<Snipped quote by Zoldyck> I have no problems with it whatsoever. I'm a 40k fan as well, though my knowledge past the Horus Heresy is somewhat limited. I'm not sure about the rule, but in my opinion, the gore is fine.

You a Warhammer 40k fan? I would have never guessed with that profile picture... *cough*

<Snipped quote by Zadubadabu> You a Warhammer 40k fan? I would have never guessed with that profile picture... *cough*

Oh yea, forgot about that.

<Snipped quote by Zoldyck> Oh yea, forgot about that.

So... Chaos or Loyalist? :P

Disadvantages of Everyone -Not enough shooty or choppy -Never 'enuff dakka -Not enuff fings painted red -Not enuff Orks -Not enough WAAAAGH!. -Not Orky enough -Not C'ran. Wait how did this get here? I sure didn't place it there...

<Snipped quote by Zadubadabu> So... Chaos or Loyalist? :P

Loyalist

Here's some disadvantages of yours, Zoldyck [+]

-You're fighting Draconians fighting for their land and for their bloodlust, and for the fear of getting their head chopped off by Draconia, who are better trained and are better warriors than you- the NATION specializes in ground warfare, next to warfare itself -Satellite defenses will shoot your droppods, resulting in losses because you're clumping and they have missiles, lasers, and railguns -anti-air defenses will shoot your droppods, resulting in losses because you're following straight, predictable trajectories and are rather easy to detect, being all super-heated from atmo and all -Armored units, heavy infantry units, mechanized infantry units, infantry units, helicopters, Rebel fighters, and Shrike strike fighters will all be targeting your soldiers, while your soldiers are essentially on great open fields -You are landing on primarily open fields -You are fighting entrenched soldiers -You are fighting in your own virus, which will eat any exposed piece -Ten million troops is a shitton of people, and getting them all down will take weeks -Ten million troops is a shitton of people, and getting them all vaccinated (which would be unnecessary and expensive before) will take weeks -Ten million troops is a shitton of people, and getting them all organized quickly will take hours -Ten million troops won't be ten million by the time they hit the ground- very heavy losses will likely ensue -Your troops are attacking a random people who look very ready for them. They will look at a display and see half of their friends gone before they touch the ground, they'll get out and see half of the rest get killed, and then they'll look up and start fighting to meet even more soldiers. There's getting angry because you're losing people, then there's realizing that nothing you're doing is doing anything worthwhile, and surrendering may save your life and the lives of thousands of others. Morale is important- and getting slaughtered is very bad for it.

I have nothing to say for most of that, i'll leave it to Zoldyck, but the virus has already consumed itself and at this point the fire storm would have surely occurred.

Here's some disadvantages of yours, Zoldyck [+]

-You're fighting Draconians fighting for their land and for their bloodlust, and for the fear of getting their head chopped off by Draconia, who are better trained and are better warriors than you- the NATION specializes in ground warfare, next to warfare itself -Satellite defenses will shoot your droppods, resulting in losses because you're clumping and they have missiles, lasers, and railguns -anti-air defenses will shoot your droppods, resulting in losses because you're following straight, predictable trajectories and are rather easy to detect, being all super-heated from atmo and all -Armored units, heavy infantry units, mechanized infantry units, infantry units, helicopters, Rebel fighters, and Shrike strike fighters will all be targeting your soldiers, while your soldiers are essentially on great open fields -You are landing on primarily open fields -You are fighting entrenched soldiers -You are fighting in your own virus, which will eat any exposed piece -Ten million troops is a shitton of people, and getting them all down will take weeks -Ten million troops is a shitton of people, and getting them all vaccinated (which would be unnecessary and expensive before) will take weeks -Ten million troops is a shitton of people, and getting them all organized quickly will take hours -Ten million troops won't be ten million by the time they hit the ground- very heavy losses will likely ensue -Your troops are attacking a random people who look very ready for them. They will look at a display and see half of their friends gone before they touch the ground, they'll get out and see half of the rest get killed, and then they'll look up and start fighting to meet even more soldiers. There's getting angry because you're losing people, then there's realizing that nothing you're doing is doing anything worthwhile, and surrendering may save your life and the lives of thousands of others. Morale is important- and getting slaughtered is very bad for it.

Yup... Pretty much sums it all up. Though the virus is not covering the entire planet and by this point already devoured itself, so that is a couple of your points removed. About the close combat, this is basically the best soldier I have. I already described that the basic infantry were getting slaugthered by your troops in close combat. Thirdly, the gathering of this invasion force already took months of prepping before but that seemed logical to me so I didnt write it down. These troops have been indoctrinated from birth to give their life for the Confederacy and are reminded by very friendly commissars that thinking about surrendering is not really appreciated. Your defence satalites are kinda occupied with the massive fleet which just jumped in, plus I already said that my fleet had engaged them in my previous post. Half of the ships which just jumped in are dropships themselves, although I admit I should have clarified on that. These ships carry entire regiments of troops, complete with armoured support and everything. Some carry 10.000 soldiers while others carry 100 tanks or mechs. The Confederacy is about quantity, having a few heroes who are excelling but most of whom are just cannonfodder. So yes, I can deploy my troops enmasse like this. I dont want to sound like a dick or anything but come on! Give some leniancy. I could have told you that the moment your ships came into visual range they would have been ripped to pieces by heavy torpedoes. I could have nuked the entire planet to oblivon because there was litterally nothing stopping me from doing that. Remember you basically insta-killing my two cruisers with barely any casualties and being able to disrupt my systems already before we even made contact? (me not being able to spot your defencestations) I even ruined my own invasion to make it more fair by jumping straight in your combat fleet, losing a high amount of my forces in the proces. Heck, I have planet cracking capabilities (in my background I destroyed one of my own planets to destroy an invading alien species.) but I dont use that because it wouldnt be fair. I have one very strong main character, but as I showed in my post, the basic infantry are getting torn to shreds. Come on, atleast give me some advantages... EDIT: Also, it's 50 million, not 10 :P EDIT EDIT: Also about the surface anti-air, so you pretty much cover the entire planet with troops who are capable of knocking down my droppods? And how can you be sure that your troops are better? Having a warrior culture doesnt mean your troops are better and I have a militaristic culture aswell, basically space nazis. Drill and dicipline are the things my nation excels at, they are average in closecombat but they lack physical strenght and agility to make them be really good at it.

@Zadubadabu Loyalists FTW :D I'm more of an Imperial Guard lover, as you might have noticed by my disregard of cost in terms of lives :P Although the Imperial Fists, and by extention the Black Templars, are awesome :D

@Zoldyck *Blams Zoldyck* None escape the Inquisition, not even the Imperial Guard. Also, what Zab says below. The purpose of RP is to interact with others. This means allowing them time to react in some way to the actions you have taken and end with a logical yet happy conclusion.

I pretty much agree with Zoldyck, this is about writing a story, not trying to see who has the biggest gun. The RP isn't as fun if one person is constantly one-upping those he's fighting against. This is why it's an RP and not just someone writing a book. The back and forth posts allow people to come up with responses and not just say they flat out slaughtered an enemy without a fight.

You're attacking an enemy planet with troops! Against entrenched troops! And my people have antimatter warheads, which you don't. I mean, you don't need to go into atmo to fire orbital ordnance. You can sit as far away as Mars from Earth, and still hit something. Probably won't be accurate, but you could still hit. You came in [relative] very close range of antimatter missiles. The Abh move with antimatter missiles were outdated and simple ICBMs. These are big weapons specifically meant to kill enemy ships in orbit. That is what Draconians do- they kill soldiers, they kill more soldiers, and then they entrench themselves and kill anything in range- on the ground, in the air, or in the orbit above. And there would be something stopping you from nuking the planet, though if you were determined enough, you could do it. The radiation might be so high that even environmental shields might not be able to take it out, but I suppose you could go with the idea of if-I-can't-have-it-you-can't-have-it. But then, if you nuke my planet, then my people will do the exact same right back. If you want advantages, try, I don't know, sending down some specifically-stealthy scouts to mark targets, use orbital bombardment to clear out entrenched spots, and then drop. But you didn't. You just... rushed everything. You have an advantage in numbers, but how good are numbers when you're sitting in an open field, coming down bit by bit, and getting shot at all the while? What comes around goes around. Invading my planet will probably get me invading yours. Trying to use chemwar on my planet will probably get me using chemwar on yours. Trying to nuke the entire planet into submission will probably get me using nukes on yours. You have the advantages of numbers and orbital superiority. The problem is that on the ground, your steady stream of numbers probably won't be enough to win. And in orbit, you'll be pummeled by ground defenses the entire time. Including antimatter missiles. If you have powerful shields, you probably won't die so easily, but armor is material, and antimatter is pretty much antimaterial. It is THE antimaterial. That's why it's antimatter. The only thing is that you're invading Draconians. The Race who Conquers doesn't take kindly to attempts at conquering. If someone has the gall to invade, the Draconians are both going to think, "WORTHY FOE OF MY BLADE" and "HOW DARE THEY EVEN THINK ABOUT INVADING US!" You're invading the warriors. The WARRIORs. Now, I may or may not have fired first shot, but Draconians have little interest being trade partners, and they have little interest in threats of annexation, so it's pretty much a pre-destined thing. Note that I'm not raging. I'm actually pretty amused.

You're attacking an enemy planet with troops! Against entrenched troops! And my people have antimatter warheads, which you don't. I mean, you don't need to go into atmo to fire orbital ordnance. You can sit as far away as Mars from Earth, and still hit something. Probably won't be accurate, but you could still hit. You came in [relative] very close range of antimatter missiles. The Abh move with antimatter missiles were outdated and simple ICBMs. These are big weapons specifically meant to kill enemy ships in orbit. That is what Draconians do- they kill soldiers, they kill more soldiers, and then they entrench themselves and kill anything in range- on the ground, in the air, or in the orbit above. And there would be something stopping you from nuking the planet, though if you were determined enough, you could do it. The radiation might be so high that even environmental shields might not be able to take it out, but I suppose you could go with the idea of if-I-can't-have-it-you-can't-have-it. But then, if you nuke my planet, then my people will do the exact same right back. If you want advantages, try, I don't know, sending down some specifically-stealthy scouts to mark targets, use orbital bombardment to clear out entrenched spots, and then drop. But you didn't. You just... rushed everything. You have an advantage in numbers, but how good are numbers when you're sitting in an open field, coming down bit by bit, and getting shot at all the while? What comes around goes around. Invading my planet will probably get me invading yours. Trying to use chemwar on my planet will probably get me using chemwar on yours. Trying to nuke the entire planet into submission will probably get me using nukes on yours. You have the advantages of numbers and orbital superiority. The problem is that on the ground, your steady stream of numbers probably won't be enough to win. And in orbit, you'll be pummeled by ground defenses the entire time. Including antimatter missiles. If you have powerful shields, you probably won't die so easily, but armor is material, and antimatter is pretty much antimaterial. It is THE antimaterial. That's why it's antimatter. The only thing is that you're invading Draconians. The Race who Conquers doesn't take kindly to attempts at conquering. If someone has the gall to invade, the Draconians are both going to think, "WORTHY FOE OF MY BLADE" and "HOW DARE THEY EVEN THINK ABOUT INVADING US!" You're invading the warriors. The WARRIORs. Now, I may or may not have fired first shot, but Draconians have little interest being trade partners, and they have little interest in threats of annexation, so it's pretty much a pre-destined thing. Note that I'm not raging. I'm actually pretty amused.

I had powerfull shields but they seemed to not do anything against your antimatter missiles. Now I dont mind losing ships instantly, but then I want to have the ability to have massive fleets. And those antimater missiles might be antimaterial but can they really destroy a 3km (1.5 mile) long ship? But that isnt really that important imo, the important thing is that my groundinvasion is seen as useless. I dont just drop in open territory with no support at all. My dropships are basically this: In other words, I deploy fortresses on your planet in seconds. Yes many will be blown to bits, as I said in the post, but many more will reach the surface. Other then that my infantry ofcourse has man-pads, portable AA, aswell as shouldermounted anti-tank weaponry. I would also like to point out this line from my post: "They are to move to the other side of the planet and start shelling the planet while the troops drop in." That means that yes, I am busy with securing the dropzone with an orbital bombardment. Although due to the position I've jumped into the firepower will be drastically reduced, giving you a fighting chance, it still is raining shells. Now your soldiers might be THE warriors, but mine are THE soldiers. They are drilled to perfection and dont care for individual glory. They are trained to obey orders no matter what. And although seeing a Draconian might be intimidating, especially once one cuts down the guy next to you, the fear of the commissars behind is far more threatening. If we are going to be nitpicky about me not bombing your ground troops in great detail then I could do the same for saying you didnt discribe what your entrenchments were in great detail. Is it a trenchsystem? Are it large errected walls and autoturrets? Do you have massive minefields? Do you have special killzones and bottlenecks? You already saw how large my post was without me going into detail about the troop deployment. If I would have done so then the post would have been twice as long and it would have left far less room for you to react. Would you rather have me use a flawless attack strategy? That wouldnt be fun for either of us would it? :)

In respose to more recent: Fifty million is a great deal, which is why I'm going to call in reinforcements. It was also pretty much said that I had troops all over, plus Forerunner troops. I left it unspecified for a reason. Putting numbers on things never worked out well for me. I tried to be fair and had a fleet of say 50 ships, and suddenly everyone had 400, and it's just... yeah. You have few advantages besides numbers. You currently have orbital superiority, but I have total air superiority, and started with entrenched, fresh, bloodthirsty troops armed with a variety of weapons, with planty of ammunition and supplies, and also energy swords. A dropship is great and all, but you've given next to no information about them. Actually, you didn't even mention them until now, in the OOC. The ride from high orbit to the surface is... several minutes long, even in a droppods, and longer in a dropship. You have specified nothing of what you're bringing down. NOTHING. So I'm assuming it's just a Zerg Rush and mowing you down as you come out. I'm set and ready man. You're space Nazis- I'm like a horde of smart entrenched beserkers. They won't run out and meet you in an open field- my soldiers do have discipline- but that doesn't mean you would necessarily have discipline either. You're coming down randomly, officers dying just as much as soldiers, in a great freefall to the surface. Formations will get torn apart in the open, you've got artillery coming down on you, air support You're just... not in a good position. If you had half the continent and I had half the continent and then we clashed, then yeah, it would probably be much more in your favor than it is now, if for the simple fact that your discipline matters. But... discipline works to get organized and everything. When popping up gets a buncha bullets spray at you, popping up will not be recommended. Running will get you cut down, and the fields will be filled with blood- slipping is a possibility. You're at a disadvantage either way. You can call in orbital support, but I can still shred apart all these troops you're sending at me. Take a pillbox and clear out its resident platoon; get a Shrike bomber strike when the soldiers inside go offline. Every advance you make will be pummeled as much as possible. The Draconians will not give you any leeway to get organized and counterattack. Okay, your main character will be able to clear out a platoon, but now they know about your supergirl, and now they'll be aware. The next post is Draconia hearing your supergirl, and getting superpissed. Better have her run as fast as you can, cause a Shrike bomb strike will come right down on her head as a result. I am writing. I am writing a battle where the defenders hold all the cards on the ground. Draconia still is losing ground; so she bombs it to keep technology and strategic position out of their hands. You have said nothing about anti air, tanks, nothing. Just... coming in and shooting and dying. I see no vehicles mentioned, so I'm assuming there aren't any on the ground. Maybe these are the droppods, and your dropships are about to land and support. Either way, specify. You send escorts to intercept my aircraft, I'll know when you break atmo. I have the sensors, yes. It's like... attacking a castle. The residents are full of great big beserkers who can hold a line, and have some catapults and stuff to take out your own. While you rush up to the gates and walls and try to break in, you'll fall pretty quickly. Every time you take a section of the wall, they throw some dynamite at it and let it explode and turn the upper half of the wall to rubble. You can only attack so much at one time, and they're going to blow up all the advantages you gain. Courtyard? throw some boom-booms and then maybe try to move back into it. Do you see? I am being realistic- maybe a bit over the top, but you're bringing in fifty million troops. You can't exactly blame me when you can keep sending soldiers down for days and still have a few thousand. Look at the Abh- they held back Duck's troops for an insane amount of time, killing an insane amount of troops. Except, this is less a few people shooting at a bottleneck, but a well-organized, strategic and tactically superior enemy sitting behind cover and armed with big guns. You're coming down as fast as possible in a general area so you won't get shot out of the sky. This is a war already- the warriors won't give you five minutes, much less an advantage. Wars are pressing every advantage you have and trying to eliminate or discourage the enemy from attacking. Alternatively, instead of attacking a planet that is clearly fortified and filled with troops- that was obvious from the very beginning- you could've called a truce and asked for peace. I'll even give you the chance, this next post- state that the planet is a colony, which means that if you have this much trouble taking the outskirts, you'll have a great deal on the inside, the core. Let me repeat this: You are at a disadvantage, running right into dozen of different guns' barrels with your eyes closed and opening just when you pull out your weapon. And the Draconians will not want to lose, so they will press everything they have. You already said that your character would "break through but probably lose 70%" at the beginning- what, did you mean KEEP 70%? I suck at summaries You're at a severe, severe, SEVERE disadvantage because you have said NOTHING about who is actually attacking- I am simply assuming that all you have are droppods and infantry. Now, if you specified that there were dropships coming in, loaded with tanks and the like, then you'll have more of an advantage. Shrikes, helicopters, all that can come by and tear you to shreds because you only have what infantry can use. Anti-air units will be targeted, obviously, and may take some time to set up, but it could start making landing zones safer. Armor units can support infantry and help you push through defenses (though they'd still die quite a bit), and if you bring down a crapton of your fighters, you may be able to occupy both the Rebels and Shrikes away from shooting defenseless soldiers. This is a story. If it were a story in which the enemy magically throws up their arms and lets you start shooting them, I will let you know. At the time being, the Draconians will kill you with all the advantages they already have. They have weapons to shoot into orbit, they have anti air, they have aircraft, mechanized infantry, tanks of the bunker-buster kind, of the heavy-armor-kill-all kind, of the floaty kind, of the real fast and annoying kind, and more. They have armored suits, power suits, battle suits, and they are entrenched. I said earlier in my posts, before you attacked, where Draconia ordered soldiers to take up defensive positions under cover, in case of orbital barrage. They were already in entrenched positions, under cover. It had already been specified that I had anti-orbit weapons. It had also been shown that I have really powerful missiles that can vaporize shieldless ships that get too close. I also have artillery that can reach high-atmo. I have specified everything beforehand, and am not pulling giant flame-breathing superrabbits out of my ass. This isn't me one-upping you. This is me getting a bunch of people to shoot out like a shooting gallery. First, they are in the sky on predictable trajectories for droppods, maybe less so for dropships, though they are slower and there is more time to hit them. Then you are in the fields between clumps of trees, where soldiers and vehicles are entrenched, as stated before the battle hand begun. Now, four tanks and a regiment of troops is a powerful force, and approaching a small town, it would seem a no-brainer that they'll just sweep through. Then the defenders turn out to have anti-air, artillery, soldiers hiding in the houses, and tanks hiding behind houses, popping out and firing before going back under cover. This is fair. Well.. it's logical. I held the cards from the beginning, and you didn't bother trying to send down scouts and marking targets for orbital bombardment, and then bringing down everything at one time, organized like. I simply assumed you're just spamming infantry pods and then dropships. You land, you run out, you get shot because there's nothing to hide behind and you're getting shot from left, right, front, behind, and above. I haven't even brought in the genetically engineered creatures yet, or droppods from my troop transports in orbit. You just said you were on the ground and running at the enemy.

Zoldyck, Zab, and Wilson. That is all a warning for arguing in OOC, you know the rules. And since this is your third warning Wilson, unless you give me a damn good reason I shouldn't your banned.

Aye, I may not have specified my entrenchment, but YOU specified NOTHING about your invasion. NOTHING. Just that you came down and started attacking and were mostly dying. Don't give me that you had all this. You didn't say ANYTHING. And shelling the opposite side of the planet means running into more and more and more satellites, which will be very painful for your fleet, and will do little to help your initial invasion.

@WilsonTurnerJust quickly stating after reading your first couple of paragraphs (atm at the part where you talk about me not specifying) Yup, you're right about that thing and I appologise for not being clear on that... Gonna respond to the entire post in a minute.

Nevermind this post, was a test.

@duck55223No dont, it's my fault, I didnt know about that. Dont ban him. Give me two warnings, I dont want that to happen to him just because I fucked up.

Whatever Duck, I guess I'm done anyways. You don't like me, trust me, and people get mad at me for legitimately having the upper hand beforehand, and yet no one gives a shit that KeyGuy over there had a tiny amount of Abh hold off thousands of Romans singlehandedly. Whatever. It's all bullshit that I'd get banned for legitimately having the upperhand. There's story writing, yes, we're writing a story, but I specified that I had tons of ground units, that I had the satellites, that I had defenses. I was entrenched, I had lots of ships already landed, and each ship holds a great deal of people, especially when they're packed in tight, and they're all in cryostasis so that you can cut supplies for interplanetary travel in half or less. I was being LEGITIMATE. I had EVERYTHING planned BEFOREHAND, and am not pulling anything out of my ass for once! Really, get mad at me if I do, get mad at me if I don't. If I'm winning, it's bad. Thanks alot. Cya later. Bullshit that I'm getting flak for being specific, or at least mostly specific, about having the upperhand, and describing both my advantages against his disadvantages, and even giving ways it would've been better to invade. EDIT: Also something about your shields: you said they were good against energy weapons, with kinetics going mostly through it, to strike thick armor. Antimatter missiles are just big lumps of kinetic weaponry with a booster at one end, and a really big HE/AP explosive at the other.

@duck55223No dont, it's my fault, I didnt know about that. Dont ban him. Give me two warnings, I dont want that to happen to him just because I fucked up.

Well this present's two problems. First he was warned once before because he broke the no arguments in OOC rule, he is fully aware and should have proceeded with the standard procedure of starting a PM with associated parties and adding me sO I could monitor it. Second reading the rules is necessary, I follow them pretty strictly and stick to them with very few exceptions. @WilsonTurner This is not about you having the upperhand. This is not about your planning, or the legitmacy of your arguments. I did not even ready any of the arguing, the simple fact is that you broke the no arguing in OOC rule. If what your saying is true you probably would have won the argument, its just that I am getting fucking tired of arguing being dragged out in the OOC.