Come to Dorne, we will accept all of you dirty Greyjoys and convert you to the Red Faith! Leave the North to the stinky Wolvies.

@Dawnscroll watch it,don't insult eachother. Men in the Iron fleet have raided more than fishig villages. There the ones who take castlees and forts

Where?! We all started out the same territory as three hundred years right now. As it stands, you guys are making it seem like there's nobody who can touch these guys. They have absurd and powerful fighters, they have ships which can

Anything that might give me an advantage in my own TURF you guys are handwavung away. So you're saying losing to the Ironborn a few hundred miles inland? Seriously? I cN strategically explain how he'd be screwed six ways to Sunday because of how he decided to attack, but that gets shoved under the rug? He can just retreat at the first sign of trouble?

The North has had over 300 years to learn naval warfare. Our only enemies have been the greyjoys. We HAD a navy and ships BEFORE the war of the five kings.

But fine, let's go with everything Vhager said and stick with it?

What's my advantage then? Where am I allowed to say "Aha, I have this!". You won't give me the local terrain, you won't give me better fighters, hell I don't even have a good harvest! Where's my ace in the hole, because you've been chewing away all of them.

Honestly, I agree that the Northmen would win this fight hands down. But that's just me, and that's doing my own research. I mean only because everyone else is stating opinions. *shrug*

@Dawnscroll K, calm your shit, we're letting YOU win, You have the advantage on land, he has it at sea, he has it if he surprises you, you do if you prepare. There! Thats all we have to say!

Why is this so complicated? Why?

I'm pleading rule 9, so it is my decision, and right now, he wins round one, you win round two, no PCs die, no PCs are captured, but the armies are hurt.

There, it's done, you're even. We don't need a titanpad, that's it. Now please, move on.

@Dawnscroll
You are forgetting, the Iron born have been independent since Daenerys Targaryen re took Westeros, Bluetommy allowed that

I NEVER said they were amazing fighters, I said their better at ship to ship hn the Northman
I extended the time it would have taken them to get to Torrhen square, theyd lose almost half of their 40 strong fleet.

The Galleyes can LITERALLY smash the longships! Thats a shit ton of dead ironborn early in the fight, and 300 years to build and train a navy does not match a millenia of Naval experience.

The Northman ARE superior fighters in general, they are also more loyal, but they have not lived their lives on the deck of a ship.

The Ironborn are nor untouchable, if they were the westerlands would be no more, as it stands Jakkon took only fair Isle

I will say, the belief that the Ironborn would stopm the north is ridiculous, neither side has a real trumpcard. Torrhen square is home in the north, this far Inland your ships have the advantage but it will not be a slaughter! I was personally not a fan of the slaughter that was Bear Island, it was strangely unimpressive for such an ancient house whose words are "Here we Stand" and all they did was sit the fuck down.

NO ONE has a trump card, Ironborn are NOT legendary fighters, but they have lived and fought on ships their whole lives. They are far from home, and will pay dearly, I expect no more than 10 ships return from Jakkons fleet, but it isn't a slaughter cause they will fight until they break, and unlike the north theey WILL break. They WILL lose the will to fight, your men will not

Who knows. Come raid the Westerlands, Vhaegar, it's going to be funny if say, a Yunkish ship saw the Ironborn already raiding...

"We've spotted an Ironborn ship leaving the coast, Master!"
"For fuck's sake, why the fuck are they stealing OUR people to steal?"
"They've been doing it for centuries, Master!"
"....."

Still think everybody would have a burning good time in Dorne.

@Apoalo Can I just come with you guys? Sip some wine, have a few paramours. Sounds good.

Of course! Bring the North with you, we can always use more firewo-- Citizens. No but seriously Dorne is such a great place to live right? Ignore the Scorpions, Manticores, and all the snakes... And the heat... We have awesome Lemons though! Best Lemons in the seven kingdoms. And Paramours! Of course! *Plays the Shrek song replacing the word Dulop with Dorne.*

@ApoaloYou know what improves a burning good time? Scented candles. Boss candles. Vale Candles.
Place an order for a dozen scented Vale candles today!

*pouts* I like dorn...

Also uh... who is supposedly posting next?

@Major Ursa I'll take 10 boxes! We'll pay you with Lemons! YAY LEMONS!

@agentmanatee Who doesn't like Dorne! It's such a wonderful place! Come, bring your worries and soldiers to Dorne. We have cookies! Oh, and sand... Lots of sand...

I also believe we're sort of letting the Riverlands/Vale post. Going to send my own reply after Conrad. BUT! I do know a certain Dornishman who happens to be in Pentos. *wink*

@ApoaloBuy a dozen boxes, and you get this year's prize winning giant pumpkin signed by the lord paramount himself!

Arecel: "You want to sell the Vale's bulk of scented candles, don't you?"
Ellion: *sour expression as he signs the pumpkin*

But no, uh, I wouldn't wait on my post just yet...like I said, I'm mainly cooking up some CS to add in.

@Major UrsaHmmmmm. Fine! A dozen boxes, one can't get enough scented candles. They are used by the Fire Temple! We'll send the Lemon shipment with some Lord of Light Firecrackers that burn everything around them! They're great!

Hm, well... I got a beginning post prepped for tomorrow but must go to the beds so regardless my post will be up tomorrow evening at some point.

I can't wait to post again, it's going to be fun.

@agentmanatee Who doesn't like Dorne! It's such a wonderful place! Come, bring your worries and soldiers to Dorne. We have cookies! Oh, and sand... Lots of sand...

I don't like sand. It coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.

The Reach is nice, it's sunny (but it will be rainy soon, as Autumn really hits hard..I can imagine that The Reach had basically an Indian Summer of sorts, it was really, really nice, now it's going a little rainier). It's like Holland met the South of France met Somerset (in England), it's a mixture of a warm, pleasant place with lots of rivers and greenery, flowers and so forth, with this gentle sort of . Everyone says they want to go on holiday in Highgarden for good reason :) . We've got Arbor Gold, we've got plenty of food, we've got a lot of nice things going on here. Dorne has lemons and an awful lot of scented people candles, we have roses and wine, and what is basically a fairytale of a landscape, rolling hills, plains dotted with white castles, distant mountains in the Dornish marches. I don't know what a commoner Reachman sounds like, but in my mind, the South-West accent of England rings to mind- if the North is well, t'up North, then The Reach I would sort of assume is this sort of West Country farmer accent, unless you're of nobility.

I posted about two days ago, and while I understand people want to move things on really quick, I am finding it difficult to post as regularly as I would like, just due to an absence of creative juices. As soon as I can though, I will probably do something. I am tempted to explore the avenue of Lord Lewes of Torrentpeak getting involved into a border squabble with his neighbours across the mountains, and considering they are fairly steep and very inaccessible, it would be something that would be a little interesting to see- perhaps small-scale fighting over villages in the passes, something that perhaps both Lord Paramounts are trying to defuse.

Hmm, I could have Done do the raiding as the way I sort have have the Dornish military. If you step foot in our lands expect traps, and lots of arrows. When I post next I'll describe then in detail. They've taken a lot of elements from Ghiscari Legions and Dothraki and implemented it in their training.

And the mountains near the border is one is one of the training camps.

It is not something Garland likes, but it's this minor squabble, so to speak. The same goes for the Reach, albeit it differently- it's defense in depth, not defence in trapping. You could walk in, genuinely, just run through half of the Reach but you'd be stopped dead in your tracks by an assembled host, that would basically offer so much resistance, you'd have to turn back. It's number that wins wars, and when you attack, you can't do guerilla tactics very easily- but the Reach can reclaim it's own lands very, very fast, owing to a greater knowledge of roads, and the fact that there is not much to hide in. You can't blanket a whole force in a rosefield, you can make a guerilla strike, but not much of one, so everything else is forced to be placed right into the open, unless you pick an area of the Reach that has hills or is covered in conifers, and even then, the sheer size allows for flanking, and for forces to just spread wide. Exposure is good- and in that vein, that's how the Reach works, giving them that defense in depth, slowing down any enemy force to a halt before they manage to begin sieging. It definitely is a big difference- the Reach does big, loud, massive battles well.

The Dornish are good at guerilla warfare, that is one certain thing that can be said, something that The North have kinda implemented themselves with their Ranging Patrols. The Reach is all about their huge armies, and as I briefly explained, there is a concept of the Tyrell Retinues- or basically, semi-professional soldiers, they are no legion, but they are this idea that there has been a development in the armed forces of the Reach. I took the idea from both in concept ideas of foreign armies that supported Dany, as well as the Reach's own approach to enforce it's political soft power, each formed from both local levies as well as men who are paid to basically train and maintain a garrison force. There's one in Tumbleton deployed to King's Landing, and there is one in Torrentpeak, spread across the border as a border guard, and to stop Dornish raiding, though the minor lords are generally so far from Highgarden, they raid into Dorne sometimes with bad effects. It is not fun for anyone really, it's kinda a blight for Garland, and no doubt, for your Princess.

But yeah, apart from those roughly 20,000 mixed Retinues, from Knights to Pikes and Archers in that force, there's about another 60,000 men that can be called from the banners to war, that are NOT Retinue men. It is a classic sort of assembly of an army- it is Westerosi, through and through. Reach Knights at this point rival the Knights of the Vale, maybe not in training but are equipped as probably the richest Knights of the Kingdom due to The Reach's relative prospertity, which support pike and poleaxe forces (something that has had a huge backing from Gregor, pikes basically being the death of any charging horse, if used appropriately), as well as longbow-equipped archers, using a mixture of bodkins and broadheads. Crossbows are an interesting thought, but considering how much like England and France the Reach feels like, it didn't feel right for me to have them as an en-masse as of just yet, being something that I think would be far more appropriate in a city-deployed retinue rather than on a battlefield. If the Reach in the War of the Five Kings was a force that had a typical Medieval look, at this point, it is almost a Mid to Late Medieval army, mixing a funny combination of heavily plate and mail armoured Reach Knights with lances and spears, longbowmen, pike and poleaxe infantry and in with all of that, swordsmen from place to place. I like to think of it as a classic Westerosi offering, but with what a century or two of military academic progress would look like in The Reach, to satisfy political and actual combative needs- there is no exotic way that they fight, no Dornish spearmen or no crossbows or horse archers, it is bogged down in this idea of seriously hard charges, interspersed with arrows, any counter attacks dealt with by pikes. It's traditional, but it's advanced traditional, that is what I would imagine it to be- the only way forward for the Reach if it wanted to develop anything further would be to actually formalize it's forces into a professional army, though that would reduce their numbers by about two-thirds, I would imagine, and be hugely costly compared to what they have now- though it would be one that would be fucking terrifying, what with it being paid to basically be at the height of it's military prowess, and would be perfect if the Reach was far more involved in war than it has been.

I imagine that the Tyrell doctrine for war is basically a mixture of small-scale rapid deployment, being able to beat any massive host to cities such as King's Landing and to defend the wide frontier with Dorne and the Shield Islands, whilst if you want more than that, you'll need to wait if you want to go fully to war- and while it pisses vassal houses off, it gives an extraordinarily large army. It's not guerilla warfare, it is the traditional way of doing things- you march over plains, you will fuck anyone over, you march into mountains and heavy, heavy forests, unless the force is led by commanders such as the Tarlys who would almost definitely know the Dornish commanders inside out, they will get pretty bogged down and suffer attrition while pushing forward. Remmeber, Dorne beat the Targeryens back, they were never conquered by any military force- and for now, the same pretty much stands, that idea of Legions and sort of this hugely attritioning warfare, from the sands, is something I like.

This is why I love GoT- it's the contrasts, changes and ways that things are done in different Kindoms, it's just so interesting to observe how some take an approach to war in what particular way with what they have at their disposal- ie. the Reach's army is not going to be guerilla when it is that large, it is not possible, so they are good at what they should be good at.