend among those who say play violent video games, so the double standard of the argument never dawned on me.

Though I feel the need to note at least (This isn't arguing your point, just noting something).
Characters like Shepard, Thane, Mordin, Jack etc. at least had redeeming qualities. Trying to save the Galaxy, Only assassinated bad people, regretted making the genophage, subject of horrid experiments etc.
Bella though... Bella has nothing.

Bella is girl in loove. Who is there solely for the reader to be able to put themselves into the scenario. She is one oif the DOOM guy of romantic litterature. Also she is modeled after writer herself.

Brovo said
Because Twilight was aimed at young girls and 50 Shades of Grey has a of fetishes in it. It's hard not to find one you don't like in there, honestly. (That doesn't mean you'll enjoy reading it though.)

Literally Twilight is two extremely beautiful boys who are badass and yet soft and caring and blah blah blah, fighting over Bella. It shouldn't be surprising that young girls like that in the same way that many guys fantasize about having two women obsessively wanting to be with him. The difference is that women tend to be more emotional, men tend to be more physical, and that's because of biology.

Again, this is very, very normal. I want to stress that.

And I'd like to stress that Brovo isn't normal, and we all appreciate that very much over here.

I relate to the Zerg's desire for constant growth, change, and food. For fucks sake, that doesn't mean I want to be a man eating bioplague monster in real life.

I could probably find a few people wishing that were not the case.

...

This wouldn't be about the film, "Fifty Shades Of Sasha Grey" would it? I think you mislabeled the thread.

Foster said And I'd like to stress that Brovo isn't normal, and we all appreciate that very much over here.

Foster said I could probably find a few people wishing that were not the case....

Most probably.