Yeah, the 7th graders going to high school is a fairly recent change, in fact in the area I grew up I was apart of the last year seven grade to take place in our grade school, (which meant I was graduating to high school with the year 6's.) I'll quickly address the terms grammar school and primary school, in Australia anyway grammar school seems to be a school that have a required level of intellect for students to attend, though I could be wrong as I don't know of many of them, in one case anyway it was just used as a title for the school. Additionally one of the high schools I attended called itself a 'college', though it was no such institute, then again we do not have colleges in Australia, only TAFE and Universities.

In Australia we don't have middle school, it's split up into Primary school and High school. Primary school including from preschool, kindergarten to year six (seven previously) then High school containing from year seven to twelve. I had the misfortune of having to move around a lot and so I attended many different primary schools and a few high schools, no teachers ever made a distinction such as middle school, though we also don't use the term grade school over here. So I guess you could say Primary school is the equivalent to grade school in America and that middle school is instead broken up between our High school and Primary school institutions. Although in most high schools here the grade 10 to 12 students wear a different coloured uniform and are prohibited from going to areas designated as 7 to 9 grade locations without permission, though that might have been an exception for the main high school I attended as it was ripe with violence.

EDIT: Still working on my post, though as of typing this it's pretty late. So I'll wait until tomorrow to give it a proper look over before I post it. There might not be too much interaction between our characters just yet, I hope you do not mind that.

What's a TAFE? In America, 'college' generally refers to education above high school, for example community colleges and universities. I don't don't know if vocational schools, trade schools or adult schools count as college or not.

I'm fine doing posts without our characters interacting for a while.

I'll give you a run down next time I can, but sadly I have to say sorry to do this but an emergency has come up that will keep me from my computer for the next three to four days. I'll get working on my post the moment I return! Sorry about this.

No problem. You take care of what you need to and don't worry about me. I wish you the best, and wait patiently for your return.

Thank you, I'm back now and starting to get back on track. I'll be posting the post that I mentioned six days ago now (sorry about the wait) after some quick revisions.

Though in regards to TAFE, I guess it would be referred to as a type of college if it were in America. It is a type of institute here in Australia that is primarily geared towards awarding specific certificates for different subjects. These certificates are recognised by employers and the subjects range is vast and specific. TAFE also houses preparation courses for those going to University or people who have had to leave high-school before year 10 yet still wish to pursue education(I'd once fit into both these camps).

The unique thing about TAFE here in Australia is that although the certificates aren't as 'prestigious' as a University degree, there are some industries were a TAFE certificate is considered preferable. That is probably because of how refined and specific the TAFE courses can be, put simply, if you are in Australia and you want to learn computer networking and only computer networking, you'd find what you're looking for from TAFE. ~ I assume that the U.S. has at least a somewhat similar system, as TAFE has probably been one of the most 'common sense' educational system structures I've come across so far.

My dad's visiting right now so I probably won't be able to get a post in until Tuesday or Wednesday.

No problem, take as much time as you need!

Alright I'm back. hope my post length is sufficient.

The length is fine, don't worry about using any of my posts as a standard, I'll take quality over quantity any day. Though sometimes I get a bit carried away with my posts.

So resuming the topic of TAFEs, America has "Adult Schools", "Community Colleges", "Professional Schools", and probably too many different names, each slightly different than the others, where one can get certification for various skills, or "Associates degrees". However, certain professional certificates are actually very expensive to even take the class and/or test, with no guarantee that the certificate will be awarded despite the cost being paid. And in the end, companies still view traditional degrees as the only legitimate standard and refuse to 'settle' for 'less' than a college education. Education has become too much of a 'business' in America, a high school diploma means nothing, a bachelors degree means very little, and tuition even at public institutions is skyrocketing. Job seekers run into artificially constructed competition, and end up working for less because they should be 'grateful' to even have a job at all. Businesses demand unfair expectations from recent grads, they say 'you should have learned that in college', when it would be impossible for colleges to provide such specific and narrow training, while businesses shy away from providing on-the-job training as it is considered 'too expensive'. You said TAFEs are very common sense, and that you were sure America must have something like it. Unfortunately, the words 'common sense' and 'American education system' no longer belong in the same sentence anymore.

Sorry for the rant, but I just wanted to share my perspective on it.

No need to be sorry, the insight is interesting. Australia is starting to have some similar issues in regards to treating education as a business, there has been a few protests recently in regards to how Australian politicians are viewing education. TAFE is similar to what you mentioned in regards to Adult Schools, Community Colleges, ect. in that you pay a sum and that will not guarantee you a degree, but until recently the sum was relatively cheap. Sadly though, it looks like that wont last and some degrees will be as expensive as $2,000 to try your hand at the one year course. Though I have not checked recently to see whether that was still a prominent probability or if it is already the case.

I remember reading that there was some concern in regards to the budget recently released by the prominent political party in Australia, some of it's figures indicated that in Australia, there were certain degrees you couldn't hope to pay off under the wages you'd earn for the most prominent profession of said degree. Which is honestly, quite disgusting. If that doesn't tell you there is something wrong with an education system, then what exactly can? It's sad to see knowledge as a commodity to be sold like one would sell clothes or a house.

I can understand the sentiment behind some of the detractors of the above point of views, but making education more expensive seems only to hinder more than it would help when you contrast where money could and should be shifted from, especially in Australia.

~ Also I'll be doing a post tomorrow, got some other topics chewing my time up tonight!

And it's not like I'm saying that one should be guaranteed a degree or certificate just because they paid for it, but the system needs to do more to ensure it's student are learning, rather than make the whole thing this competition for meaningless titles. If you fail, the attitude is basically, "please insert coin to try again." And that's sort of the whole point, I've always seen education as the great equalizer, as the system that grants social mobility and ensures distribution of wealth. But the cost of education has become prohibitive to those who cannot easily afford it, thus reserving education for the wealthy who do not need social mobility at all. It creates the illusion of 'qualification'; an employer would say they hired based on 'merit' and 'qualification', but they actually hired based on wealth, because the wealthier of two individuals had the economic opportunity to get a higher quality education and thus receive better 'qualifications', which ultimately just comes down to prestige anyways, since that's more or less how universities are ranked.

I'm glad we're on the same page, I've talked to people about this before who think I'm too worked up about nothing. I've heard/seen some good things about Australia, but I'm not so naive as to ignore the fact that you face your own share of problems. I hope the people of your country can hold back the monstrous tide. Increasing cost of education and limiting who has access to it is not progress, it is not 'inevitable', it is not financial adjustment, it is not 'keeping up with increased expenditures', it is plutocracy in it's newest and perhaps most insidious form. It is plutocracy in the form of 'education', something that was always meant to end plutocracy in the first place.

And take your time with posts, no rush.

I don't think you are over reacting at all, though I could understand the sentiment that others might think you're getting worked up a bit, you've used some very affirmative language, but I assume that is only because of how strong your conviction is in this regard. I must admit, at first I was adverse to the term plutocracy being used in this case, but that was merely because of my own perception from here in Australia, when trying to look at things from the American perspective, I could understand fully what you mean. There is no doubt that American education seems to be becoming a plutocracy of it's own kind.

I would not be so bold as to say I entirely agree with you, this is a subject I've only engaged mildly and so I feel I am not in a position to judge on the broader scope you have addressed. But I can relate to a lot of what has been said, I hope that there has been some move in America to change these things or at least a descenting voice has been made public. Though in saying that, I've found a few things in America to be very odd from a perception stand of view primarily how the American public react to certain incentives and benefits from the government, so it could be that the general American populace is able to work in a system where education is slowly becoming a plutocracy and only a minority others in America feel isn't worth warranting is adversely affected.

Personally I cannot help but have to cope with what ever happens in Australia as I am currently in the education system and to excuse myself due to ideological reasons would only hurt my current situation, but my convictions will just drive me to move to a country I feel is better suited for my family when the day comes for me to start that road. I understand that something that hurts one part of society usually means another part is benefiting in some way, whether that be weapons manufacturing companies are earning money they don't need at the cost of affordable education and a proper pension for the elderly, or Australian citizens having to pay a little more due to a carbon tax so we can finally enforce a sliver of responsibility onto our mining companies. Regardless of the out come there is always a driving force behind these decisions and in the battle of convictions in regards to politics the loudest always wins. Though I assume corruption in American politics warps such a process quite considerably.

Regardless, I find abandoning sentiments of loyalty to any one government can be reassuring, I find many others disagree with me in this regard, but ultimately I'm not going to pledge myself as a loyal citizen to a country who's values do not represent my own where I feel is important. That said, I also don't believe that excuses me from participating in the affairs of the government of said country, I hear almost verbatim; "If you aren't a loyal Aussie, then you have no right to interfere."; I've seen similar rhetoric from American's too, I think these behaviours belie a much deeper manipulation, but I digress.

There is a lot we could do to make a difference, but once you take into account measures of effectiveness and realism, the scope is narrowed to possibilities so far fetched even conviction does not sustain clear justification to these actions, though that is subjective. I guess it also depends on what you perceive to be the under lying reason for all of this.

Anyway, I'm working on my IC post so that should be up soon!

I can't say that I'm an expert on economics, I can only say that it has become a big enough problem that it managed to come to my attention. it also helped to explain my own confusion with the system.

People in America are aware that a problem exists, but the public is either distracted by artificial problems or they are hit with a sense of powerlessness and a sense that they are unable to change the system, and the few politicians who are against the problem lose the backing of their parties and funders and slip into obscurity. The American people need to mobilize, and learn to once again flex its democratic muscle. I don't think its hopeless, but there might be some growing pains. And even though things seem to be getting worse, they ultimately aren't that bad yet, but something needs to be done before things get really, really bad.

As for your situation, I would never condone abandoning your education. Derive what benefit you can, even from a broken system, make do with what you have. The benefits of education continue to exist, it is that attaining those benefits has becoming increasingly harder that I object to.

As for the give and take, it is s serious problem in America especially with unnecessary military funding. I don't remember the numbers, but the percentage spent on the military, and on prisons, and on banks is exorbitantly more than the funding spent on education, social projects, etc. We don't need to be engaging in these expensive wars that destabilize the world to distract ourselves from our own real problems.

Unfortunately, too many people think Nationalism is a sufficient substitute to morality. Identity and exclusivity become more important than universal values, more important than compassion. Why ask hard questions when the government can spoon feed you what you're supposed to think and believe? Nationalism has destroyed this world. It is an artificially constructed sense of belonging and demands unquestioning loyalty giving in return a sense of superiority and entitlement and hypocritical values. Americans say we stand for "Truth, Justice, Liberty", and simply saying it means that it is true and we are suddenly and magically above criticism.

Anyways, we can stop talking about this whenever you get tired of political stuff.

Also, I wanted to apologize for the late post, I don't actually have an excuse other than I failed to notice that you had posted already.

I don't mind the dicussion, it is very interesting. Though I find myself hard pressed to add anything further without it being a digression. I agree with what you are saying to the extent that I can as a layperson, especially in regards to the idea of Nationalism.

Additionally, don't fret over late posts! I wont be able to get one out myself till tomorrow, take as much time as you need.

Sorry my post came in slow!

No worries!

Oh crap, I just remembered that I've been forgetting to add arcs to the vault, I've got quite a few written on pen and paper.

I'll tackle that a bit later, since it isn't very important yet. Though I'll clue you in on one arc idea I have, I've been thinking of something that'd promote our characters to try their hand at a variety of Victus related skills, even if just on a very basic level. The idea involves a festival at a shrine where certain activities in the festival are practiced by the monks of the shrine, civilians are allowed to participate in competition with the monks in regards to these activities, but only during the festival. The activities themselves will be very minor looking feats of Victus magic that use tools that are very rich in essent naturally.

The basic idea is that the activities are far too minor to draw any serious scientific investigation, and that to do well at them one would need to be quite skilled at various Victus related skills(such as summoning, alchemy, rituals, ect.). The monks themselves, consider the activities to be divine in nature and practice very often, due to how minor the feats are (essentially they are just very inefficient ways of doing typical extremely simple processes) and the monks themselves are in a way, only inadvertently using Victus magic and over ever exist on the border of awakening their Victus forms. ~~ Just a leisurely arc that could operate yearly, something not too hectic and could be used to emphasise some slice of life aspects if we wanted to use it.

Okay, in a couple of posts we're going to have an interesting experience!

Essentially the ritual that we mistakenly make with the parchments is going to force us into our Victus forms and take us temporarily right into the Realm of the glyph we've been given. The experience will be very brief, as any more time than a few seconds will cause our Victus forms to essentially be consumed by the local essent. When we come back, we'll have our books.

Are you still taking 'Order'?

Yes, I'd still like Order, please. And the festival competition arc you mentioned in your previous post sounds good.