Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Feed
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Greetings,

Hopefully by now, we have all been paying enough attention to take note of a new criminal defense that was allowed by one Judge Boyd down in Texas. Referred to as Affluenza it is a "condition" (a term I use loosely) that denotes, because a person is raised by parents who are extremely well-off financially that said person has not come to understand that their actions have consequences or essentially, wealth buys privilege.

Allow me to begin with a little bit of background information. The child in question (whose name I will not reveal for obvious reasons,) one night had opted to steal alcohol from a local beverage store with a few of his friends and spend the evening drinking and partying. The teenager decided to drive his father's F-350, after drinking doing seventy mph in a forty mph zone. At some point during the teenagers excursion he collided with a broken down vehicle on the side of the road killing four individuals and injuring eleven others. When the teenager had his blood-alcohol content tested about three hours later it returned the result of a .24 which is three times the legal limit and suggests that his level of intoxication was perhaps upwards of a .30 upon the time of the collision.

Now, here is a little background on his home situation as I am too believe. The teenager was doing well in school, maintaining what I assume to be merit roll. They claimed him to be no less than a B-average student. It was stated that the juvenile did participate in some level of extracurricular activities although I was unable to find anything specific. There was no mention of employment or any active involvement in the community. They claim his home life to be relatively normal. His parents are married and have a good deal of wealth. There were no signs of alcohol or other drug abuse within the immediate family. There were no reports of domestic violence or any extreme issues in the home.

With that being said, it was up to the Judge to make the decision as to whether or not a defense of "Mental Disease or Defect" is an adequate defense given the facts of the case. Now, keep in mind that despite what the romanticized legal shows on the television may have us believe only a minuscule number of cases are allowed to even raise the defense in trial and a minuscule number of those cases are even won on those grounds. Malingering, or people trying to fake as though they have a mental condition is more common than people actually arguing the defense in court. And as anyone with any education in psychology can tell you, very few people can malinger well enough to effectively convince a psychologist.

Anyway, Judge Boyd in all his/her (I can't remember the judge's gender x.x sorry,) decides that this is okay. The lawyers make their arguments; the state portrays an irresponsible teenager that had stolen the lives of 4 people while the defense tries to show that if the juvenile was not so rich that he may have understood that what he was doing is wrong. As it were, the juvenile walks away without a day of jail time. He receives ten years probation and is required to spend if I remember correctly, one year in a rehabilitation facility that his parents are paying for at a grand total of $450,000 a year.

The question I pose to you all is, how do we feel about this? Thoughts, comments, concerns, questions; anything and everything is welcome assuming it is all civil and reasonable.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by mdk
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Laws are already in the works to cover this.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by HeySeuss
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"He had freedoms that no young man would be able to handle.”

With freedom comes responsibility, homeboy. If his parents want to claim he's not responsible for his actions, and that were enshrined in as a legal principle, defacto, they should be charged, as adults, with said responsibility. Buck has to stop somewhere. But in America, it's individual moral agency that counts, and ignorance of the law is not an excuse. So he's responsible whether he likes it or not. Maybe his parents should have done a better job.

The real problem is that the judge was paid off. I can say that -- I'm not in Texas, where she could probably have me shot for sedition.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Gwazi Magnum
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Being 100% honest I always have issues saying "Lock em up for good" cause I keep thinking 'What if it was me? If I ever caused it I'd more than regret it before the sentence was up'.

However, that's just me stating a voice that does speak up in my head when stuff like this happens.
Not my actual opinion/thought on the matter.

My opinion/thought would be this is bullshit. There is no reason for someone to claim being rich as a mental illness.
It's really just rich people going "Look! I have money! Screw you Law! Screw you non-rich people who were hurt!".

And I do have a strong hatred/intolerance for people who do stupid shit like drunk driving, especially when others are harmed/killed by it.
People who cause that to happen do fully deserve the Jail time the law gives them.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Feed
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Greetings,

Yes, they are proposing a bill to prevent this... In California, another one of the ass backwards legal states. But that aside, unfortunately, assuming the bill passes it will still only have the effect of influencing Californian court rooms and may not persuade any others to follow suit.

As for the judge being paid off... I wouldn't doubt there will be a hefty campaign contribution from the family in her near future.

All very valid points so far... but I'm surprised more people don't find this interesting.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by wonderlandalli
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I've had all kinds of anger over this. I live in Houston so I've known about it for a while. The point is, the kid fucked up. No matter if he was a good boy. He killed people. It was an accident, but he killed people. He needs to have some consequences for his actions. What about kids who steal, but they're so poor they have no choice but to steal because there's no money or work in this economy. Do they get off because they're too poor to see its wrong and not just survival? My point is, if this was a kid from a shitty neighborhood with a shitty family life, his ass would be in jail right now with no question of did he know better or not.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Agent B52
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Goddamnit people. The Onion is not a valid newsoutlet-

*reads case*

Correction, should not be a roadmap to the future.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by wonderlandalli
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I just think that a bit of jail time would cure that Affluenza right up.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by HeySeuss
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Affluenza, and the embrace of the concept, also makes it harder to go after cases like this with a straight face.

We need to at least make a pretense of fairness in the justice system here, otherwise the plebes will rise up with pitchforks in hand! Harrumph.
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Agent B52 said
*reads case* Correction, should not be a roadmap to the future.


Apparently, quoting won't include links. Anyway... Did you read about this case on the Onion? If that's the case, perhaps I should have been more specific in my original post. Any legal discussion I partake in is most certainly derived from reliable sources if not the cases themselves or the case books and experiences I have acquired over the years. Sometimes I think the Onion needs to wise up with what they do; satire is great, but people dismiss it so easily these days. Authors like Jonathan Swift go over looked where for the time he wrote his satire "A Modest Proposal" was viewed as being terribly serious and disgusting. But hell, at least people are being taught.

wonderlandalli said
I just think that a bit of jail time would cure that Affluenza right up.


Not only would jail time for the defendant help, but also a good frying pan to the face for the judge that allowed such a bullshit defense through pretrial. Granted, there are conditions that people are might be considered more "affluent" might be prone too such as obesity, substance abuse, et cetera. These things have been viewed based on their life style and their manner of living. I think there is some British psychologist that wrote about it. So perhaps there is a little validity to the idea that growing up rich causes a lack of understanding that actions have consequences and one needs to take responsibilities for those. However, there is a line. And this is it! If a kid gets into a fight or I might even be so bold as to say that if that kid was caught stealing the alcohol he later consumed - okay let's cut the dumb ass a break and try some more rehabilitative. But, four people are dead - four! There needs to be some punitive and retributive actions taken. Now this kid gets to grow up thinking mommy and daddy will always bail him out. Go 'Merica!

HeySeuss said
Affluenza, and the embrace of the concept, also makes it harder to go after with a straight face.We need to at least make a pretense of fairness in the justice system here, otherwise the plebes will rise up with pitchforks in hand! Harrumph.


Oh that's adorable... to think, there should be a semblance of fairness in our justice system!!! Oh the days where white men and white women have an equal chance of going to jail as minority men and minority women. When children can grow up in the hood and aspire to be something other than their best friend's cell mate. But yeah, I heard about that aforementioned case the other day. Pretty crazy. But, I doubt at this point she'll be able to take the "affluenza" defense and on top of that her attorney's can't even make an equal protection act because the fact that she has had a previous DUI will make a difference. However, maybe her lawyers will make an argument like "because she is a poor minority, she was more prone to drinking and cannot be held responsible for her actions because society forced her into a position where drinking and driving under the influence are commonly accepted acts."

Quite frankly, I'm not sure what is wrong with people these days....
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by HeySeuss
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Feed said Oh that's adorable... to think, there should be a semblance of fairness in our justice system!!! Oh the days where white men and white women have an equal chance of going to jail as minority men and minority women. When children can grow up in the hood and aspire to be something other than their best friend's cell mate. But yeah, I heard about that aforementioned case the other day. Pretty crazy. But, I doubt at this point she'll be able to take the "affluenza" defense and on top of that her attorney's can't even make an equal protection act because the fact that she has had a previous DUI will make a difference. However, maybe her lawyers will make an argument like "because she is a poor minority, she was more prone to drinking and cannot be held responsible for her actions because society forced her into a position where drinking and driving under the influence are commonly accepted acts." Quite frankly, I'm not sure what is wrong with people these days....


Ethan Crouch's lawyer (who was doing his job to the best of his ability, to be fair) and the judge (who didn't...) threw that door wide open. With people like that sitting a bench, it's very easy to understand how one can justify tying a judge's hands with mandatory sentencing minimums, even if we see the evil that does. It's the age old problem of giving someone discretion...but also giving them immunity from the consequence of their actions. There should be more investigation and outright punishment of judges, public officials, district attorneys and police that knowingly obstruct or subvert the justice system for their own purposes, while continuing the tradition (hell, even enhancing it) of discretion from the bench.

But it's hard to really argue that in the face of stuff like this.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Agent B52
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Feed said
Apparently, quoting won't include links. Anyway... Did you read about this case on the Onion? If that's the case, perhaps I should have been more specific in my original post. Any legal discussion I partake in is most certainly derived from reliable sources if not the cases themselves or the case books and experiences I have acquired over the years. Sometimes I think the Onion needs to wise up with what they do; satire is great, but people dismiss it so easily these days. Authors like Jonathan Swift go over looked where for the time he wrote his satire "A Modest Proposal" was viewed as being terribly serious and disgusting. But hell, at least people are being taught.


I made an attempt to alleviate a terrible situation slightly. Humour is my defence against the bad things in the world. I am at the same time mildly terrified that a joke article from 2008 is so eerily reminiscent of an actual legal case now. To reiterate, that humorous onion article should have served as a warning. A warning that was not heeded until it was too late.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by wonderlandalli
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Feed said
Now this kid gets to grow up thinking mommy and daddy will always bail him out. Go 'Merica!


It's worse than "mommy and daddy" will fix it. It's, "I'm immune to the justice system because I come from money."
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Foster
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wonderlandalli said
It's worse than "mommy and daddy" will fix it. It's, "I'm immune to the justice system because I come from money."


Except California, and any state with an unsympathetic judge.

Being comparatively poor, having the local government on your side is nice.
-that's like, even if you happen to roll with a tough crowd, s'all okay... the judge is cool with Batman.
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