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Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Kouki
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he's so white though


So's Elektra...and Psylocke...and Daredevil...and Iron Fist if you count him as a ninja...wait a minute, how many monks/ninja's are actually of Asian decent. I mean, I know there a many it just feels like the best known aren't actually Asian.

Like, Mystique is part of the hand and so's Sabertooth, Sabertooth!? Really?

How does that even happen?

If that's not weird enough, he's leading the Japanese Branch, what the hell?

Oh, and Clint Barton when he was Ronin.

Also, posted!

@ChicogalDude, I just realized the first two to post are neighbors!
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Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Dethran
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@Winter Kitten What were you saying about how many classes we should be signed up for? I'm having trouble tracking down the post where you mentioned it...

(Also, what's the actual difference between Power Management and Advanced Power Control? Like, which one would Erik sign up for to work on his spellcrafting abilities to elevate it above the level of minor cantrips?)
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Winter Kitten
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@Dethran

2-4 General classes. And 4-6 SHIELD courses.

Power Management is a beginner's class for those individuals who have powers but lack control over them. It's a class to train and hone their use in order for their power to grow in a controlled environment, presumably under their control.

Advanced Power Control is taking the basics and pushing them even further. Kinda just skipping the Intermediate entirely and just pushing yourself past your limit. It's supposed to be a damn tough course.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by SheriffLlama
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Since we have a rather special canon, is Peter Parker known as Spiderman? Not sure if we're pre/post Civil War (Heck, or if we're going off comic CW or MCU lol help)
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by FantasyChic
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I posted. Everyone gaze in amazement at my ability to push buttons with letters on them and form words and sentences. Thank you
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Apokalipse
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<Snipped quote by Apokalipse>

So's Elektra...and Psylocke...and Daredevil...and Iron Fist if you count him as a ninja...wait a minute, how many monks/ninja's are actually of Asian decent. I mean, I know there a many it just feels like the best known aren't actually Asian.

Like, Mystique is part of the hand and so's Sabertooth, Sabertooth!? Really?

How does that even happen?

If that's not weird enough, he's leading the Japanese Branch, what the hell?

Oh, and Clint Barton when he was Ronin.

Also, posted!

@ChicogalDude, I just realized the first two to post are neighbors!


yeah and marvel is whitewashy af. i refuse to watch doctor strange because of the cast - especially since they're denying asian actors, which we need more of in hollywood, a chance.!.!.!.!

Since we have a rather special canon, is Peter Parker known as Spiderman? Not sure if we're pre/post Civil War (Heck, or if we're going off comic CW or MCU lol help)


im p sure its years after civil war but dont take my word for it ^_^
Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Kouki
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Since we have a rather special canon, is Peter Parker known as Spiderman? Not sure if we're pre/post Civil War (Heck, or if we're going off comic CW or MCU lol help)


Based off of talks with Mr. Kitten, we're using a modified version of MCU taking place a few years in the future. Also based off these talks I'm pretty sure we're ignoring the X-men movies because WHY!? WHY ANY OF THIS!? NOTHING IN THIS GENRE MAKES SENSE ANYMORE!!!!

@ApokalipseI just wanted a picture of an aloof looking guy, this is what came up. Plus, he looks hot when I imagine him in his S.H.I.E.L.D/Ninja uniform.

But yeah, white washing is bad like what they did for that movie about Jesus or any movie that takes place in Egypt because AUSTRALIANS ARE NOT THE SAME AS EGYPTIANS YOU SONS OF BITCHES!!!
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by FantasyChic
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Mr. Kitten is the name of someone I wanna get to know a bit better, but not too much cuz...you know.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by NarcissisticPotato
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My opinion probably won't be fairly popular on so-called "white-washing" but I find everything a tad hypocritical. My view on it is that when they cast for a certain movie, they should choose the actor/actress who performed best in the role. In fact, if they chose not to do that and hired, say, an Asian who was not the best actor, then you're already discriminating due to someone's race and giving them unfair advantages. I find the number one way to not discriminate is to treat someone like everyone else. Not like a special snowflake that needs extra privileges.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by SheriffLlama
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@NarcissisticPotato Very well said
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Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Apokalipse
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My opinion probably won't be fairly popular on so-called "white-washing" but I find everything a tad hypocritical. My view on it is that when they cast for a certain movie, they should choose the actor/actress who performed best in the role. In fact, if they chose not to do that and hired, say, an Asian who was not the best actor, then you're already discriminating due to someone's race and giving them unfair advantages. I find the number one way to not discriminate is to treat someone like everyone else. Not like a special snowflake that needs extra privileges.


I disagree but it's all good. See, my main problem is that there are so many good actors of color but they don't have the chance to audition well because most white actors get the job because they have some fame to their name and it's good for marketing.

I mean, there are more East Asian people in the world versus white people and there is a semi-equal amount of Asian-Americans as well as Anglo-Saxon americans and im supposed to think that Benedict Cumberbatch Tilda Swinton was the best option? It is implausible to even think that there isn't an Asian-American better suited for the role that would allow for a good movie and an accurate representation.

EDIT: for some reason, i got mixed up with the ancient one but whatever. it still stands.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by NarcissisticPotato
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<Snipped quote by NarcissisticPotato>

I disagree but it's all good. See, my main problem is that there are so many good actors of color but they don't have the chance to audition well because most white actors get the job because they have some fame to their name and it's good for marketing.

I mean, there are more East Asian people in the world versus white people and there is a semi-equal amount of Asian-Americans as well as Anglo-Saxon americans and im supposed to think that Benedict Cumberbatch Tilda Swinton was the best option? It is implausible to even think that there isn't an Asian-American better suited for the role that would allow for a good movie and an accurate representation.

EDIT: for some reason, i got mixed up with the ancient one but whatever. it still stands.


I disagree with your disagreement which is also all good! :3 Obviously actors with some fame to their name have said fame for a reason and that reason is typically that they're good actors. Also I think it's quite the contrary nowadays. If we look at recent blockbusters such as Star Wars which featured a young black male and a young female and was highly acclaimed because of that, it's clear that being progressive is more "hip" than being regressive. I feel dead inside for using "hip".

If we look at the case of Doctor Strange in particular, I think Marvel were carefully trying to dance over the minefield that is the sensitivies of our generation and somehow managed to walk straight into a pole. The Ancient One, as I remember, was a male. They changed him to a her in an attempt to be progressive and it backfired on them anyways. I would celebrate that as a success in an industry that women were struggling in for a very long time and now a woman has as large a role as a man does in a movie that was based on a comic with little to no female main characters. Staying with the Ancient One, I'm pretty sure they mentioned that the Ancient One isn't a single character but like a title that is passed on and in this instance, it's a celtic woman that holds the title.

Plus, while we're on the topic, I do agree with you that there are indeed a great number of Eastern Asians in the world. Or more specifically, there are a great number of Chinese people in the world. Over a billion, I do believe. Now, this is where it's kinda a shit storm that I don't agree with but it's an unfortunate reality. Ok, so let's say that Marvel does decide to appease the ravenous audience of forward-thinking Westerners and has a Tibetan play the Ancient One. You don't cast a Tibetan to play a Tibetan character? They still will more than likely have a problem. But let's skip this and assume that they did. Suddenly, boom, you lose the entire population of China viewing your movie after the Chinese government ban it for showing a person from a country they don't believe even exists. Marvel aren't doing that because they will lose a lot of money.

Their alternative, which they thought would work, was to cast a woman in the roll. That would appease the SJWs and it would avoid any political scandals; or it was meant to.

This is not mentioning the fact that even if they did cast the Ancient One as an old Asian man imparting his great knowledge on a young and naive student, they would just be accused of putting in offensive Asian stereotypes.

P.S. This isn't meant to offend - just my personal opinion on the matter! C:
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by FantasyChic
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Not that this has anything to do with the discussion going on in this chat (it might though which is why I will bring it up) but no matter what one does, someone will find the need to complain about it regardless. It is happening a lot more frequently nowadays and the amount of sensitivity people show is, quite frankly, worrying.

I can't say I know what Marvel's motives are in terms of all of this, but I like both of your points. What I raise is, no matter what they do, someone will voice their concern, people will latch on to it, and it will be a driving force for some to get their opinions heard.

The first example that came to my mind wasn't about whitewashing, but instead it was about how the new Thor is a female. I remember first hearing about that. As a female myself, my first reaction was "oh wow, cool!" because a popular character just got gender swapped (I know the Thor himself didn't swap genders, but hear me out), but I also remember hearing the backlash they got for doing so. Some liked it, others didn't. You can't please everyone.

So yeah, both your arguments sound logical. Someone isn't going to take kindly to it regardless, especially something as widely recognized as the comic book genre and "geek/nerd" stuff.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Apokalipse
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<Snipped quote by Apokalipse>

I disagree with your disagreement which is also all good! :3 Obviously actors with some fame to their name have said fame for a reason and that reason is typically that they're good actors. Also I think it's quite the contrary nowadays. If we look at recent blockbusters such as Star Wars which featured a young black male and a young female and was highly acclaimed because of that, it's clear that being progressive is more "hip" than being regressive. I feel dead inside for using "hip".

If we look at the case of Doctor Strange in particular, I think Marvel were carefully trying to dance over the minefield that is the sensitivies of our generation and somehow managed to walk straight into a pole. The Ancient One, as I remember, was a male. They changed him to a her in an attempt to be progressive and it backfired on them anyways. I would celebrate that as a success in an industry that women were struggling in for a very long time and now a woman has as large a role as a man does in a movie that was based on a comic with little to no female main characters. Staying with the Ancient One, I'm pretty sure they mentioned that the Ancient One isn't a single character but like a title that is passed on and in this instance, it's a celtic woman that holds the title.

Plus, while we're on the topic, I do agree with you that there are indeed a great number of Eastern Asians in the world. Or more specifically, there are a great number of Chinese people in the world. Over a billion, I do believe. Now, this is where it's kinda a shit storm that I don't agree with but it's an unfortunate reality. Ok, so let's say that Marvel does decide to appease the ravenous audience of forward-thinking Westerners and has a Tibetan play the Ancient One. You don't cast a Tibetan to play a Tibetan character? They still will more than likely have a problem. But let's skip this and assume that they did. Suddenly, boom, you lose the entire population of China viewing your movie after the Chinese government ban it for showing a person from a country they don't believe even exists. Marvel aren't doing that because they will lose a lot of money.

Their alternative, which they thought would work, was to cast a woman in the roll. That would appease the SJWs and it would avoid any political scandals; or it was meant to.

This is not mentioning the fact that even if they did cast the Ancient One as an old Asian man imparting his great knowledge on a young and naive student, they would just be accused of putting in offensive Asian stereotypes.

P.S. This isn't meant to offend - just my personal opinion on the matter! C:


I'm white so I don't understand what it feels like to have my race underrepresented, but because I have many Asian friends (there are a lot of Asians at my school due to a Korean company being set up nearby) I have heard their sides and they are all mad about it. Because I'm white, I will never understand what it's like to be underrepresented in media, but I acknowledge that it is happening and it is a problem because it's really disheartening when I see my asian friends (or black or Hispanic friends, but my Asian friends especially because they are probably the most U represented minority's in America) upset over something like this. I'm not offended by whitewashing culture because I am white, but I try to stand by the people who this affects. If the vast majority of Asian-Americans don't like whitewashing, but those who are not Asian-American and do not know what it's like to have their culture whitewashed defend such an action, who has more authority over the subject? Obviously the party that is affected by it.

Not that this has anything to do with the discussion going on in this chat (it might though which is why I will bring it up) but no matter what one does, someone will find the need to complain about it regardless. It is happening a lot more frequently nowadays and the amount of sensitivity people show is, quite frankly, worrying.

I can't say I know what Marvel's motives are in terms of all of this, but I like both of your points. What I raise is, no matter what they do, someone will voice their concern, people will latch on to it, and it will be a driving force for some to get their opinions heard.

The first example that came to my mind wasn't about whitewashing, but instead it was about how the new Thor is a female. I remember first hearing about that. As a female myself, my first reaction was "oh wow, cool!" because a popular character just got gender swapped (I know the Thor himself didn't swap genders, but hear me out), but I also remember hearing the backlash they got for doing so. Some liked it, others didn't. You can't please everyone.

So yeah, both your arguments sound logical. Someone isn't going to take kindly to it regardless, especially something as widely recognized as the comic book genre and "geek/nerd" stuff.


While I agree that everything is gonna get backlash in some way, it goes back to who is most affected by it. The people who's culture is being appropriated and misrepresented? Or the small victory of having a female character though it's less relevant than the other issue at hand and wouldn't actually offend anyone if The Ancient One was male? Either way, it wouldn't have been hard to have a female Asian actress either.

Sorry, I hope none of you guys feel like I'm attacking or anything like that, I'm just a very passionate person who likes debates >.< either way, we should just call it a draw, yeah?
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by NarcissisticPotato
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@Apokalipse

A draw sounds good. But you better watch out, Apoka. Next time, I might just have to go full Potato.



You've been warned!
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by knighthawk
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@FantasyChic


Something to remember, almost all of the comics were first done by white men. We have gotten better, but not by much.

To me: race, gender, or orientation have nothing to do with being a superhero. Once you add superpowers, the rest is just skin to be added to the character.
ON ONE HAND
We don't need 'black' superheroes, if someone is powered by the beasts of Africa, they need to be a veterinarian. rage gender and sexuality need not apply.
Master of all martial arts? Great, from kung-fu to capoeria, martial arts span the globe, race and gender do not matter when training your body.
Sorcerer supreme. Its magic, it doesn't matter if its a Jamaican sorcerer or Japanese. Unless there is a specific reason for the magic to have a limitation on who it can effect, these things do not matter.

ON THE OTHER HAND
I understand the need to connect to the readers, black people want a black superhero. Gay people want a gay superhero, Women want female superheroes. But I think the trick is to not trope yourself into only liking THAT kind of superhero. They want someone to relate to, but it should be to the exclusion of others.

I know I am shooting myself with what I might say next. I understand.
I like static shock cartoon show, I LOVED the episode where he went to Africa to fight with Anasanzi. But I don't like the 'urban thug struggle' aspect of the cartoon. "I got superpowers, I'm gonna knock over a gas station and buy gold chains." It's a lot like fresh prince of bellair, I liked carlton and the dad, not because they were 'rich-white' blackfolk, but because they were intelligent people who used the system available to better their lives and the lives of those around them. I belive there was even an episode where carlton got dropped in on a gang and by the time they get back, he's doubling or tripling their profits.
Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Winter Kitten
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My opinion: if you're making a story and you intentional name drop a race or mention their skin color and complexion, it goes without saying that you should probably stick to that. If you write a script and intentionally market the main character as Chinese, you look for a good Asian Actor to play that role. Look at Daisy Johnson, for example, she's half-Chinese, they say so in the lore. Her mother was Chinese, her father's white. It makes absolutely no sense to cast a blonde haired, white girl for that part, no matter how good she is at acting. Because when you happen to have the episode where she does in fact meet her mother and father and they not only both have brown hair, her mother's visibly full Chinese, and her father's got brown eyes, people are going to question why the fuck this half-Chinese girl has a non-mongoloid facial structure, blonde af hair, and blue eyes.

Regardless, Danny Rand - the Iron Fist - is in fact white. It makes sense to cast a white actor for him. It makes sense to cast whoever acts well for him. I do agree with Knighthawk, though: race, sexuality, gender, they don't matter in the long run. What matters is that the character is good. What I'm looking for, as a gay man, is to be represented by a gay character that isn't defined by his homosexuality. Yet, his homosexuality still matters to me, because I can then point at that particular character and well and truly say that they're a good representation of who I am. That they aren't in a flimsy, nonsense romance that doesn't make sense but to show off that 'oh, this character is gay, so here's a reminder.' I want these things to feel and be organic, not something to tote around like a flag and say, "look at us being so inclusive!" because that is definitely, definitely pandering to a specific audience for views and ratings because if you do wave around the gay flag or the black flag, or any kind of minority flag, you're guaranteed to get views because we people are very much desperate for representation in the media.

That being said, we as a society really need to quash this whole 'Cis-het White Male' default that's plagued the media since white men declared women to be unsuited for the film industry despite building its foundation from the ground up. And as authors. And as pretty much anything. 'Cause if you look back, a lot of shit we have today is because of brilliant female minds. People like Ada Lovelace, Mary Shelley, Marie Curie, etc, built the foundation for a shit ton of things from literature to science to the media itself. We owe them that much.

(Also, it's years after Civil War; there's still a rift between Cap and Tony; Peter's Tony's assistant, so long as Tony keeps his identity a secret. He calls it blackmailing as a joke, but they both know even if Peter refused, Tony wouldn't do shit.)
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by FantasyChic
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Yeah go women!!
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Kouki
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an accurate representation.


All I want.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Apokalipse
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So, I'm planning for a guy post sometime this weekend but I still have to do a couple of things first~, but yeah.
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