Sorry for last post, guys. Like I said I'm stressed/exausted beyond belief right now - I was out of line.

I'm going to be stepping back from this conversation and GamerGate as a whole dkr a few days - It Isn't helping my mental health, and you have my apologies for snapping like that.

Peace.

Also, Brovo - A cuckhold is just someone being cheated on who doesn't know when others do. It comes fro, the term 'wearing the cuckhold's horns.'

Dipper said
Sorry for last post, guys. Like I said I'm stressed/exausted beyond belief right now - I was out of line.I'm going to be stepping back from this conversation and GamerGate as a whole dkr a few days - It Isn't helping my mental health, and you have my apologies for snapping like that.Peace.

Good. Relax, drink, and be merry, and if you want someone to talk to, you know I'm here.

On a more positive note

These are just perfect! XD

They are well written. But add nothing but ridicule to the situation, making the makers look worse in any sane light. Something you don't want, if you ever want to be taken seriusly by the other side. What it does is to paint you as someone with nothing to really add.

But hey. Each to their own.

Cis-fire was pretty damn good though. That was some clever rewriting. Made me chuckle.

Hellis said They are well written. But add nothing but ridicule to the situation, making the makers look worse in any sane light. Something you don't want, if you ever want to be taken seriusly by the other side. What it does is to paint you as someone with nothing to really add. But hey. Each to their own.Cis-fire was pretty damn good though. That was some clever rewriting. Made me chuckle.

Obviously videos like that hold no weight in actual discussion/debate, but they're meant for humor and that's what we use them for. Humor, to get a laugh. Not to be used as an argument in the way we may reference a InternetArtistocrat, Thunderf00t or Factual Feminist video.

Though honestly you should be telling the other side what you just said here, since they're actually going ahead and making joke/song videos out of the Factual Feminists video and using that as an actual argument rather than simply being a joke. >.<

But yea, I went ahead and watched a bunch of the /v/ songs and the Cis-Fire one is my favourite by a large amount. :P

The other side is not really represented in here now is it? it's been all GamerGate, boh anita from the get go. Anyone arguing against have been met with quite the hostility. So I only point to those present. Other places with less of a over representation are met with a different treatment, I assure you. Places like tumblr is skewed towards the other side, only the format doesn't make for very good debates when you are dealing with micro-blogs. So half my responses on there is "God, why do you keep making yourself look like idiots." That and most of them are so cought up in themselves that debating with them is impossible.

Tidbit;

Factual femminist is about as bad as Anita though. Its a conservetive think tank with none of what she say is anything new or fact based. It's a bunch of conservatives banking on the naivity of the GamerGate community when it comes to this. Seriusly. Did you watch it, they threw images around willy nilly like it was suppose to correlate with the point she was making. None of them did. And then she bascily ends with "Guys are guys", the single most apolegetic non-argument in the history of gender debate. It is cheap pandering, nothing actually factual about her. In fact, i find it dangerous in a way. its trying to appropriate the word Femminism to a conservetive, appologist standard. I rather see it associated with some progressive, albait crazy peole then the "roll over, men are right to act like assholes" vibe I feel from FF. They are not providing you with insight, they are providing you with propaganda bankrolled by conservetive groups.

And they are able to reach people becouse of the crazies on the other side of the argument that alienate alot of people. Hence why I do not like SWj in general. It creates "us vs them." Its so easy to exploir for other groups.

Okay! Great news, everyone - Intel pulled their adds from Gamasutra after they learned about how Leigh Alexander, one of their lead reporters have been treating Gamers, as well as making racist remarks.

Even better news - CNN reported it neutrally.

Even better great news? Anti-Gamergate people got caught trying to flag the article as 'inappropriate'

Even better great amazing news? They failed.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1175414

That is Gamasutra, and Rock Paper Shotgun we've damaged badly - RPS is literally begging for donations because all but 1 of their sponsors have left them.

Yes, Gamesutra is totally not one of the best sources for actual gamedev information. To put it simply, this should not be a victory to any gamer. If you are really a gamer, you would not be happy over Intel pulling their sponsorship from a site that's been fundemental to gamedevelopers, indie and otherwise, since its inception. Becouse Gamesutra is one of the single most proffesional and leading sites when it comes to gamedevelopment and covering it, Alex not withstanding. It is were actual gamedevs go, where they discuss and write about their craft. Now, I can say for certein alot of gamedevs are gonna be very afraid or angered with you guys. Not journalists, game developers.

The fact that you show such malice Dipper, scares me. I thought this was about making a difference, not ruining things? You look more like someone who is bullying then a "freedom" fighter at the moment.

Meanwhile sites like Kotaku is gonna go unscathed. Becouse they have a shit-ton of supporters, who rely on them for Japanese coverage.

And please, for the love of god. Don't use Ghandi pictures. Your cause is nowhere near the magnitude or importance. Don't insult the legacy of such a great man.

Why isn't this movement targetting IGN? They are known to go hand in hand with big game companies. I thought it was about fighting corruption. Why only the ones that are targets, forefronts for progressive thinking, femminism and anti-sexism? I know of course, why. The targets are those who did the "Gamers are dying" angle. But atleast be honest and don't hide behind "we are trying to weed out the corruption" if that's the case. They are targeting dissenters. Its a internet slapfight with harming, legit harmfull effects on the buisness as a whole.

Hellis said Why isn't this movement targetting IGN?

Likely because IGN doesn't write articles with the purpose of insulting it's following. They totally should target them, though, but it's the same as everything else. Ego>all.

Regardless, despite the collateral damage being potentially massive, you can't grow healthy crops on a poison ground. I think it is for the best in the long term if lessons are learned (pleasepleaseplease,) but the wake this whole ordeal left is a special kind of toxic now.

I really don't want to get into the debate any further because I feel debating this extensively is the literal equivalent of slitting one's own wrists and I like myself too much to hurt me. I'll take my stupid soapbox and leave now. Please don't make me hurt myself.

I kind of agree with everything you just wrote Kestrel.

I used the Ghandi picture because it is highly apperpo to what is happening. First thwy iored us, then they laughed at us calling us misogonerds, and telling us that our identity is dead. And yes, normally while I would mourn the loss of a website like Gamasutra, when they allow a writer to act like this, [spoiler] [/spoiler] it is not bullying to write to their advertisers and complain. There are a great many other websites that would gladly fill the void and replace them. That is why it is a good reason to not actively inaukt your readers and shove unwanted pseudo-political bullshit down their throat, you might very well be replaced. That is a consumer revolt, and that is what GamerGate essentially is. Why should we patronize a website that allows one of their lead writers to threaten and insult hopeful game developers and hopeful game journalists? Why should we tolerate a website that refuses to deal with a woman who refers to less fortunate, impoverished black men as 'Hood men' as a strange euphemism for Nigger, and wants to have a VIOLENT cultural backlash against such 'hood men'? Here is a screen cap of her racist tweet: [spoiler][/spoiler]

Here are three articles of people being fired for making racist tweets - All three of them deserved to be fired - And had their companies not fired them, there would have been a very large and deserved backlash against the businesses they worked for. Is Leigh Alexander and Gamasutra somehow immune to the Internet's reaction to racism because they cover video games? Without me shoving words into your mouth it seems that you think so.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/22/pr-exec-fired-racist-tweet-aids-africa-apology
http://www.laughspin.com/2014/07/04/anthony-cumia-fired-why-racist-twitter-rant-led-to-firing-from-opie-and-anthony-siriusxm-show/
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/09/10/pax_dickinson_business_insider_cto_forced_out_for_sexist_racist_tweets.html

You and I both known that we should not, and no one should tolerate racism. Why should we tolerate her racist views? Why should we tolerate the website that allows her to write attack piece after attack piece, as well as click bait articles, not to mention her racist views? Does her 'malice' scare you as well, Hellis? Ruining the dreams of people because they disagree with her, and bragging about it? Saying she wishes she could start a racist cultural backlash against 'hood men' from the ghetto? Or does the fact you said that 'Alex not withstanding' somehow absolve Gamasutra of condoning her actions by not taking action against them?

As for game devs and game dev groups being worried of angering their player base, have you heard of Mighty No.9? Was supposed to be an amazing game, a true, spiritual sucessor to Megaman. It looked amazing - I donated to the Kickstarter. But guess what? Dina, the community manager, (who got herbjob through nepotism...) decided that the backer rewards shouldn't belong to people who helped fund their game if they disagreed with her. And when the backlash got bad enough, and Dina's actions got more and more outrageous, such as demanding that the genderless main character (its a fuckng robot, it doesn't have X or Y chromosones) be turned female because she wanted it to be, and getting her boyfriend to try to make them change it because someone who wasn't honestly involved in the project wanted it changed (Something that would set them back quite a while...), and people began saying they wanted to refund the money they gave to help make the game, she told them 'tough shit". That isn't how a successful company works - alienating their backers/investors because "whelp, my girlfriend who has no experience in community managing needs a job, so we best keep her on despite that our backers are backing out because of her inappropriate actions."

Unlike RPS, Kotaku, Gamasutra and Polygon, IGN writers did not get game developers to sleep with them in return for good reviews. Do you remember 'Doritogate', a few years back, the rather large gaming backlash against IGN's obvious corruption and selling out to MTN. Dew? Or the backlash against them(And EA and Bioware) when EA put one of their reporters into Mass Effect 3 (And spent more time and effort sculpting her high polygon-count ass instead of Her character's face, personality, or more importantly - Tali'zorah vas Normandy (An incredibly popular character/love interest)'s face?) Pepperidge Farm Remembers I remember. Do you? Maybe the reason we aren't going after them, at this time, is because IGN didn't take part in the attempted censorship?

Nah, has to be that we're just going after dissenters, because we gamers are megaphones, we're much less kind than casual players and we won't mind making an example out of dissenters. Its also funny how these 'gaming journalists' act like they can tweet bullshit at us gamers, as if we can not kill their careers and companies. They need to learn to say 'we've messed up and have a lot to learn, we apologize".

Hmm. Is it me, or does that sound strangely... Why does that remind me of... its like I've seen those three sentences before... Oh, now I remember.



Such progressive thinking. Let's start a race war, guys. Let's crush people's dreams for shits and giggles. Let's accuse all people who disagree with us of being white, cis het basement dwelling men. Let's call the minorities who disagree us 'weaponized minorities'. Let's write clickbait articles that alienate our customers. Nothing will happen to us, we're 'progressive feminist', not abusive assholes.

Sorry for double post, but...

Kestrel said
Likely because IGN doesn't write articles with the purpose of insulting it's following. They totally should target them, though, but it's the same as everything else. Ego>all.Regardless, despite the collateral damage being potentially massive, you can't grow healthy crops on a poison ground. I think it is for the best in the long term if lessons are learned (pleasepleaseplease,) but the wake this whole ordeal left is a special kind of toxic now. I really don't want to get into the debate any further because I feel debating this extensively is the literal equivalent of slitting one's own wrists and I like myself too much to hurt me. I'll take my stupid soapbox and leave now. Please don't make me hurt myself.

I'm sorry, but #GamerGate won't end any time soon. What we want is so this never happens again. I'd gladly, GLADLY go up against IGN if it comes to it as well as any other corrupt people ruining my hobby, my identity.

Weird how we're focusing on Zoe Quinn now when this kind of corruption has been self evident since Gamespot fired Jeff Gerstmann for his Kane and Lynch review in 2007. Good news I guess, weird that it took a woman cheating on her boyfriend for anyone to pay attention. (and she maybe got decent reviews for her tiny, free, choose your own adventure text game. Oh noooooooooooooooooooooo)

Also I think that guy has basically guaranteed he'll never get a date again. (From anyone who knows what he did)

IGN has been ruining game journalism for years. If you are genuine, you should claim you will instead of you would.

Also, how can someone ruin your identity? First gamer is not your full-blown identity in and of itself (at least I fucking hope not) but a part of it, and secondly your self-image or the label gamer isn't so weak it can be dismissed by tumblr-level tabloids. If anything the response has shown that they haven't even been close to being a threat to your identity.

I think exposing corruption is good, but there is so much drama and bullshit surrounding this I don't want a part of- okwait. No. Stop. I'm bleeding.

Fuck, I knew this would happen.

Chrononaut said
Weird how we're focusing on Zoe Quinn now when this kind of corruption has been self evident since Gamespot fired Jeff Gerstmann for his Kane and Lynch review in 2007. Good news I guess, weird that it took a woman cheating on her boyfriend for anyone to pay attention. (and she maybe got decent reviews for her tiny, free, choose your own adventure text game. Oh noooooooooooooooooooooo)Also I think that guy has basically guaranteed he'll never get a date again. (From anyone who knows what he did)

Zoe has been a non-issue for a while now. I named the thread back before #GamerGate had a name, when it was first starting and I wanted to know what was going on.
And oh yeah, oh noooo, her 'game' was free, but she was using it as a way to scam money for her fake GameJam and her patron account. Oh noooooooo, let's be sarcastic and unironically ignore the issues that are plaguing gaming, because 'muh soggy knee'!

Kestrel said
IGN has been ruining game journalism for years. If you are genuine, you should claim you will instead of you would.Also, how can someone ruin your identity? First gamer is not your full-blown identity in and of itself (at least I fucking hope not) but a part of it, and secondly your self-image or the label gamer isn't so weak it can be dismissed by tumblr-level tabloids. If anything the response has shown that they haven't even been close to being a threat to your identity.I think exposing corruption is good, but there is so much drama and bullshit surrounding this I don't want a part of- okwait. No. Stop. I'm bleeding.Fuck, I knew this would happen.

Fine, I fully intend to. Did you even read the part that I wrote about IGN in my big post?

What they have tried to so is split us on gender, race, creed, sexuality and other such things that were not our choice. We (Gamers) are not divided by our differences, we are united by the one common identity we all chose for ourselves. We won't have people we trust to tell us about games tell us we, the core players of video games - Are irrelevant, and that they need to cater to people like Anita, who don't even play games, or Jenn Frank, a female journalist who claims that women were just unable to comprehend anything N64 onwards because '3D is too confusing', and that their minds weren't ready for the switch from 2D.

I quote:

"By 1996, most of my female classmates had stopped playing video games. I think some of this had to do with societal pressures but the rest of it had to do with the Nintendo 64. Even now its controller is nonsense; in 1996 it was outright galling. Where had all these buttons come from? Why was it shaped like that? Why was there an analogue stick stuck in the middle of it?
Meanwhile, beloved franchises such as Mario and Zelda had shifted from two dimensions to three, and not every girl was readily able to adapt to these new spatial challenges."

Sauce: https://archive.today/bOP8Y#selection-1255.3-13884.0

We are gamers - Why should people like Anita, -who there is footage of her saying how she hates video games- Get to go to the makers of Mirrors Edge and say "Dumb it down, controls are too hard for women" when she doesn't even play?

Just because THEY had trouble switching to the N64 doesn't mean that women's brains aren't capable of playing 3D games.

Devi Evers did a few funny pictures about that article, I'll see if I can't find them so we can have a good laugh.

Well, I buy games and enjoy them very much so this is really not a problem for me. I've known games journalism was bullshit for a while and actively ignore it. Since I'm responsible for my own purchasing decisions and tend to make good ones, gaming journalism doesn't factor into how or when I buy things. Gaming journalism doesn't affect the quality of these games. The best way to find out whether a game will be fun is to find out what actual players say, instead of people forced into playing the games with a limited amount of time due to the time constraints of journalism.

I watch a series called extra credit that talks about gaming community issues from actual developers. This kind of stuffs a small fraction of the greater whole. https://www.youtube.com/user/ExtraCreditz