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Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Darcs
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Inequality can't exist.


Humans are inherently unequal.

Kek

Inequality as in humans being different from one another =! Inequality perpetuated by the state and capitalist ideology designed to create economic disparity

Only yields comparatively fruitful results in Western European (see: non-clannish) societies.

I don't see the Middle East or Africa suddenly accepting that homosexuality is normal, that transgender people deserve a safe space in the contemporary world , and that women need to be unshackled from the potent, malevolent grip of patriarchy.

Except it is happening? Just last week a Saudi prince promised to donate $32 billion in order to "help build bridges to foster cultural understanding, develop communities, empower women, enable youth, provide vital disaster relief and create a more tolerant and accepting world." Women can vote in Saudi Arabia this year. Lebanon legalized homosexual acts just last year, and although I'm not the biggest fan of Israel, they are one of the most progressive countries in the world when it comes to women and LGBT rights.

A Transgender celebrity in Angola has been in the international spotlight for years, and is one of the best selling artists in the country. Mozambique just decriminalised homosexuality on June 1st. In fact, as far as Africa goes, it's actually the remaining colonial Christian influence that's left so many nations with the cultural attitudes they have today (obviously that's a vast generalization, but the influence still remains) pre-scramble for Africa, women were pretty much on par with men in most areas, sexual fluidity and homosexuality between men and women was open in places like Lesotho and the Congo-- Hatshepsut may have literally identified as a man. But that was like a million years ago-- back to the point--

Does that mean it's over? No. In a lot of these places, it's worse for women, LGBTQ individuals, and other minority groups than most Westerners can even imagine. But that doesn't mean that things aren't slowly getting better.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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If you want them to embrace your egalitarian philosophy and its keystone principles, you're going to have to radically genetically engineer them to be something that they are clearly not.


Damn dude, like, did your school have any books printed after 1900? All of this pseudo-darwinism was thrown out before your Great-Grandma was born. Like, the 300 years or so that western society developed liberalism isn't enough time for us to somehow become genetically liberal. This isn't genetics, its cultural patterns, and those are too fluid to be explained by genetics.
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Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Keyguyperson
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-Snip-


So I could kill off everyone who opposes homosexuality, which would eventually wipe out the "homos ewwwwwww" gene, and that would be morally acceptable because I'm a more fit creature, which I've demonstrated by murdering millions?

What if I killed everyone but five hundred people whom I like for arbitrary reasons. Are those five hundred superior beings to everyone who died because they're still alive? What if they're all obese, drooling idiots? Are they still superior?
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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<Snipped quote by ASTA>

<Snipped quote by ASTA>
Kek

Inequality as in humans being different from one another =! Inequality perpetuated by the state and capitalist ideology designed to create economic disparity

<Snipped quote by ASTA>
Except it is happening? Just last week a Saudi prince promised to donate $32 billion in order to "help build bridges to foster cultural understanding, develop communities, empower women, enable youth, provide vital disaster relief and create a more tolerant and accepting world." Women can vote in Saudi Arabia this year. Lebanon legalized homosexual acts just last year, and although I'm not the biggest fan of Israel, they are one of the most progressive countries in the world when it comes to women and LGBT rights.

A Transgender celebrity in Angola has been in the international spotlight for years, and is one of the best selling artists in the country. Mozambique just decriminalised homosexuality on June 1st. In fact, as far as Africa goes, it's actually the remaining colonial Christian influence that's left so many nations with the cultural attitudes they have today (obviously that's a vast generalization, but the influence still remains) pre-scramble for Africa, women were pretty much on par with men in most areas, sexual fluidity and homosexuality between men and women was open in places like Lesotho and the Congo-- Hatshepsut may have literally identified as a man. But that was like a million years ago-- back to the point--

Does that mean it's over? No. In a lot of these places, it's worse for women, LGBTQ individuals, and other minority groups than most Westerners can even imagine. But that doesn't mean that things aren't slowly getting better.


It's also worth noting that in the words of Shusha Guppy homosexuality was an accepted practice in the Arab world in the pre-modern area, if as a likely and partly a side-effect of the post-Hanbali world of Islam with more intensive sex-segregation. But from the 16th and through to the 19th century. And in as far as Shush'a book goes (Veiled Might of the Harem) it makes the assertion:

"In the pre-modern era, Western travelers were amazed to find Islam "a sex-positive religion" and men openly expressing their love for young boys in words and gestures."

The ideological shift against Homosexuality could be chalked up to European influence in the 19th century with the Arab world and Turkish spheres being largely taken over by British and French forces after the first World War and introducing various laws or rules to "normalize" the region according to Europe, which included isolating homosexuality and suggesting that it's abnormal or a minority among common society. And it could be assumed that later in that same century with Cold War politics such issues polarized themselves more with the East vs West great game of influence over the region selecting and putting into power increasingly stricter regimes simply because they're friendly to one side or the other.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Weird Tales
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I wasn't expecting this to get so many responses, and I want to thank you all for the civil debate. But I have to politely disagree with the ignorant posters who said misandry doesn't exist. Since people like using the dictionary as a defense for feminism I will use the dictionary definition for misandry

mis·an·dry
miˈsandrē/
noun
noun: misandry

dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men.

There you go, it exists and accept it.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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And even a massive chunk of European aggressive anti-homosexuality comes from the 19th century nation-building era, where statesmen became concerned about the masculinity of their states. It is easy to blame this shit on Christianity, but as anyone who has actually read the biblical evidence can see how it's a minor rule drawn from a chapter that also includes instructions for how God likes his meat cooked and rules about how to build separate housing for women on their menses. Historically, from what I can tell, the medieval world used Homosexuality as a sort of legislative insult, like something you'd tack on to the real charges in order to make the accused look bad. A sort of "You embezzled funds from the church, and you are also fuckin' GAY!"

This isn't to say homosexuality was as acceptable as it would have been to the ancient Greeks, but rather that so long as it wasn't out in public people would general be OK with it being a rumor. There would be exceptions, but they would always be tied to something else, even if that something else was just a grudge.

Until you get to the Enlightenment. It is easy to think of the Enlightenment as the time where human rights were first popularized and science ruled supreme, but it was also a time when cold machine-thinking was admired and pseudo-science ruled the popular imagination. Its easier to imagine homosexuality as some sort of disease when you are actually in the practice of classifying diseases, and the new Darwinian and Malthusian concern about how population worked brought social deviation to the spotlight, and made it something that was damned by leaders who wanted to develop the manliest populations of modern soldiers that they could. After all, they needed to breed all those guys who would die in the trenches in 1914.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by The Patriarch
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These threads always restore my faith in humanity. Because nobody ever agrees with The Patriarch.


Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Nilesapa
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Not like it will matter if the feminists or MRAs get there way once the robots take over. Since we will than be all equal under the all seeing digital god who watches your every move and reads your every action.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by The Patriarch
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Not like it will matter if the feminists or MRAs get there way once the robots take over. Since we will than be all equal under the all seeing digital god who watches your every move and reads your every action.


It's better than eating menstrual blood pancakes for breakfast in a feminist ruled society.



@Keyguyperson

Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Keyguyperson
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<Snipped quote by Nilesapa>

It's better than eating menstrual blood pancakes for breakfast in a feminist ruled society.



I really want to know if someone actually managed to make that now.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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Surely blood doesn't retain that color when cooked? That looks like food dye.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Keyguyperson
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Surely blood doesn't retain that color when cooked? That looks like food dye.


Well duh, it's pretty obvious that it isn't real. What I want to know is whether or not you could actually make a pancake using blood in general.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by ASTA
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<Snipped quote by ASTA>

Damn dude, like, did your school have any books printed after 1900? All of this pseudo-darwinism was thrown out before your Great-Grandma was born. Like, the 300 years or so that western society developed liberalism isn't enough time for us to somehow become genetically liberal. This isn't genetics, its cultural patterns, and those are too fluid to be explained by genetics.


I don't remember behavioral genetics being discredited.

If anything, it's gained momentum. Exponential growth in technological innovation tends to accelerate the frequency of groundbreaking discoveries, not retard it.

This isn't genetics, its cultural patterns, and those are too fluid to be explained by genetics.
]

The cultural makeup of various human civilizations and societies are, in many ways, diametric manifestations of their native population's collective psychological profile. The overt cultural and administrative texture of Japan, for example, differs from that of Jordan's because the Yamato people are measurably dissimilar to Arabs when it comes to a distinctive assortment of psychological attributes. Both are subsets of the encompassing human species, but they've evolved in different geographical locales over the course of several thousand years.

Culture influences genetics; genetics influences culture.

<Snipped quote by ASTA>

So I could kill off everyone who opposes homosexuality, which would eventually wipe out the "homos ewwwwwww" gene, and that would be morally acceptable because I'm a more fit creature, which I've demonstrated by murdering millions?

What if I killed everyone but five hundred people whom I like for arbitrary reasons. Are those five hundred superior beings to everyone who died because they're still alive? What if they're all obese, drooling idiots? Are they still superior?


You know, you could've just skipped to the point and evoked Godwin's Law by comparing me to Hitler.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Keyguyperson
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<Snipped quote by Keyguyperson>

You know, you could've just skipped to the point and evoked Godwin's Law by comparing me to Hitler.


You know, he ate sugar. You monster.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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The cultural makeup of various human civilizations and societies are, in many ways, diametric manifestations of their native population's collective psychological profile. The overt cultural and administrative texture of Japan, for example, differs from that of Jordan's because the Yamato people are measurably dissimilar to Arabs when it comes to a distinctive assortment of psychological attributes. Both are subsets of the encompassing human species, but they've evolved in different geographical locales over the course of several thousand years.

Culture influences genetics; genetics influences culture.


It doesn't hold up to scrutiny at the level you are bringing it up to. There are definitely cultural predispositions based on environmental factors; lactose tolerance comes to mind. But when we reach the level we are at now, where we are talking about political structures, the frame of time is simply too small for evolution to cause sweeping population changes. It is just as ridiculous to say that people in the middle east are genetically programmed toward tyranny as it is to say that middle easterners are genetically programmed to find oil. Sure, you could outline a pseudo-scientific bullshit argument for both of those things based on who thrives and who doesn't, but the reality of the situation is that neither political organization nor economic reliance on oil has been stable enough to become an evolved trait.

The best way to consider this is to think about what happens when you transplant populations from one place to another. If you can find proof that there is any population in the world that never thrives when transplanted into another culture, your argument might have some merit, but if you find any number of people of middle eastern descent successfully living in a western society and following its rules, than your theories need to be rethought.

This is a situation where you must remember not to over-inflate the actual science. Don't get modern genetic theories confused with 19th century racial politics.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Nilesapa
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ASTA, like with what vilage said evolution even with psychological doesn't work on such short timescales.

If this were the case, than why is it that Japan was able to go from a feudal society to a modern democracy in what, 200-300 or so years? Spend thousands of years in clans killing each other, spend a few centuries closed off to the world under a united shogun, proceed to spend a good seven decades conquering everyone else, than after one lost war deciding to adopt western democracy doesn't really work with the "culture is genetically inherited" belief.

Because the fundamental issue with what you are asserting is that culture and genetics are intertwined. Which makes no sense at all, I hate to break it to you. Cultures may evolve and may have ethnic associations (like the han ethnicity and china), but someone from one ethnic adopting and assimilating into a foreign culture happens all the time. Culture is far more a identity thing than a genetic thing, which is why cultures can come in and die out even if the ethnic still exists. Egypt is a good example of that. Ethnic Egyptians still exist, but they ceased worshiping the sun millenniums ago. The ancient world and how they handled gods actually debunks the 'culture is inherited' idea as well.

For how can you explain to me why there were celts and romans worshiping Ra?
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by The Patriarch
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<Snipped quote by Vilageidiotx>

Well duh, it's pretty obvious that it isn't real. What I want to know is whether or not you could actually make a pancake using blood in general.


Feminism is still incredibly illogical at times and uses science as only a way to prove their viewpoints. They're no different than any other extreme group, anyone who doesn't agree with you is your enemy and must be converted or silenced.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Keyguyperson
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Feminism is still incredibly illogical at times and uses science as only a way to prove their viewpoints. They're no different than any other extreme group, anyone who doesn't agree with you is your enemy and must be converted or silenced.


I don't see an answer to my question here. Go try to make a blood pancake, and tell me how it goes. Pics or it didn't happen, and don't forget the recipe.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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Feminism is still incredibly illogical at times and uses science as only a way to prove their viewpoints. They're no different than any other extreme group, anyone who doesn't agree with you is your enemy and must be converted or silenced.


2x Laugh Laugh
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Darcs
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That actually looks really good.
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