I do think the attitudes have gone a bit far in here. A productive comment would be more valuable than trying to "prove a point". Having a strong opinion is fine. Voicing it strongly? Also fine. Getting in somebody's face and making it personal...not fine.

I'm not a mod (and probably never will be), but I am a member here. I'd like to ask the folks in here to reel it in a little and try to get back to a productive conversation and not a pissing contest. That's not meant to be inflammatory; just a simple request. Ignore me if you like.

Feigling said
I thought you were genuinely asking the question 'Is RP guild dying'. Turns out this whole thread has degenerated into a slagging match where one side demands updates and fixes and the other side - myself included, looking back - defends ceaselessly.So, I'm going to sum this whole thing up: You don't like it? Leave. Too impatient to wait for updates? See ya. Want to bitch on a bout how the guild sucks and we should all leave and join Iwaku rather than sit it out? Please bugger off.All comments after this are redundant. Every point to be argued has been argued, No, the Guild is not dying, it is going through a slump. Yes, there are other sites with more features. No, I really couldn't care less about them. Can we please put this issue to bed?

Rare said

Let me direct you both to a certain part of a mod's post...

HeySeuss said
There is some wonderment why the mods didn't just step in and shut this convo down; that answer is simple. We didn't see anything rules-violating with the conversation and also figured (rightly) that some people probably wanted us to do precisely that so they could chant 'fascist!' I mean, I suppose we could come off as petty tyrant dicks and just close down a conversation that is, at times, critical, but that would be, in my mind, counterproductive. We all have a stake in this community, and feedback is a good thing. We'd be delusional to think we're doing the job perfectly around here and there aren't things we can change. Discouraging that sort of talk is essentially a shot to the foot.So we didn't shut down the topic and it's doubtful we will, because it's good to see people that feel strongly on an issue. Besides, I have something to add to the fray, but I've been holding off on writing it until I could phrase it in a way that I felt okay with, rather than just venting on a keyboard.

So yeah... Step it back and let's actually discuss these issues. The main problem is that there are issues that a large sum of people, even if they are a minority DO see than some feel like it should be discussed and talked about so we can (hopefully) find a way for US, as the community to be able to fix them. The main problem I'm seeing right now is that the community is splitting as a two sided coin when these issues are brought up and that there is A LOT of a lack of communication here. This is everyone in and out of this thread, including mods and admins. It is true, they do h ave lives that needs to be taken care of and they can't be here 24/7 and a good sum of our mods and admins have actual lives that take them from RPG for a very long time or prevents them from being on for long.

This thread overall was not about Iwaku Vs. RPG, both are really good in their own way and Iwaku does have it's own issues though because the Guild is currently under a very simple format it has more cause more can be done to it and it has a lot more promise than the already 99% finished Iwaku.The Guild's simplicity is good because it's an outline that can grow and become rather promising. It can be something that no other site has ever been or will ever be. It is it's own "thing" in other words.

Instead of being about Iwaku Vs. RPG, this thread is about certain issues that SHOULD be talked about in the community. It's not asking much more than "I've noticed some issues, what do you think? Where did they come from? Why are they here? What can WE do about it as a community and fix these issues?" While the OP might be a tad... off in asking these the overall premise of this thread are those exact questions and they are good ones. What CAN we do as a community to make the guild better and more fun for everyone? What CAN we do to keep people informed and have fun? What CAN we do to keep the sense of community that we all want to have stay the way we all want it to be?" While some issues we really don't have any option other than being patient and wait for Mahz to take care of them personally, there are many issues (Like RPGN being somewhat 'dead' due to the lack of members in it) that we CAN solve and fix to make the guild a bigger, better place than how some are seeing it right now.

Don't silence each other out when you could talk and communicate with one another and find out new solutions for the currently seen problems and maybe even find out some other problems that the guild might have that we should all talk about. It's better we do that than sit around and ignore their existence, which would only make things worse for everyone... Especially if we turn around and throw stones at anyone that does bring up these issues and makes us acknowledge their existence.

BlessedWrath said
I do think the attitudes have gone a bit far in here. A productive comment would be more valuable than trying to "prove a point". Having a strong opinion is fine. Voicing it strongly? Also fine. Getting in somebody's face and making it personal...not fine.I'm not a mod (and probably never will be), but I am a member here. I'd like to ask the folks in here to reel it in a little and try to get back to a productive conversation and not a pissing contest. That's not meant to be inflammatory; just a simple request. Ignore me if you like.

^^ This guy gets it.

Gold star to BlessedWrath

I've had some time to think about it. And some people to talk about it.. Looking back at these posts all I see is a flame that has burnt the forest apart. In all honesty the community relies on the people. The last thing we need to be doing is standing on our opinions and calling all the others inferior, that only makes the flames rise. I don't agree with what this topic has created. But the message the topic brought out I do agree with in my own fashion. The people starting this thread who you all are calling trolls and such are people who have been here for over a year and all. They see an issue and they wanted to throw it out there, how the ground was held, though, was awful. We argue like Democrats and Republicans. THIS ISN'T THE TIME FOR THAT. WE are the people of the community therefor we either make it or break it. As John F Kennedy once said Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country . Don't ask what the admins should be doing for us, dont ask about the updates, ask what WE AS THE PEOPLE can do for this community in order to keep it going.

THIS IS A TIME TO DETECT PROBLEMS NOT MAKE THEM.

Well, for the White Screen of Death (or whatever you all are calling it), from my own experience, I have found that NOT refreshing the page will prevent double and triple posts. Instead, I usually just close the page and reopen RPG. After a few minutes, my post will appear. I don't know if this is common knowledge or if this even covers the problems everyone else is dealing with (after I started doing the above, I really haven't had any issues with the white screen), but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

Also, follow the warning text that appears above the text book. :D

Edit: Wow, when I posted this, I got a "The Server is Down" message. Considering the content of this post, it would have been quite embarrassing if the error caused me to double post.

So, for those of you who seem confused about why people are upset with the current state of affairs on the Guild, here's a prime example of the problem:

"I'm taking a week off to work on the Guild." - Mahz, October 28, on the rp_guild twitter account

It's not just a matter of lack of features or lack of progress being made, it's largely a matter of empty promises. Due to how Mahz has decided to run the site everything hinges on him, and honestly he's not reliable for it. I am well aware that he has work and other obligations so he can't spend all his time on the Guild, but that doesn't really excuse the long track record of empty promises. Even back before Guildfall he made all sorts of promises about cool new features to come and then just never got around to it (anyone remember Roleplayer Cards?), so it's not like this is a new thing. Another great example of this happening is the numerous promises Mahz made to get a Contests section made on this iteration of the Guild. Brovo asked him to do it and Mahz said he'd get on it, then it never happened; I asked him to do it and he said it would be done within the month, then it never happened; after that at least one of the mods reminded him about the contests section when he popped into IRC and he said he'd make it soon, but it never happened; MDK tried to start a contest (after WOTM died due to being unable to function without a dedicated section) and asked for the section to be made and Mahz said he would do so, but again it never happened.

That kind of thing is draining on one's confidence that Mahz will actually improve things, especially when it happens over and over and over alongside months of no work being done at all. I would probably be better for overall morale if he never promised anything and just said he'll do stuff whenever he can get around to it. Asking what you can do for the site is cool and all, but when the answer is "nothing, because Mahz refuses to do any of the numerous things that could improve the site without putting all the burden on his shoulders" then you're left there with all your good intentions in mind and nothing to show for it. I put up with it for a good 9 months, but then the site got to the point where it was a struggle to post anything for about a week before it full on broke and then the only response was apparently a server reset, which didn't actually solve the major lag problems. There comes a time when brand loyalty dies in the face of facts, and that time has come for a lot of us.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just laying it out there for you guys to understand. If you still enjoy the site despite its flaws, awesome, have fun with it, that's what it's all about. Those of us who can't deal with it will just move elsewhere, no worries. There doesn't need to be any fight between the happy and the dissatisfied Guild people. Just understand that for the dissatisfied side it's not a bunch of pointless whining, it's a legitimate complaint about how the site is run.

Jorick said
So, for those of you who seem confused about why people are upset with the current state of affairs on the Guild, here's a prime example of the problem:"I'm taking a week off to work on the Guild." - Mahz, October 28, on the rp_guild twitter accountIt's not just a matter of lack of features or lack of progress being made, it's largely a matter of empty promises. Due to how Mahz has decided to run the site everything hinges on him, and honestly he's not reliable for it. I am well aware that he has work and other obligations so he can't spend all his time on the Guild, but that doesn't really excuse the long track record of empty promises. Even back before Guildfall he made all sorts of promises about cool new features to come and then just never got around to it (anyone remember Roleplayer Cards?), so it's not like this is a new thing. Another great example of this happening is the numerous promises Mahz made to get a Contests section made on this iteration of the Guild. Brovo asked him to do it and Mahz said he'd get on it, then it never happened; I asked him to do it and he said it would be done within the month, then it never happened; after that at least one of the mods reminded him about the contests section when he popped into IRC and he said he'd make it soon, but it never happened; MDK tried to start a contest (after WOTM died due to being unable to function without a dedicated section) and asked for the section to be made and Mahz said he would do so, but again it never happened.That kind of thing is draining on one's confidence that Mahz will actually improve things, especially when it happens over and over and over alongside months of no work being done at all. I would probably be better for overall morale if he never promised anything and just said he'll do stuff whenever he can get around to it. Asking what you can do for the site is cool and all, but when the answer is "nothing, because Mahz refuses to do any of the numerous things that could improve the site without putting all the burden on his shoulders" then you're left there with all your good intentions in mind and nothing to show for it. I put up with it for a good 9 months, but then the site got to the point where it was a struggle to post anything for about a week before it full on broke and then the only response was apparently a server reset, which didn't actually solve the major lag problems. There comes a time when brand loyalty dies in the face of facts, and that time has come for a lot of us.I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just laying it out there for you guys to understand. If you still enjoy the site despite its flaws, awesome, have fun with it, that's what it's all about. Those of us who can't deal with it will just move elsewhere, no worries. There doesn't need to be any fight between the happy and the dissatisfied Guild people. Just understand that for the dissatisfied side it's not a bunch of pointless whining, it's a legitimate complaint about how the site is run.

^

I've personally put off jumping in on this discussion because I know when I try and point some flaws out, I've been deemed the worst scum of the planet and need to freak off (putting it nicely) and as seen it still happens in this thread. I have read every post and there are some very good point, even some that aren't worded in the right way due to frustration. Jorick has hit some of the key points as to why I believe people are starting to 'move'. I have personally been on and off the guild since 2008. This was always my fall back to site when I got into a slum and needed a creative kick in the butt. Though, I find until some things start to improve or promises start to be fulfilled I'm mainly sticking around for the art section of the site. Any role plays I had on here have in fact been moved to a personal website I made for me and my role play buddies just so we can stay in contact, through the massive lags and other issues. Maybe we felt the need to move because of the lags, or the long hours the site could not be accessed that happened over and over again. Maybe this things made us fear so much of the guild falling again and thus losing everything again.

Drakel at the beginning of the the thread also had a great way of putting things in the right words. Hell I'm not even sure if I'm wording this right due to my own fears of being hated on without a good discussion or my own frustrations

I'm an older member so maybe that's why I'm so frustrated with the state of things right now. How I feel the site has almost been forgotten for months upon months. I understand people are busy, and have lives, but if that is the case, why can't someone help Mahz? Or even if he takes maybe an hour or two a week to pop in try and work on some things or even comment in threads like when this guild came up. We also can't fully attack the mods on this, for a mod only has so much power to do things. .

As to bring up things that have been nice, once people were able to get in contact with Mahz about the fall of the guild, he came around and worked his butt off to do something like that. The new style of the site is very nice, like the PMs and the tab system with IC and OCC being attached. There was also a rise of some new sections. Yes we are losing people, but that does happen with every site, there is also the fact to take in that many of the older members like myself are getting older and wont always be around. So no, I would not say the site is dying for people will always come and go. However, I believe that there is still some big things that need to be worked out. Even if we were to get a new thing once a month. Then again I have no idea how to create a site (Like it is being done) or how Mahz is doing it so maybe getting more improvements is a lot more work then I thought it would be. If so, tell us, maybe it will help people stop being so frustrating and thus raging, which leads to a huge battle of hatters . Even seen Mahz post here and there would be nice, it makes us feel like we're not being left behind or forgotten, it gives people some hope that in time things will get better. I understand that things take time, and no everyone has time, but if we're seeing the face (or username) of the person who has all the control of this site, then maybe people will not be as frustrated.

Also, one last note, maybe those who storm of in a rage filled goodbye on either the guild itself or on facebook are doing so, because they are hurt and frustrated that the cries for help or 'bitching' seemed to be ignored or promises once again weren't fulfilled. Or as was pointed out before A points out issue, B says okay, C points out issues B says we know, A comes back saying issue still isn't fixed followed by some random letter that says STOP BITCHING. It's a big cycle we keep running into.

Hopefully this was all said right, pretty sure I read it like six times before posting it, worrying about being attack. So if your anger and me or at the site or some other reason. Take a few deep breaths, do something else, come back and try to come out with a logical argument.

~Touch of Insanity

Touch of Insanity said
So if your anger and me or at the site or some other reason. Take a few deep breaths, do something else, come back and try to come out with a logical argument. ~Touch of Insanity

OP has had his fair share of personal attacks...witch i find too close to 4chan standards.

No, Touch. Folk won't attack you...hopefully

My only real point is be grateful for what you have, you could have a lot less, or not have had at all.

You know that feeling when you got all this stuff to say but ya can't find a way to say it? Thank goodness these previous posts after mine seem to point it out.

To those who picked a side and build their walls up to block everything else out, arguing and flaming one another : Shame on you. Take down those walls and come together ladies and gentlemen, review what each side has said carefully, then the main point will get across It's time to be grown and time to study ^.^

To the folks who aren't old guild and jumped in I can understand: It's like an ipod. To those who just got it it's amazing, to those who have had it for awhile spot out it's complications that start to surface.

Aeonumbra said
My only real point is be grateful for what you have, you could have a lot less, or not have had at all.

Except that saying doesn't work whatsoever in the context of an internet roleplaying forum like RPG, since there are numerous roleplaying sites across the internet that have active administrators, reliable coders and healthy communities---role-player.net and Iwaku just to name a few.

Presenting a forum to a specific user base is like trying to sell a product to a specific buyer demographic: 9/10, what you're selling isn't unique, and if your potential customers think your sale's pitch is sub-par and your product can't suit their needs, they're going to gobble up something superior. That's the boat RPG finds itself in at the moment--and it's going to progressively become worse.

My main gripe with RPG isn't the community, but with the exceedingly-annoying glitches (white screen glitch being a main one) that are suffered a perpetual state of wretched existence within the site's confines. Lack of basic forum features is another one.

Going to be honest, but if Mahz's workload is too much for him to handle, then he needs to hand the keys over to someone that's reliable. That or share the workload with someone.

No shame in taking the knee and requesting aid, mate.

Cartwright said
To the folks who aren't old guild and jumped in I can understand: It's like an ipod. To those who just got it it's amazing, to those who have had it for awhile spot out it's complications that start to surface.

*is still using a flip phone, with the extendable antenna*

What about the 1x1 sections? It seems like everyone just wants to do some kind of porno there, and everyone I've ended up doing a non porno 1x1 with ended up abruptly leaving and never returned.

To Henzukaya: NONE of my 1x1s here have been "porno." And the people I've done them with have had legit reasons to leave (and weren't active elsewhere on the site to draw suspicion). But you also pretty much said the same thing that happens on EVERY RP site; people like the naughty stuff. But that's hardly relevant to the topic, even though you're not the first to bring it up.

To Aeonumbra: I love your phone~

To ASTA: The "lack of basic features" I think is ideal for a site based on roleplaying. You don't need flashy colors, struck out words, etc., ever, really. Just write a quality post. Sort of like reading a book: if the writer is good, you won't need colors to separate who's talking or an inset picture. I can't address the white screen people are talking about, since it hasn't affected me, so I won't comment on that.But I agree with the "there's no shame..." part entirely. We really could use someone who knows what they're doing and has more time than Mahz helping him out. And donations would also help. But I'm not going to go on about that, since I said it earlier already. ^//^

To Cartwright: Basically the same thing I tried to say...poorly. My point may not even have come across at all. ^~^

To Missy: OP has. And those who did so were wrong to do so. But they also had some valid points, iirc. OP wasn't all too nice back to them to be a better person, but I don't blame...him/her. But people tend to be assholes everywhere because...wait...no...that's a different debate entirely. Too political (nothing to do with parties or anything, since that's what people usually think I mean when I say that. ^//^). Will stay away from that.

And finally, to Touch of Insanity: would you like some cwtches? I like to cwtch. Also, not sarcasm or judgment here. It can come across that way.

I'm actually almost 100% ok with this site. It's missing features, sure, but half the time I don't use any of said features anyways. The only thing that bugs me is the continued absence of A DELETE BUTTON. GAH.

Fortunately I don't participate in enough roleplays to make that an issue yet, but while the fact that most advanced features are missing does not bug me, the fact that some of the most basic features still remain unimplemented is a bit of an annoyance.

God I hope so, Casual has turned into free and advanced has turned into low casual.

Mr_pink said
God I hope so, Casual has turned into free and advanced has turned into low casual.

I think that's more on the responsibility of the GMs than on the site. Put your roleplays into the sections where they belong, and start booting people when they don't comply. Sometimes diplomacy requires a 2x4.

It would be nice if GMs posting roleplays which do not conform to the standards of the sections where they are posted would have their roleplays moved to the correct section, though. I don't know if that's the specific target of this complaint or not; I haven't really noticed one way or the other.

Really, though: Incorrectly categorized roleplays make you wish the site would die? I'm not poking at you; I just want to understand why you would feel that way.

BlessedWrath said
I think that's more on the responsibility of the GMs than on the site. Put your roleplays into the sections where they belong, and start booting people when they don't comply. Sometimes diplomacy requires a 2x4.It would be nice if GMs posting roleplays which do not conform to the standards of the sections where they are posted would have their roleplays moved to the correct section, though. I don't know if that's the specific target of this complaint or not; I haven't really noticed one way or the other.Really, though: Incorrectly categorized roleplays make you wish the site would die? I'm not poking at you; I just want to understand why you would feel that way.

It was more sarcastic than anything, It's not that I want the site to die really I'd just like it to go back the way it was. The worst part about the sort of 'unrestricted' sections is that I've seen many 1x1's in free and casual.

BlessedWrath said
I think that's more on the responsibility of the GMs than on the site. Put your roleplays into the sections where they belong, and start booting people when they don't comply. Sometimes diplomacy requires a 2x4.It would be nice if GMs posting roleplays which do not conform to the standards of the sections where they are posted would have their roleplays moved to the correct section, though. I don't know if that's the specific target of this complaint or not; I haven't really noticed one way or the other.Really, though: Incorrectly categorized roleplays make you wish the site would die? I'm not poking at you; I just want to understand why you would feel that way.

-

Mr_pink said
It's not that I want the site to die really I'd just like it to go back the way it was. The worst part about the sort of 'unrestricted' sections is that I've seen many 1x1's in free and casual.

I personally have never seen it happen, but if I ever do see 1x1s in the Free or Casual Sections, I can guarantee that I will just be sat there, with my face repeatedly hitting my keyboard like "Why."

Anywaaaay...On topic, A friend of mine showed me the old guild site quite some time ago and I never used it. I was too apprehensive to post and well, y'know, this lead to me never being active. And then say, about a month a go or so, she's like "Oh hey, Kyri, let's do an RP" and she linked me to here, the new site. Now honestly? I didn't think I'd ever start posting, making interest checks and having more RP partners than just her. But now here I am with at least seven roleplays going on, one which I'm the GM of, the other six being 1x1's, on this site. Those are just the seven that are solid stories, with interesting plots and the roleplay partners I'm with are writing at level that I'm comfortable with. I've had to wade through several roleplays where people were just writing too little, with bad grammar or they just upped and vanish.

It can hardly be called dead if I'm getting at least a post a day for all six of my 1x1's. And in response to "Everyone in the 1x1 section wants to do a porno" ...Yeah, well that's a lie since my golden rule of thumb with an RP is "It can have romance but don't shoehorn it in just cause 'Liek omg true wuv'". Will I do romance? Yes. Will I write Mature Themes/18+? Yes but in PM only and most smut will go to tasteful fade to black.

EDIT: I also failed to mention the point that I do think the guild needs updates, what with all the white screens, the guild going down at times and upgrades to the coding but I can work with what we have right now which is a fairly functional system. the IC/OOC for threads is a great idea, and in the future I'd love to see that sort of feature implemented for those who RP in Private Messages like myself. As an idea, I'd like to see a delete button for posts, as well as a better notification system for Subscribed RPs (I hardly notice). If IC/OOC for PMs isn't going to be a thing at some point, perhaps giving us an option to sort our "messages" into different sections, like how Subs divides the "Roleplay" and "Non Roleplay" boards that you've subscribed to, but instead, for PM it can be divided into "IC" PMs and "OOC" PMs, but of course we'd have to just judge it and add it to these sections ourselves.

Also, I understand Mahz is busy. This ain't me pressuring, just me saying that even though I am a relatively new member, I see the flaws and will hope for fixes, but for now, the site works for me, and many others as well, so it isn't dying or dead.