Wow - thanks for that info, always very interesting. Id guess it's also one of those things, since everyone practically has guns, you want a gun in case right? (Like the story's about having to do a sweep of your house with a shotgun is just crazy for me!) Ah I didn't consider the second amendment - the right to bear arms. See I think I'm quite fortunate to not have the availability of those kind of things - I was a very unstable child and it might not have gone so well one way or another, at least I don't think i'd still be around. I guess on one side it shows a huge amount of 'national maturity' in a way. I think if the UK had that kind of access it wouldn't go well at all - but I suppose that'd lead on to the kind of debates we are avoiding.

Also, Obama recently issued an executive order banning Kalashnikovs manufactured at Izhmash from importation into the US.

Well, a year ago he also banned re-importation of ex-US service rifles such as the M1 carbine, and M1 Garand. Also, due to a merger between Izmash and Izmech, it is now the Kalashnikov Concern. -So in short, he also banned most Mosin rifles not made in Tula or China*. And all Saiga firearms. Incidentally, there are fiscal-laws preventing the president from actually enforcing this order due to funds being expressly forbidden. Izmash also makes some pretty sweet Ural offroad motorcycles. **This in turn is driving the price of said rifles and ammunition up. BTW: own one of those rifles, BTW; '42, early Round-wall, seems to have lost its original bayonet inside a german, was re-stocked after an arty-strike in summer of '43, and had parts of its bolt replaced with parts salvaged from a wrecked Tula hex-reciever'd Mosin sometime around '44 in the Ukraine. At some point I tried slapping a weaver-rail on the side without turning down the bolt. Works great in theory but the cheap aluminum rail (intended for Rem 597, .22 cal) tends to swell and strip the bolts (cut-down electrical-box screws). Oh, and my Mosin also caught fire from shooting it a bit too fast. Clearly superior firearm. And Obama somehow banned it.

I hate to say it but Obama is a right idiot when it comes to guns. My fiancé spent thirty years in the Marines and his rifle of choice was the M1 Garand. To hear him talk about it was beyond insane lol.

Somebody had to vote for these people, right?

Somebody had to vote for these people, right?

I think the problem is that nowadays if you're voting for a president who supports guns, you're also probably voting for a homophobic, racist asshole.

Somebody had to vote for these people, right?

I think the problem is that nowadays if you're voting for a president who supports guns, you're also probably voting for a homophobic, racist asshole.

Wouldn't it be great to vote for someone who is neither an asshole nor an idiot? Problem is when a conduit for the people's will starts to think their own will is the will of the people, and decides to impose it against obvious opposition, they tend to become known as both.

Somebody had to vote for these people, right?

I think the problem is that nowadays if you're voting for a president who supports guns, you're also probably voting for a homophobic, racist asshole.

Wouldn't it be great to vote for someone who is neither an asshole nor an idiot? Problem is when a conduit for the people's will starts to think their own will is the will of the people, and decides to impose it against obvious opposition, they tend to become known as both.

See I think I'm quite fortunate to not have the availability of those kind of things - I was a very unstable child and it might not have gone so well one way or another, at least I don't think i'd still be around. I guess on one side it shows a huge amount of 'national maturity' in a way. I think if the UK had that kind of access it wouldn't go well at all - but I suppose that'd lead on to the kind of debates we are avoiding.

You seem pretty afraid of yourself, Consider safe gun-handling like safe car ownership. It takes literally like... 6 months to get over guns. You fasten your seatbelt. You check your blindspot and try your damndest to keep yourself aware of any vehicles riding up alongside and about a sneeze away from trading its paint-job for yours. You don't drive your car on the sidewalk to get around slow people. Nor do you run people over -repeatedly- just because they flip you the bird while standing on the crosswalk. You don't lock yourself in your car, in the garage, start the engine, and fall asleep while listening to your favorite music one last time. In America, the idea of needing a 'legitimate need' as defined by someone else with a gun seems kinda communist as needing the mayor's consent to own and then a separate consent to actually drive a car out of your own town (that need as defined by someone who more than likely does not have that limit imposed upon themselves). You want a GTO Firebird and move to a different state? Go buy one and drive. -Do you *NEED* a GTO to do that? No, but you want one and it'll work fine without spontaneously exploding on the highway. What is the problem? When government says you can't have something you want because they don't see you "needing" it badly enough to let you have it, what's to stop them from saying you don't "Need" other things you want? Like a new place to live? Or a new president? -America's answer: Guns, a lot of them. And not a single one in the hands of the Army. The concept touted on why gun control fails is the same reason why encountering a deserter from the military is an omen for a very terribad day. Granted, when kids are young and immature, they get behind the wheel and make "Vroom-vroom" noises, but that's just them pretending an action without a destination.

How many people believe in the concept of a gun in every room of your residence?

My favorite gun was stolen just before I moved. =( All I have left is the little bolt action .22 I've had since I was a wee lil' latina, and my SIG Sauer P250 that's always kept in my car.

<Snipped quote by Foster> I think the problem is that nowadays if you're voting for a president who supports guns, you're also probably voting for a homophobic, racist asshole.

Word. It kinda sucks.

My favorite gun was stolen just before I moved. =( All I have left is the little bolt action .22 I've had since I was a wee lil' latina, and my SIG Sauer P250 that's always kept in my car.

In compact form, the 250 is probably similar in size to the P239. And if you're gonna buy a piece for carry, it's hard to do better than a Sig Sauer. They're more expensive than a lot of other options, but I want to be confident in something I intend to rely upon with my life. There's few makes I'd rely on like that besides Sig, such as Kimber.

My goal is to make all my guns pink, like I have them in GTA. ^_^

Not sure how much I can add to the discussion, but I guess I can briefly share my experience with firearms. Living within the Great White North I guess I have been accustomed to firearms in the terms of rifles and shotguns, and the like. I'm a young 'hunter' and try to go out at least once a year to some great spots up here in northern Ontario. So, I kind of already implied that for hunting purposes I feel firearms are perfectly fine. Although I'm not a fan of trophy hunting unless its for population control and only if the entire animal is used in some form or fashion. Licenses/permits here for Ontario for both rifles and shotguns are also aren't too bad as well, so its not something that is forbidden or frowned upon, which a bonus I say in terms for the public's eye. Although some of the laws of how a firearm should be stored, etc. is quite problematic in the way of self-defense is considered. Handguns for the most part are hell to get from I understand and they still for the most part share the same rules and regulations as the larger firearms. Honestly, its best to simply reach for a bat when your house has been broken into because the time it'll take to go into the basement (or a room that is out reach, away from view) and unlock the safe would be more troublesome than beneficial considering most doors and windows are not in the basement or said room to begin with...

@Ruby Pink hogue grips are doable. If you check back on this thread, I have a pic up of my P239 with black ones. @MafiaM16 US laws are very different, so we don't have to lock them up. I lock all of mine except my Sig Sauer, because that's a self defense piece. My state actually has fairly restrictive laws, but nothing like Canada's or the rest of the world (for the most part.) As I indicated before, our Second Amendment tends to enshrine firearms ownership as a right which changes the legal calculus quite a bit.

@HeySeuss I kind of wish that Canada had such flexible laws in terms of self-defense. Mind you, Canada is a rather peaceful place and violence is not something we are known for (media-wise speaking), but still. I think everyone worldwide has the right to protect themselves and to defend themselves and with firearms being common to purchase on the Black Market, I simply feel baseball bats and kitchen knives are simply not an option. Of course, this brings up entirely different can of worms with guns being less strict, but I don't wish to get into that. I just hope people have enough common sense...

How many people believe in the concept of a gun in every room of your residence?

Surprisingly close to supporting it. Never know when Putin will come a 'knockin. But no; not a gun in EVERY room. Some are designated dead-zones for reasons of not letting the person who just busted a $150 door get a hold of a $400 gun. Usually the idea is to somehow use that distance it'll take for them to get closer to load the gun. If you don't have the distance, you don't have the time. So... how fast can you run? Care to wager your life on whether or not I can load a rifle in the time it'll take to sprint up two flights of stairs? Even if you are "pretty sure" I was asleep and will bother to put on a fresh pair of trousers first? Another assumption is that I can probably run as fast as the fella chasing me. Problem is I get tired of running pretty quick when I realize they're just trying to scare me away from my property long enough to ransack it. Although this is ignoring the possibility that I could already be injured prior to fleeing.

I keep the guns loaded but hidden. I could find each and every single one in the dark without problem. Also I don't run from criminals, I confront them with gun in hand. I have only had one criminal in my house, the moron shit his pants when I put my gun in his face.

But no; not a gun in EVERY room. Some are designated dead-zones for reasons of not letting the person who just busted a $150 door get a hold of a $400 gun. Usually the idea is to somehow use that distance it'll take for them to get closer to load the gun. If you don't have the distance, you don't have the time.

If I were really worried about my home being busted into, such as when a fugitive is on the loose in this area (Baltimore) or we have a spate of home invasion robberies, the best place to have a gun is within reach. So put it in a holster and stick it on your belt. But leave them laying around? Fuck naw. In most jurisdictions, you can legally carry on your own property, that includes outdoors and indoors. If you're that worried about getting jumped that you're planting guns, I'm sorry, it's time to get realistic and safe about it and just holster one.

<Snipped quote by Foster> If I were really worried about my home being busted into, such as when a fugitive is on the loose in this area (Baltimore) or we have a spate of home invasion robberies, the best place to have a gun is within reach. So put it in a holster and stick it on your belt. But leave them laying around? Fuck naw. In most jurisdictions, you can legally carry on your own property, that includes outdoors and indoors. If you're that worried about getting jumped that you're planting guns, I'm sorry, it's time to get realistic and safe about it and just holster one.

Kinda hard to holster a shotgun or a Mosin-Nagant (and it being a 91/30, not very fun to carry it slung in the confines of a home; the bayonet on the other hand...). Not stored loaded because it isn't up to holy-shit levels of violence, plus I know quite well how fast I can load a gun. It's just stored nearby-ish enough so I don't have to leave the room I'm most likely sleeping in to get to it. Alternately, in a room were I can very reasonably flee to. Having a gun hanging on every wall of every room would be kinda silly and expensive, especially if they're all loaded. "Unconventional" would be pretty much Jackie-Chan levels of improv-fu in the lower-levels, in which case I'd already be rightly fucked; but at least I know where the sharp and heavy bits of my home are. You may also be forgetting I'm pretty deaf and blind on my left, so getting into a household firefight would be only delaying the inevitable. --- It also still takes about 20+ feet to draw a pistol from your belt and fire, assuming they aren't entering your home with guns drawn, that's the distance you'll need to go from sitting and watching a movie to gun-up. Where I am, the distance is about 150 feet they'll have to cover (just barely enough to grab some shells, get to the gun-vault, and ready a weapon), assuming they don't just pull-up and shoot through the exterior-walls. -In which case, loading a gun after a flashbang went off is probably going to be double-plus-un-fun prelude to getting shot at. --Although the use of a flashbang is a good indicator that going for a firearm would be a bad idea... maybe.

Well I only know marginally more than the average American about guns but I know that my uncle owns a wooden stock bolt-action .22 that I am in love with. Simplicity is just the way to go for me, there's something supremely satisfying about loading in shot after shot with a rifle that recoils like a paintball gun. (I also love clay shooting. Could never hunt, though, even if most of the forests where I live are infested with non-native boars who are real assholes.)

Well I only know marginally more than the average American about guns but I know that my uncle owns a wooden stock bolt-action .22 that I am in love with. Simplicity is just the way to go for me, there's something supremely satisfying about loading in shot after shot with a rifle that recoils like a paintball gun. (I also love clay shooting. Could never hunt, though, even if most of the forests where I live are infested with non-native boars who are real assholes.)

I know the feeling. I own a number of bolt actions and really enjoy them.

Particularly, as mentioned before, the SMLE.

When it comes to home protection, I always keep a fully loaded mag in my 74, but I wouldn't chamber it unless I felt it necessary.

Speaking of my 74, holy shit, I took it to the range yesterday and got a shittastic grouping with it, even with the most stable hold on the rifle I could accomplish. I'm starting to get the feeling the barrel is just bad. I hope not, and I'm hoping to get someone who is a far better shot than I to shoot it, but I'm pretty sure at this point I need a new barrel to get any better than 2 MOA.

Excuse me while I crawl into a corner and cry.

I'm pretty sure 2moa is all you can really expect out of a Saiga.

Edit: And I was thinking about going to the range today, so it snowed. So much for that plan.