You two are going to drive me nuts...

I gave you a pretty good idea what we're planning. :>

<Snipped quote by Fallenreaper>

I gave you a pretty good idea what we're planning. :>

I know but I'm a greedy little thing.

*plops yet another playlist for your hearing enjoyment*

Heroes! Cowards! No More!

Well, what should we talk about? I'm twitching for some chatter but not sure what to talk about CAH wise. Though the first thing that comes to mind is the topic NMS and I talked about last night, mainly the difference between meta humans and mutants. Not sure how interested anyone would be in that though... Any takers?

@Fallenreaper I would. But sadly I'm at work.

@Fallenreaper That is a good question actually. I think maybe the difference is whether or not the trait is hereditary or innate might have something to do with it?

Well, a mutation is technically a change to the original DNA code, so it isn't inherited but it can occur during the first DNA transcription phase, or something along those lines. Or it could happen later in life, just by accident, or because of some outside influence.

Point being, I don't think a meta-human and mutant distinction technically works, scientifically, I presume meta-human simply means any abnormal human which covers people who are born with powers, or develop them at a later date, where-as mutant means anyone with a DNA mutation.

I dunno though, I've forgotten more than I ever learned, A-level biology was a long time ago.

@fdeviant @Melonhead

The way I usually saw it was like this:

Metas were often man's attempt, either on purpose or by accident, to overcome nature's design.
Mutants were often nature's way to alter and evolve due to circumstances, namely since both are pretty closely tied together.

I looked up the definition over mutant which is basically this in the wiki:

In biology and especially genetics, a mutant is an organism or a new genetic character arising or resulting from an instance of mutation, which is a base-pair sequence change within the DNA of a gene or chromosome of an organism. The natural occurrence of genetic mutations is integral to the process of evolution. The study of mutants is an integral part of biology; by understanding the effect that a mutation in a gene has, it is possible to establish the normal function of that gene.

In baseline, mutations are created by evolution which means the gene is there but not switched on or it is altered from its original creation. Meta, usually, felt more like it was Man's attempt to prove he was better than Nature and improve on what he saw was a flaw. Some times it was accidental and people were just tossed into chemicals, bitten by radioactive spiders, etc in comics which made them beyond human due to humans trying to improve on what natural life they were given. (granted, some chems were never stated why they were there.)

I asked this because I was attempted to explore those small differences at some point as Gene Co will be creating a cure for Meta humans thanks to the virus that Rach has. It is able to rewrite and construct DNA, both triggering naturally existing genes that give humans abilities and with more human tampering can control what abilities manifest and denied. It stands to reason the virus could also be used to either temporary fix, alter or completely cease a meta human's abilitiesm turning them back into their original forms. Mutants, however, due to their DNA, and it being apart of them rather than man made, would be unaffected for the most part.

After talking with Xer, in order to sort his origin story out, I considered the possibility that the mutant population would start to rise since the Meta's increase from the domes. Sort of like a world wide evolutionary event and might be fun to play out over time, though again this is a sandbox and everyone's thoughts differ over the subject of Metas and Mutants. So, pardon the ramble. xD

So you want to distinguish meta-humans as artificial and mutants as natural? Makes sense.

@Fallenreaper I would. But sadly I'm at work.

*hugs* You can give your thoughts over on the subject later.

So you want to distinguish meta-humans as artificial and mutants as natural? Makes sense.

Pretty much as that's how they are in my mind. Though considering this is a sandbox, not everyone is going to see it like that and I don't want to end up pushing my thoughts on anyone. Hence why I asked thoughts and such before I shared mine.

@fdeviant @Melonhead

The way I usually saw it was like this:

Metas were often man's attempt, either on purpose or by accident, to overcome nature's design.
Mutants were often nature's way to alter and evolve due to circumstances, namely since both are pretty closely tied together.

I looked up the definition over mutant which is basically this in the wiki:

<Snipped quote>

In baseline, mutations are created by evolution which means the gene is there but not switched on or it is altered from its original creation. Meta, usually, felt more like it was Man's attempt to prove he was better than Nature and improve on what he saw was a flaw. Some times it was accidental and people were just tossed into chemicals, bitten by radioactive spiders, etc in comics which made them beyond human due to humans trying to improve on what natural life they were given. (granted, some chems were never stated why they were there.)

I asked this because I was attempted to explore those small differences at some point as Gene Co will be creating a cure for Meta humans thanks to the virus that Rach has. It is able to rewrite and construct DNA, both triggering naturally existing genes that give humans abilities and with more human tampering can control what abilities manifest and denied. It stands to reason the virus could also be used to either temporary fix, alter or completely cease a meta human's abilitiesm turning them back into their original forms. Mutants, however, due to their DNA, and it being apart of them rather than man made, would be unaffected for the most part.

After talking with Xer, in order to sort his origin story out, I considered the possibility that the mutant population would start to rise since the Meta's increase from the domes. Sort of like a world wide evolutionary event and might be fun to play out over time, though again this is a sandbox and everyone's thoughts differ over the subject of Metas and Mutants. So, pardon the ramble. xD

Makes sense. That's a distinction I can get behind.

Well, what should we talk about? I'm twitching for some chatter but not sure what to talk about CAH wise. Though the first thing that comes to mind is the topic NMS and I talked about last night, mainly the difference between metahumans and mutants. Not sure how interested anyone would be in that though... Any takers?

I really don't think distinguish between these two terms. Since both of these terms come from DC and Marvel comics (respectively), let's see how they use the terms.

Mutation is caused by the X-Gene in the mutants' DNA.

One of the Dominators discovered that some humans had a "biological variant" he called the meta-gene (also spelled "metagene"). This gene often lay dormant until a moment of extraordinary physiological stress activated it, and upon activation it would use the source of the biostress as a catalyst for "genetic change," resulting in metahuman abilities.

So, basically, metahuman and mutant is basically the same term (some sort of gene gives the potential for powers). However, DC wikia also mentions that other characters, like Superman, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman, have been called "Metahumans".

Therefore, I would say that "metahuman" should be a catch all for all people with super powers. I also would not limit "mutant" with "abilities produced by genetics from birth". Mutations, from what I recall from biology, can happen whenever in a animal (or a living organism's) life.

*points at Ded as a case her logic didn't work*

Though honestly, using Meta and Mutant indiscriminately does bother me to a degree. Even using Meta human in the same fashion as you use Human to describe Hispanic, Asian, Caucasian, etc. would indicate there's more than one category/species of Mutant which begs the question what is that other type?

@Fallenreaper Well the conditions under which one develops powers or becomes Mutant or Meta describes those subcategories. I can also see where the two might be used interchangeably by an uninformed mass, just as people ignorant to different magical practices label all practitioners as sorcerers, mages, witches, etc. To those who don't know their definitions, these words all mean the same thing.

Also, "Meta-human" might be a larger umbrella term under which mutant, hybrid (such as humans with alien DNA), and etc. would classify as subcategories of Meta.

@Fallenreaper Well the conditions under which one develops powers or becomes Mutant or Meta describes those subcategories. I can also see where the two might be used interchangeably by an uninformed mass, just as people ignorant to different magical practices label all practitioners as sorcerers, mages, witches, etc. To those who don't know their definitions, these words all mean the same thing.

Also, "Meta-human" might be a larger umbrella term under which mutant, hybrid (such as humans with alien DNA), and etc. would classify as subcategories of Meta.

Isn't the difference, primarily, between sorcerers, mages, witches and etc is where and how they access their abilities? I'm not heavily knowledgeable about the different terms and their uses so I'll admit I'm a bit guilty of this myself. Though if I do know the difference, I make efforts to keep them separate.

Using Meta as an umbrella term for something like that, I wouldn't have issues with as I never considered it before. Though that would make Meta humans less like mutants and more like enhanced humans to me which is reasonable. Though I do consider the term mutant more associated with the Marvel X-men type and description as few actually have shown up in the IC really. At least those officially claimed and confirmed to be mutants.

There is a clear distinction between the meta creations of the domes and natural born ones. So the cure, and idea I gave Xer, would still actually work out as the mutations within the genes would be different than those activated by the Domes.

The bad part about a Sandbox rp, namely one as free form where pretty much everything is accepted, is that it makes certain aspects harder. Example is the scientific stuff over how meta humans are created and formed, unless it's the player's own creation and they get another individual willing to make compromises over the over all structure which will be acceptable for both plots/creations.

@Dedonus@Dedonus@fdeviant Well I'll voice my thoughts even though I should be working. Meta Humans might be a blanket term but it shouldn't be used as such. Everyone gets their powers from something so there will be genetic strains which have nothing in common. For example.

Hydro and Arachne. Both are Meta Humans. But the cure for the Meta Bomb should only work on one of them. Since Hydro mutated from another source.

Metas are made and could still have residual DNA of their Human selves. Unlike Mutants who were born and have long discarded any old DNA. I admit I have no idea how DNA works in Real Life but this isn't a Real Life Science. Not when powers are involved. For the sake of clarifying things let's say that the Meta Bomb and it's cure doesn't work on Mutants or those who have been Metas for some years now.

Because they no longer possess the DNA of their old normal selves and have permanently become something more. While those recently changed have a timer before their change is permanent. This is just my thoughts on the matter and might explain why those with powers won't be affected by the Meta Bombs since they are no longer strictly Human.

I think we need to get away from the "natural" vs "artificial" distinction. One big problem is that we literally don't have any characters (at least ones that have been accepted) that received their powers "naturally". So, let's go through them, shall we?

Heroes
Arachne - powers granted by formula
Bast - powers induced by magic
Cross - none (as far as I know)
Hydro - powers granted by accident with water
Icarus - powers granted from alien tech/symbiotic relationship
Icon - alien / human hybrid
Iron Knight - none / power suit
Lyger - powers granted by blood transfusion with metagene
The Mage - magic powers
Myth - powers granted from magical weapon
Pendragon - none / supernatural weapons
Raptor - powers granted by formula
Riley - alien / human hybrid
Sigil - alien
Theodore Roosevelt - none
Thunderbolt and Boom - "miracle"
Wasp - powers granted by formula
The Wolf - magic powers

Walking the Line
DeathDealer - none
Equilibrium - maybe naturally born ability
Hecate - supernatural character
Polemos - enhanced by "super soldier" formula
Racheli - alien symbiotic relationship
Silence - maybe naturally born ability
War-Pulse - abilities granted by scientific project
White Witch - magic powers

Villains
The Cowl - none (as far as I know)
The Forsaken - genetically altered
Lord Khonsu - "god"-granted abilities
The Red Reaper - inherited metahuman status
Umbraxis - Alien

From the list in the OP, there are three characters that probably would be considered having "natural" abilities. However, even being born with the powers can be problematic. Spider-Man, according to your guys' definition, would be a metahuman because his powers were not "natural". However, would you consider his daughter (either Mayday in MC2 or Anna in Renew Your Vows) a mutant or a metahuman (or mutate in Marvel terminology)? Mayday/Anna were born with their powers, bu they inherited their powers from their father, who did not receive his powers naturally. So would she be a mutant or a metahuman?

This line of thinking could even be taken further. So, mutants are supposed to be created by evolution. But what if the first mutants were really just humans that have been altered by either aliens (as the mainstream Marvel mutants are) or by other humans (as the Ultimate Universe mutants were). This even expands to the Inhumans, who were experiments by the Kree. Where is the line drawn? Sure, after several generations, the powers would be "natural" because nothing beyond dominant genes would cause them, but that gene was created artificially to begin with.

Therefore, I think that a better schema would be the source of the powers. Are they hybrids? Are the powers the result of a gene(s)? Are the powers magically induced?

Lyger - powers granted by blood transfusion with metagene

NSM, if I recall right from the skype conversation, mentioned that the blood transfusion activated Lyger's own natural one. Like a jump start.

<Snipped quote>

NSM, if I recall right from the skype conversation, mentioned that the blood transfusion activated Lyger's own natural one. Like a jump start.

I took that from his character sheet. However, since he is not my character, I cannot be the judge of it.

Little did anyone know that the blood he received contained the meta gene, and when the blood mixed with his own, he began to develop special abilities of his own