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*POSITIVE* LGBT++ hangout, anybody? *CIS/STRAIGHT WELCOME TOO* :D Page 11

Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Delzmore
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Delzmore I am Legend

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SO...is there cake here?
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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Dolerman Chrysalis Form

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There was exploration in 10, and towns.

Auron was not bland by any stretch of the imagination.
Hidden 8 yrs ago → 8 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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Fabricant451 Queen of Hearts

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There was exploration in 10, and towns.

Auron was not bland by any stretch of the imagination.


"Exploration" in 10 meaning "walk the straight path through every area." Pulse has more exploration than the entirety of 10. If it wasn't for the stupid cloisters breaking up the monotony, 10 would literally be a straight line from point Besad to point Zanarkand. "Towns" is the pettiest complaint from people that can't think of anything legitimate. You spend just as much time in the towns you go through in the other game as you do any given town in 10.

Auron is one character amidst a cast of bland characters with bland presentation and bland personalities. The better game gives six characters development, growth, and actual character. Auron is the stoic 'badass' who only gets seen as the 'best' character because he's the only one that isn't a fucking idiot. "Oh he's a ghost such character"
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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Lightning is also 'stoic badass' but I'm guessing she is the exception to the rule?

Try and get all of the aeon summons in 10 by walking in a straight line. Try and find and/or complete any sidequests in 10 by walking in straight line. Try playing blitzball in 10 by walking in a straightline.

I suppose in 13 the sidequests are.....oh wait it doesn't have any does it?

Towns arent just about breaking up the travelling, there also the conversations you have with people in each town and the geography and backstory to each location, this is how you flesh out a world, you populate it, you give it houses, you give it living breathing people.

You don't stock it with wingy exposition and shitty flashbacks so the whole game feels like a bad fever dream.

I dont actually think 10s characters are that great, but they at least have auron, 13 has nothing.

Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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Lightning is also 'stoic badass' but I'm guessing she is the exception to the rule?


I mean, sure, if you want to just ignore the whole point of her character arc and think the Lightning at the start is the same as the Lightning at the end, by all means.

Try and get all of the aeon summons in 10 by walking in a straight line.


Oh, you mean the optional summons here I assume? Yojimbo: walk to the end of a cave via straight lines. Magus Sisters: Walk around the straight lines of Gagazet and fight everything. Then just a straight line after a line of fights. Anima: Return to the first straight line path and then walk in a straight line to the statues.

There's a reason I said "if not for the cloisters" but even those are just a bunch of puzzles where you go back and forth in the same two rooms.

Try and find and/or complete any sidequests in 10 by walking in straight line.


Well when most of your side quests are "fight monsters" or "press 'x' to do thing" a straight line is just as tedious.

Try playing blitzball in 10 by walking in a straightline.


Run down the middle, Jecht Shot, hide behind the goal. That's pretty much a straight line.

I suppose in 13 the sidequests are.....oh wait it doesn't have any does it?


If you ignore the C'ieth stones then I suppose you could say that.

Towns arent just about breaking up the travelling, there also the conversations you have with people in each town and the geography and backstory to each location, this is how you flesh out a world, you populate it, you give it houses, you give it living breathing people.

You don't stock it with wingy exposition and shitty flashbacks so the whole game feels like a bad fever dream.


Spira is fleshed out by your party members giving ham fisted expository dialog. Let's stop acting like 10 has some amazing world. Cocoon and Pulse are fleshed out just as much as Spira is. Both games are poorly written but so is every Final Fantasy game

I dont actually think 10s characters are that great, but they at least have auron, 13 has nothing.


13 has the entire main cast. It's fine not to like them but all six of them are more developed than the cast of 10. And like 10, the sequels fucked everything anyway.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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@Fabricant451 It seems based on your criticisms of 10 are more just general criticisms of JRPGs in general, puzzles are 'clusters' in pokemon and dragon quest games too. They shouldn't get any special treatment. By the way you don't get ixion by walking in a straight line.

But if you are going to criticise 10 for being a JRPG, fine, I have plenty problems with that genre, but then it really just comes down to characters and story, I dont even like 10 but Auron has much more charm and depth than Hope, Fang, Snow and Lightning put together. Apart from the fact she's a rug muncher I don't see what makes Vanille any less annoying than Rikku. Sahz is OKAY big fish in a very small pond. But I'd still say Lulu and Wakka while somewhat basic are still more entertaining at least in terms of character concepts if nothing else.

What makes 13 shit is that its just as flawed as every other final fantasy game but its topped off with a terrible cast, awful pacing and generally less to do. If you dont like sidequests, towns or puzzles, then why the hell would you play a JRPG in the first place?
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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@Fabricant451 It seems based on your criticisms of 10 are more just general criticisms of JRPGs in general.


Could be.

Could not be.

Could be that I like JRPGs.

Could be that JRPGs are constantly disappointing for reasons similar to this.

Could be.

But if you are going to criticise 10 for being a JRPG, fine, I have plenty problems with that genre, but then it really just comes down to characters and story, I dont even like 10 but Auron has much more charm and depth than Hope, Fang, Snow and Lightning put together.


See I disagree. I didn't find Auron particularly charming whereas the triangle of characters that was Snow, Lightning, and Hope had more depth in their interactions and growth than most casts of any given Final Fantasy. 13 is much more 'introspective and character problems' rather than 'world threatening problems'. Fang is probably the weakest of the bunch, though, so 5 out of 6 ain't bad.

Apart from the fact she's a rug muncher I don't see what makes Vanille any less annoying than Rikku.


Vanille is way more annoying than Rikku. Vanille is literally the worst because all of the game is her fault. But she's still a good character.

Sahz is OKAY big fish in a very small pond. But I'd still say Lulu and Wakka while somewhat basic are still more entertaining at least in terms of character concepts if nothing else.


And that's fine. Wakka is a simple man and Lulu's entire design makes no sense but it's Nomura so who cares. I didn't particularly care for Wakka or Lulu whereas I at least gave a shit about the conflicts of the 13 cast. Wakka's the Sazh of 10. Except Sazh is less racist and also more racist.

What makes 13 shit is that its just as flawed as every other final fantasy game but its topped off with a terrible cast, awful pacing and generally less to do. If you dont like sidequests, towns or puzzles, then why the hell would you play a JRPG in the first place?


I like the cast and the story of 13. I like the story up until it becomes "save the world" anyway because it was trying something new in regards to the conflict and then it went down the drain once friendship became a thing again. Puzzles and towns do not a great JRPG make and I'll never understand why the lack of towns is seen as such a negative. People like 13-2 more for some reason that makes no sense and that has fuckin no towns either. I got into JRPGs when I was a child because I was stupid and thought "man these stories and characters are real great" and it's only as I got older and more into thinking critically about video games and other things that I realized how silly I was.

The reason I play JRPGs isn't for the puzzles or the towns or sidequests (unless those sidequests have rewards that are meaningful and even then I don't focus on them). Nowadays I don't really PLAY JRPGs because the majority of them are garbage and not aimed at people like me. But when I do play a JRPG it is either for the combat or it's for the characters/story. Every so often there's a JRPG where the characters aren't the same archetypes the genre has come to rely upon and that's great. But in the market that's oversaturated with the king of generic Tales series and the Idea Factory and Gust games, I've not genuinely enjoyed a JRPG in years. I like FF13. I have and will continue to defend FF13. I wrote a god damn essay on why I like FF13. But FF13 is not a good game. I doubt FF15 is going to be good but have I already ordered the special edition? Yes I have. Because I make bad choices in life and because I want to enjoy a JRPG again at some point.

It's why I like the game Nier so much. It's a deconstruction of Japanese role playing games while also having some of the best character interactions the genre has had.

Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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I think you enjoy complaining about games more than you enjoy playing them *cough* bethesda *cough*. But whatever the reasons you like 13 are extremely subjective to you, so I cant argue your taste in story telling. But I like pokemon and dragon quest and I don't mind ham fisted exposition if the world thats being crammed down my throat is charming enough. But I'd rather play magic the gathering. 13-2 kept the one good thing about 13 (the battle system) and gave you essentially one big world as an extended side quest to collect shit and battle a lot. The characters were nearly as bad as 13 and the story line was nonsensical. But I played it as glorified bit of DLC as apposed to a full story experience and I had fun with it.

Nier was alright, didn't get extremely far in it, interesting enough but the battle system was crap.

And yes I think kingdom hearts have awful AWFUL battle systems I'd play 13 a million times before trying to sit through kingdom hearts 1 again.
Hidden 8 yrs ago → 8 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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I think you enjoy complaining about games more than you enjoy playing them *cough* bethesda *cough*.


This is just untrue. I enjoy playing games if the games are good. Bethesda games have all this potential and they constantly fuck it up a different way every time. There's stuff in their games that I can understand why people get way into them, but I haven't genuinely liked a Bethesda developed game in a real long time.

I don't 'complain' about games or even movies (which is what I USED to get all "you hate everything" from people). I critique them. It's not like I go into a game or movie or anything with the mindset of "Ugh this is going to be terrible". Just because I 'complain' about something doesn't mean I don't like it. Sometimes I complain the most about the things I enjoy the most. I've never complained about or criticized a game I haven't played because that's ridiculous and people that do that are bad people.

Nier was alright, didn't get extremely far in it, interesting enough but the battle system was crap.


Oh man then you haven't even seen the parts that are downright amazing. Nier is a game that goes. And considering it's an indirect sequel to one of the worst games that I fucking love that's saying something.

And yes I think kingdom hearts have awful AWFUL battle systems I'd play 13 a million times before trying to sit through kingdom hearts 1 again.


Kingdom Hearts is this weird series where the battle system got progressively better but the plot and everything else got progressively worse until now we're at this part where Kingdom Hearts 3 was actually Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep in terms of actual god damn narrative importance and Kingdom Hearts 3D is KH 4. Kingdom Hearts is so far up its own ass at this point that I can't imagine anyone, even fans of the series, defending it for anything other than its combat.

Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by thebadman7824
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thebadman7824 A Truly Cruel Dude

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*cough*...Play KOTOR...*cough*



Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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And then play KOTOR 2 because it is a better game
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by thebadman7824
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thebadman7824 A Truly Cruel Dude

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S..somebody else likes KOTOR II?!?!

Seriously though, Kreia, the Handmaiden, and Atton were some of the best characters to spring Obsidian Entertainment brain trust. Now if only they could get around to actually finishing the games they make.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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S..somebody else likes KOTOR II?!?!

Seriously though, Kreia, the Handmaiden, and Atton were some of the best characters to spring Obsidian Entertainment brain trust. Now if only they could get around to actually finishing the games they make.


Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by thebadman7824
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thebadman7824 A Truly Cruel Dude

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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Rica
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Rica The Gayest

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-awkwardly looks at her mixed pile of games people think are great and games people think are horrid and loves them all-

I guess I'm just garbage 8D
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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Fabricant451 Queen of Hearts

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It's okay Ricachu, we're all garbage and that's okay
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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POOHEAD189 The Abmin

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And then play KOTOR 2 because it is a better game


S..somebody else likes KOTOR II?!?!

Seriously though, Kreia, the Handmaiden, and Atton were some of the best characters to spring Obsidian Entertainment brain trust. Now if only they could get around to actually finishing the games they make.

Wait wait wait, people don't like KOTOR II? What would be their complaints?
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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Fabricant451 Queen of Hearts

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<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

<Snipped quote by thebadman7824>
Wait wait wait, people don't like KOTOR II? What would be their complaints?


"Unfinished game!"

"Boring start!"

"Ur not Mary Sue Revan!"

"We don't understand grey moralities and the entire point of Kreia's character goes over our head we need our generic BioWare story of KOTOR because we don't have to thinkkkkkkkk"
1x Like Like
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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@Fabricant451Well, I don't think it's better than KOTOR 1, but I think it's got some strengths that the first doesn't and I guess I have heard a few complaints like that.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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Fabricant451 Queen of Hearts

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As someone that does not like Star Wars (but is still a fan of Star Wars), KOTOR 2 was a breath of fresh air because it was written by a guy who, in addition to being a great games writer, also doesn't like Star Wars. KOTOR 2 is essentially a take down of the stupid nature of the Force and it's 'good and bad' thing and it is wonderful. KOTOR 2 is a hell of a game and Kreia is bae.
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