Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by VATROU
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VATROU The Barron

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I remember a Dwarf my Friend's Father once rolled. His constitution was so high he couldn't get drunk. I can't remember the entire story it might've had items or something to buff his constitution. But his entire goal in life was to get wasted drunk. I don't think he ever achieved that goal. Or at least I don't remember hearing that he did.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by vancexentan
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vancexentan Hawk of Endymion

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Dwarves without getting drunk sounds like a very pitiful dwarf.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Drakel
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The answer to the OP is quite simple, The majority can't see themselves as a dwarf as easily as they can with a human or elf or orcs. Here is why; Humans = You're basically playing yourself, you know your limitations and abilities easily so it's nearly impossible to fail at that. Not only that but as stated before a human can be turned into a 'Perfect human' (something I'll delve into later in this post). Elves represent purity, nature and magic and thus have more fans than dwarves because they hold more powers overall. Dwaves hardly EVER use magic and when they do it'll never be deemed as powerful as an elf's magic. Elves are also perfect with the bow and act like ninjas. People also see tall and slim as perfect sex wise as well so that helps. Orcs are rough, tough, mean and angry blood thirsty monsters of rage and hate, thus making them played more because they're 'perfect' in a different way, they are a outage of inner anger that people can release in the RP easily. They don't need to solve their problems by thinking or talking their way out, they just walk up and bash everyone's skulls in. They are also (while ugly in the face) strong and tall as humans, making them playable too and semi-'sexy' (when you put a bag over their face) in a sense as well. Dwarves hold none of those traits, they're shorter and their muscles give them a more 'fat' like appearance than anything. They're played rather dully due to the fact that they are usually deemed as Drunk smiths and fighters, yet all races you could play the same thing AND be more. A Dwarf can never be more human than a human, A Dwarf usually isn't as pure, magical or stealthy than the elves, A Dwarf is hardly ever as angry of bloodthirsty than the orcs. This makes the Dwarves bet the bottom of the barrel and nothing but comic relief.

So to answer your question, they're not played as often because 1) all important roles are already filled by the other races, 2) they aren't sexy, hot or good looking AT ALL (by majority vote) and 3) They're dull to play and were made to be comic relief, not a serious threat to anyone.

Now, how can this issue be fixed? Customize your Dwarves more, give them something that none of the other races will ever be able to compete with. Technology can do this. Make the Dwarves more than drunks, make them able to be technical engineers that can create things better than the other races EVEN WHEN DRUNK! (See the players swarm for the dwarves when they realize Dwarves can make grenades, guns and mini-mechs). Make the Dwarves more bloodthirsty than the Orcs, maybe unlike the Orcs the Dwarves are cannibal warriors that eat what they kill in honorable combat. Make the Dwarves able to be slim instead of fat muscle beasts? After all, Who says the short can't look hot and sexy as well? Make the Dwarves economic trading KINGS able to get gold faster and easier than elves or humans with only 1/1000th of the effort? Give the Dwarves their own form of powerful magic that only they can use?

Another problem with most RPs is that they are usually combat based. If you take off a bit more of the combat part and focused on other areas that require more skill than combat (per say Democratic, Trading, Creating, Surviving, ect..) It'd be easier to make the dwarves wanted to be played.

Overall Dwarves are just undeveloped and all you have to do is add more too them to make players see that they ARE a worthy to play race after all and hold much more advantages than one person might thing. Possibilities are endless and it's only up to both the Players and the GMs on how limited those possibilities are.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Tick
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Halvtand said
I’ve been roleplaying for quite some time and in that time I’ve noticed a trend.
Elves are among the most popular races to play, with the familiar human running for second place. Dwarves are among the most unpopular, and I’ve seen people asking to play as an orc or other “minority”-race rather than playing as a dwarf.


Short, stocky, pig-headed, irrational people don't like to be reminded of themselves.

In seriousness, dwarves are the more flawed, more human but inhuman, less fantastical option. They don't have the easy familiarity of "me" to players (humans), but have the extreme virtues and flaws associated with people (greed and jealousy, blind loyalty, distrust of outsiders, stubbornness). Nor do they have the escapist power appeal of elves, who are more magically inclined, attractive, and overall better, often with the biggest flaw being they're too thin and apathetic to the inferior people.

One has to offer something of value to the average player. An advantage, or a novelty. If you made the dwarves cool, or necessary and important, or the cryptic last of their kind, players will eat that shit up. Dwarves have the appeal of being more grounded, less alienated, but they have to be given some credit or attention in the lore. If it's negative stereotypes with nothing to fill and compensate the paper-thin culture and characterization, only atypical players(or players wanting bad characters) will go for them.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Darcs
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Halvtand said Why are dwarves so unpopular among fantasy-players? What is the major problem/s?

Because Dwarves are just manlets who mine, drink, generally have Napoleon complexes when it comes other races, and can't do magic for shit.

Why would you? It's not a fun challenge like with Halflings or Gnomes, it's just unpleasant.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Cadvin
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Hmm, good question. Mostly I think it's very easy for dwarves to be boring. The basic dwarven "template" is very generic: short, bearded, gruff, alcoholic. Not a lot of character development past a few posts. As with any other race it's easy the break the mold (I could easily make a nervous young dwarven sorceress that's self-conscious because women of other races don't have beards) but mostly that requires a preexisting interest in playing a dwarf. I love the little mountain men, but let's face it, when people read about elves everyone has a different character concept in mind. When people read about dwarves the first thing that pops into everyone's head is functionally identical to Gimli.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by ASTA
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Cadvin said
When people read about dwarves the first thing that pops into everyone's head is functionally identical to Gimli.


That's because people are unwilling to step outside of their comfort zones.

Seriously people, break some tropes. Shatter some stereotypes. Not everything has to adhere to the 'Tolkien Model' or the various mythologies that he based his series off of. Want to have a master dwarf mage that can disrupt molecular bonds through touch or thought? Do it. Want to have a dwarf arbalist that can put Legolas to shame? Do it.

This isn't rocket science.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Hexaflexagon
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I'm just saying dwarves are pretty awesome. One of my fondest moments in Dungeons and Dragons was finally making it through the Tomb of Horrors; the infamous meat grinder that it is. How do you ask? Well simply put it requires one team of dwarves and a lot of patience. You dig under the tomb and tunnel your way all the way to Acererak and it was amazing. Making checks to see if our tunnel supports held it was oddly one of the most riveting experiences I've had in a game of Dungeons and Dragons. XD

Oh and Dwarven Defenders because they are awesome and much better then some frilly elves. Sure you move about as slow as a crippled snail, but you are also a nigh immortal god of dwarven destruction that can take hits from dragons without even flinching.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Cadvin
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ASTA said
That's because people are unwilling to step outside of their comfort zones. Seriously people, break some tropes. Shatter some stereotypes. Not everything has to adhere to the 'Tolkien Model' or the various mythologies that he based his series off of. Want to have a master dwarf mage that can disrupt molecular bonds through touch or thought? Do it. Want to have a dwarf arbalist that can put Legolas to shame? Do it. This isn't rocket science.


The problem is that breaking dwarf tropes usually requires you to already want to play a dwarf. Everyone can make a unique dwarf if they say "Okay, I want to play one of these but make it interesting." But usually people will glace at the race list and an idea for a unique human or elf (Whose instinctual roles are much more flexible) will pop into their heads without having to think "Okay, so right now I have a template for a character that I don't want to play. How do I turn it into a character I do want to play?"

Basically: Most people that play a trope-defying dwarf will be doing so because they were already interested in the idea of dwarves, but didn't want to play a beer quaffing miner. But most people aren't going to say "Man, that race looks boring, and that one looks fun to play. Instead of playing the one I'm interested in, I'm going to try and think of a way to make the boring race as interesting as the other race."
Hidden 10 yrs ago 10 yrs ago Post by Jester Acharis
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You can come up with any amount of theories or excuses, but at the end of the day I'd say it's simply because dwarves aren't conventionally attractive and people tend to be shallow in their pretendy funtimes - it's fantasy and wish-fullfillment, after all. It's not just dwarves that get this treatment, either; if there's a bunch of races offered and one of them is decidedly "uglier" than the others without something really awesome to make up for it (ugly, demonic characters seem to get a pass more often than not, for example) they're most often the least picked. One example off the top of my head would be the Goron race in LoZ. People opt to go for Hylians, Twili, Zora and Sheikahs far more often than the Gorons. You can also see this when it comes to people picking pictures for their characters. Really, how often can you claim to have seen an "ugly" PB? I also agree with the point above; if you're playing a trope-defying dwarf (which is fun) it's because you already wanted to play a dwarf to some extent. You wouldn't even bother otherwise.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by sarinstrdr
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I have had a a few dwarf characters but I don't use them much much. I enjoy the beards but mine generally fall into the crazy ax wielding manic catercategory
Hidden 10 yrs ago 10 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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Because dwarves are pretty common fair among the Tolkenist fantasy and we all pretty much understand the tropes and concept of "The Dwarf". For the large part when it comes to "dwarf" what's often conjured - thanks in part to Tolkein and Disney's "Sleeping Beauty" - are men who live under the mountain or mine. They may also be independent, but who knows. People understand this and the entire concept as been carried over so repeatedly through the fantasy genre it's pretty much cross-universe canon that the dwarven race are stout people of the underground who are made strong from a life of working metal, stone, and being rugged. And because it's familiar: we're comfortable. Same goes for elves, most often we keep recycling the same basic concept between stories we pretty much dug elves into being a single sort of arch-type; the only exception being Santa's midget helpers (like wise Dwarves have their different physical appearance as in the case of the Elder Scrolls with the dwarves - or Dunmer (SP?) - being the same physically as their above ground elven cousins). And for people writing casually, and for people to write alongside them, and for the sake of the GM; it's comforting and easy to be and work a race that's familiar and with no real tricks up their sleeves. I've been in a few RPs where people have tried to make their own races, but they just often come off awkward and ill-crafted. Elves and Dwarves come readily pre-built and already understood, so the only changes needed are purely aesthetic choice. EDIT - I'll also have to agree with Jester's point. As well as being familiar as I put, it may often be wish fulfillment. And I also often find people don't want to fill the role of a genocidal or homicidal maniac so may not touch things like Orcs so often, who are portrayed as less refined brutish, and violent people. I see a lot of moral one-upping a lot. And then when people don't do it it's all in edgier than bismuth and honestly really goofy. And in these cases it seems most often to be often something like self-cynical with someone trying to prove how humans are evil by having a meniacal human. Which is certainly not unheard of for us, or any choice of fantasy race. But maybe I'm just rambling here so whatever. Fuck it. EDIT EDIT - Actually I think I basically missed the point of this thread and I would like to condemn writing well past midnight as a thing that can be done. But just replace the things before the previous edit or what not with "humen" and the point still stands: people like familiarity.
Hidden 10 yrs ago 10 yrs ago Post by VATROU
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VATROU The Barron

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Elder Scrolls with the dwarves - or Dunmer (SP?) - being the same physically as their above ground elven cousins). Dwemer or Dwarves in the Elder Scrolls Universe, are Physically different from Tolken Dwarves. They one of the Tallest, if not the tallest if I remember correctly. Other than that. They share various similarities, in terms of architecture and engineering. Both being quite advanced in those matters. Also on the topic of Dwarves. The Fallout Series has had it's share of them as well. In Fallout 1 and 2. There have been several Dwarves. Mutated Humans due to radiation. Sadly they have not appeared in any of the newer games. Edit. It seems messing with the quote too much removed the quote bracket entirely. If it is not clear, I am responding to Dinh AaronMk.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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Dinh AaronMk my beloved (french coded)

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> Dwemer or Dwarves in the Elder Scrolls Universe, are Physically different from Tolken Dwarves. They one of the Tallest, if not the tallest if I remember correctly. Other than that. They share various similarities, in terms of architecture and engineering. Both being quite advanced in those matters. Also on the topic of Dwarves. The Fallout Series has had it's share of them as well. In Fallout 1 and 2. There have been several Dwarves. Mutated Humans due to radiation. Sadly they have not appeared in any of the newer games. > > Edit. It seems messing with the quote too much removed the quote bracket entirely. If it is not clear, I am responding to Dinh AaronMk. I know they're physically different from their Tolkein cousins, hence why I said they're similar in physique to their elven cousins. I didn't say they're similar in physique to Gimli.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Freeshooter92
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Freeshooter92 Wasteland Scourge

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> Dwarves are awesome. > > [quote=vancexentan] Orcs...well they're freaking orcs you don't fuck with a orc holding a massive sword. > [/quote] > > Same thing goes for a Dwarf holding a warhammer! XD High-five, dwarf-bro.
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