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Rayn Night said
Man, you guys are going H.A.M. on his Wall of text.

Here I thought I was going funny on his wall of text :<

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should be posting by tonight.

Also, this is starting to feel like a normal DnD session for me lol.

Raen Elvarasi said
Rayn, this is quite possibly the most sane conversation I have been involved in in this OOC. Everything is fine. >.> *Reminisces* It's okay, Kad, I still love you.

You should go see your local psychiatrist. Just saying.

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Raen Elvarasi said BTW, musket formations were only ranged....By the time muskets were being used, melee fighting was done using bayonets, on the end of muskets....

Not true. The earliest periods of musket warfare was typically Muskets, Cannons and Pike Regiments. It didn't last long, but the point remains.

Vanguard: Easily the largest and sturdiest of the group, consisting of a Minotaur and a Centaur, both able to cover large distances in a small amount of time, while remaining less agile than their smaller Blades. Though this means virtually no visibility beyond them, and no line of sight for ranged combatants, it creates a useful means of effective engagement, as they are going to be the first into any fight coming from the direction the group is headed in, thus allowing them to engage, occupy and keep the threats away from their less durable Blades and Co.

And the problem with that is that

A: Nobody can reinforce Murd and Gryff because nobody can get past.
B: Nobody can support Murd and Gryff, because nobody can shoot past.
C: Nobody can properly assess a threat because nobody can see past.

Murd and Gryff are powerful yes. But to put both of them in front is literally putting a wall in front AND depriving a heavy hitter from being able to counter a rear assault.

Defensive Line: Consisting of Trom and Florence, this duo, directly behind the Vanguard allows for a safety measure for Gremlock and acts as the secondary engagement party, allowing for quick reinforcement of Murd and Gryff.

They can't reinforce because they'd be incapable of getting to an enemy because Murd and Gryff are blocking the hall. And Gremlock can't attack because he can't see.

Rear Guard: Consisting of Nyla Aslo and Raen, this trio acts as a countermeasure from flanking assault, and is also the last to engage in frontal combat, giving Gremlock defensive support, and fitting in where needed most, and supporting their team.

And that team lacks a real heavy hitter to protect from the one direction that we know for a fact threats are coming from. We know that hostiles have access to the room we just left. Not having a heavy hitter at the back to help, and if the main attack comes from the rear, not only do you not have a heavy hitter at the back to help, you've literally got no way for them to get to the back to help.

I am also theorizing that, assuming the complex is logically built, the corridors connecting rooms won't be excessively long, else you defeat the purpose of a complex, as it becomes more of a network of tunnels at that point....I am assuming that we will first; not need ranged for such engagement, and second, not want our smallest companion to be the first into any situation, lest he become a primary target. Thus why I have probably never seen a CQC guy behind the marksman in a tactical formation. Maybe those Shield circles surrounding archers really were a terrible idea. Probably should have had the shield bearers behind the archers, so they could get a "Clearer shot"

That is a terrible terrible set of assumptions to make.
A: RPG dungeons ALWAYS have long corridors.
B: Never ever assume you 'not need ranged' Murphy's law.
C: The smallest companion is generally the BEST to send first into any situation. They're smaller (ergo harder to see) they're less threatening (ergo less likely to be targeted than the Centaur a few steps behind.
D: Shield Circles surrounding archers was actually VERY uncommon. The standard strategy of battles involving large amounts of archers was to advance the archers to the fore of the army. They would fire their salvoes, then move back behind the 'real troops'

You see the thing with archers, crossbowmen, musketeers, cannoneers, basilisks etc is that to be most effective they need to SEE the enemy. And if your archers are at the back of your force and can hit the enemy, then the ENEMY archers can hit ANYONE in your army. Where if he has his archers forward and can hit the enemy there is a reasonable chance that the rest of your own army is in fact out of range of the enemy archers. (x10 if you have the high ground.)

Raen Elvarasi said
Agreed. But it is also very easy to take advantage of, and thus weaken the team. That is why all my plans rely on a good defense to make a stable offense.

The issue is your plan is not a good defence. It's an entirely exposed defence that doesn't capitalise on the strengths of the team, but actually weakens the team by bad (but not worst possible) placement.

Raen Elvarasi said I learn from it, and it occupies my time. Tempest, you can easily avoid that by prioritizing other targets. Say there is a giant ass bat-monkey that nobody is close to. Shoot it. And the thing with muskets, is they are not going to be accurate. Sure. If you are firing a gun in a tight location, you will probably hit someone you don't want to, because combat in small places is a clusterfuck anyway. Thus the musket is more of a field weapon. So yeah, if we want to get down to it, my idea is more defensive, with restricted offense concerning Grem. Kad's is a stronger ranged offense, with a lesser defense. Anyway, I am bored with this topic now.

The problem is your idea isn't more defensive. Because your plan makes it impossible for anyone to support the two forward-most individuals. It's actually a rather weak defence because you're putting a wall up front.

Raen Elvarasi said
Rayn, this is quite possibly the most sane conversation I have been involved in in this OOC. Everything is fine. >.> *Reminisces* It's okay, Kad, I still love you.

@amazon mission

How far are your collabs coming along? I don't have a huge amount of stuff to post about on my own, so if possible I'd rather follow you guys.

@ Kadaeux:

I have to say that NOPE Orbital Cannon is fantastic

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You want to put the two largest characters side by side in a smallish corridor... pray tell how you plan for them to move about with the ease you imply in such cramped conditions... or as Kad asked earlier "Just how big do you think that corridor is?"

Raen Elvarasi said
Battlefield tactics make the kind of ranged attacks applicable without the large chance of losing your archers for it.And actually, you are forgetting something...You can both move. You aren't an impassible wall. Thus a step and switch is easily done.

Even if that were so (Which it is not, you have a huge Minotaur and a near equally large centaur in question.), then you're invalidating your own argument, which was that our cannoneer could not quickly move back behind Gryff.

EDIT: Add in that I'd already had confirmation from Brovo early on in the mission that the corridor was only just big enough to accommodate them, and that was the entrance corridor. So while this corridor may be different, I wouldn't be betting my gold on it :p

Raen Elvarasi said
Battlefield tactics make the kind of ranged attacks applicable without the large chance of losing your archers for it.And actually, you are forgetting something...You can both move. You aren't an impassible wall. Thus a step and switch is easily done.

I am not even in this mission, and I can already say that this does not make sense.

1. You are NOT on a battlefield, where you can maneuver with enough ease without hindering formation/tactics. In corridors that can barely fit, it becomes much more than a skirmish as smaller beings will have the advantage to maneuver while large beasts like the Minotaur and the Centaur will have a hell of a hard time moving around.

1.1 The reason why battlefield tactics work is because you have officers yelling out orders and actions for the soldiers to take. The soldiers also have worked long together to get this kind of discipline and precision in their maneuvering. Here, you are talking about a band of misfits doing some work as a special unit without former training together.

1.2 Unless your group as a clear leader that barks out orders, battlefield tactics become shit as there is not tactics that you can be familiar with. So if you have the two in front being the big guys and don't leave no space, then sure in hell they won't bother with tactics that the two comrades are not familiar with.

2. Yes, both of those characters can move, but how much space can they actually give? The Minotaur could manage to go sideways and leave some space but the Centaur can't do shit, being half horse and half-humanoid. Even worst, the Centaur will have a hard time maneuvering with the type of body he has and would probably make it akward for him to do anything.

2.2 Even worst, if they did, it leaves them completely defenseless just to let that shot got hat might miss. Worthless. And in corridors, trust me they will take advantage of two guys trying to squeeze to let someone pass or shoot.

Edit: Also, what Gat and Kadaeux said :D

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Raen Elvarasi said
Rayn, you are a dumbass.

Well then, if you want to start insulting, we shall go there.

Let me time to review everything and I'll come back to you on everything flawed you have said so far.

we internet fight now? It's cool. I'll just wait this out.

Oh no no, not at all. Internet fighting is a pointless thing. All I want to do is make Raen realize his logic is flawed, that is all. I don't want an extended, 1-2 page debate/argument about something that probably could have been avoided. Remind that that I might also be wrong in my own opinion on the matter, but I highly doubt it. I will simply try to put some logic into everything he has just put out for their combat situation.

That is all. Nothing more, nothing less.

Guys, stop the cock waggling. Raen, stop antagonising people with insults veiled behind loose "aren't I so kooky?' comments.

Rayn, avoid indulging in this conversation because it is only feeding the fire.

More drama in ooc than Monday morning soap operas.

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