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Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Slamurai
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This is getting out of hand; people on coastlines should be able to have navies if they desire; if not, they don't have to. Nobody's forcing "extra work" on anyone.

If the RP has no mechanic system, and we're just writing out battles as narratives, in a story format, then navies are no big deal. You just write them in. Just because they aren't "planned for" doesn't mean anything is actually stopping them from being in the RP. We're writing a story, not playing a war game with clearly-defined pieces. Dwarves have gyrocopters; now, not everyone "plans for" aerial combat, but the opportunity is there.

I joined for a RP with Warhammer-inspired themes and military focus, not Warhammer Fantasy Battles with text replacing miniatures. Why restrict ourselves to the limitations of a physical game when we have the freedom as writers to add much more with words?
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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The main reason why I'm saying no to ships is that I'd rather not create extra work for people who actually have completed or semi-completed NSs. If you couldn't tell, Total War Warhammer and the WFB Army Tabletop are the major inspirations behind this RP, not Man o War.
First off, as you said there are no game mechanics here so whether it follows WFB or MoW doesn't matter. They are both part of the same Warhammer setting.

Second, like I said, you don't create extra work for anyone. Only for those who are willing. It starts with Player X and Y talking about how cool a naval engagement would be and then both of them coming up with units to fight it out. If one side doesn't want naval battle then there won't be. Simple as that.
Seriously, most players didn't even change their map claim so why would you think they'd take pains to add new units? Even if you'd introduce new naval ship creation guide no already "complete" NS would be likely to take effort in creating them...unless they are interested.

Basically your argument to deny naval ships is founded on false beliefs. You shouldn't need to worry of them, IMO.
But well, you're the GM. I am just sharing my thoughts with you. The least I want is to turn this into a fight.

In my eyes, having ships doesn't benefit the whole as right there are only two people in the entire RP of a dozen plus who really want it. Am I wrong for putting the needs of the many before the needs of the few?
This is how every oppressive government is formed. Yes, not listening to individual requests so long it doesn't hurt balance or effect other players too much, is a bad approach from GMs. And as I explained your fear of allowing naval battles thankfully has no grounds. Your goat can eat the cabbage yet also keep it, if I should use this twist of proverb as a metaphor here.

Even if there are others who wish to have ships they have yet to speak up so maybe I am wrong in the numbers but for now I am not. Its not that I'm against people being creative its that what you're pushing for isn't exactly whats consistent with most other people and their NS, needs of the many over that of the few and all.
Consistency is already the least which this NRP has. We have early medieval tech armies marching up against anachronistically dressed (armored) 19th century forces or even beyond. We have field cannons with explosive shells and riflemen as Tier 3 units while another army only has ballistas and crossbowmen at the same level.
Do you think a few players having warships while others don't bother adding them is going to upset any kind of balance here?
I don't see it.

Also, don't lecture me on how to be a "good GM", that's subjective and I already know I'm a fairly shit GM which is another reason why I'm honestly surprised this has gotten as far as it has.
Luck is also an attribute. You should treasure it.
The first and most important attribute for GMs in my opinion to be active and attentive to the players. And that's something practically everything with time can do.

But yeah, I am afraid lecturing is a bad habit of mine and independent of language barrier.

I'm trying to keep everything in order here and not have to extend the NS skeleton to add ships so you can have bathtub wars while everyone else has something else they have to fill out which they may not be interested in. I'm not going to pander to a few people's "creative freedom" while giving everyone else additional work. Am I doing something wrong here? No doubt I am doing something wrong in some people's eyes but again this is my RP at the end of the day. You have no obligation to be in it if you find my GMing style to be against your wishes.
I am trying to help while also indeed pushing my dirty-dirty agenda. Like all people do. I try to have fun with everyone but at the same time I feel flabbergasted with your overreaction which, along with this bad habit of lecturing, is why I am having this, say, argument with you.
If I am bothering you too much I just stop. The least I want to ruin the fun for others.
Still, given my above points I would be indeed glad if you could at least consider my suggestion.

Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by ClocktowerEchos
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@Aristo@Willy Vereb Instead of turning this into an all out bitchfest and properly souring everyone's moods and cluttering up the OOC with this, how about the both of you just first put up a NS and add your own navy section under it. You gents seem to be passionate people, I'm sure you two can find some way of making your own bits for the NS can't you?

Also, on a completely unrelated note, ever heard the term that the GM has complete control over their RP at the end of the day?

Proceed as you wish.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Slamurai
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@Aristo@Willy Vereb ... put up a NS and add your own navy section under it.
Proceed as you wish.


There, that wasn't so hard. It shouldn't have had to be something to fight for; those who want to add their own can, those that don't don't have to. Nobody's undermining anyone else's time or effort. Thanks for the addition.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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@Aristo@Willy Vereb Instead of turning this into an all out bitchfest and properly souring everyone's moods
Um, you better read my post a second time then.
Maybe when you calmed down and have the peace of mind to not take a belligerent stance.
If people can't even speak to you that's a problem on any level. Be it a mere player or the game master.

...and now I probably added more fuel to your fires even though I wrote my previous post with the exact opposite intent.
Good going, willy.

Ekhm, the point is we aren't bitching. We aren't fighting you.
We try to speak with you and the least of our intent is to bully you into something. We want you to see something. And if you only see enmity from this, you obviously see something wrong.

<Snipped quote by ClocktowerEchos>

There, that wasn't so hard. It shouldn't have had to be something to fight for; those who want to add their own can, those that don't don't have to. Nobody's undermining anyone else's time or effort.
That's the whole point indeed!
It isn't like all players are going to add flying machines to their army lists anytime soon. Yet nobody complained on that.

Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by ClocktowerEchos
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<Snipped quote by ClocktowerEchos>Um, you better read my post a second time then.
Maybe when you calmed down and have the peace of mind to not take a belligerent stance.
If people can't even speak to you that's a problem on any level. Be it a mere player or the game master.

...and now I probably added more fuel to your fires even though I wrote my previous post with the exact opposite intent.
Good going, willy.


When I said "not turning this into a bitchfest", I meant more towards me since lets just say that my patience isn't exactly sky high right now for either one of you two. Is its childish and immature? Certainly but calling it that doesn't change anything.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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<Snipped quote by Willy Vereb>

When I said "not turning this into a bitchfest", I meant more towards me since lets just say that my patience isn't exactly sky high right now for either one of you two. Is its childish and immature? Certainly but calling it that doesn't change anything.
That's what my last line was for. It's like poking the beast. Bad idea all around.
Anyways, I put an addendum to it. You may read it and hopefully it helps soothing the tempers.

Also thank you for at least having a bit patience to grant us this chance.
I don't know how warship tiers add up with regular units but the two rarely ever interact to begin with.
At worst instead of tier we rate them at "naval tier" just to avoid confusion.
Generally it's something two players can settle simply and peacefully.

Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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Flying machines can be prevalent in a land based game of strategy and warfare, and they also aren't game changers. A Dwarf in a gyrocopter can be killed by a volley of arrows, or a cannon, or a catapult, or yes indeed, a Griffon rider. Ships however, need water, and no one but you two will be using them. Which was the point. Clock began this game with a specific set of standards in mind, and people deviating from that, no matter how pointless, can change how people view the game, whether or not they need to add anything to their sheet.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Slamurai
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@RisenDead
This is a very small issue, but I noticed on the updated map, my territory is labeled Astaran. Would you mind changing it to either "The Commonwealth" or Korczyn-Astarac? Since the state is actually both nations.

Thanks for your work on the map; labels are infinitely more useful than just colors!
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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D'oh! All this arguing yet I failed to ask the major question.
@Lauder, do you even want us to have naval battles?
I can easily see Orruk naval contraptions with flaming shots fighting Treasure Ship style vessels. Or anything else you can imagine.
How about you?
Given that you are the only player I can have naval battles for now this could matter a ton, actually.
Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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Flying machines can be prevalent in a land based game of strategy and warfare, and they also aren't game changers. A Dwarf in a gyrocopter can be killed by a volley of arrows, or a cannon, or a catapult, or yes indeed, a Griffon rider. Ships however, need water, and no one but you two will be using them. Which was the point. Clock began this game with a specific set of standards in mind, and people deviating from that, no matter how pointless, can change how people view the game, whether or not they need to add anything to their sheet.
I am not willing to continue this argument clogging up the OOC so I make it brief.
You got it backwards.
Having navy or not won't change how people view this game because naval control is of limited importance.
Having Gyrocopters and other kinds of air units is something every player has to contend with. THAT changes the game. Because you need some counters for sure.
So yeah.
Not going to campaign against allowing air units but the reality is what I explained above.

Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Slamurai
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However, one thing is always present throughout the ages, and that is that Vulpins never look bad or ugly in any way. Whether it be through genetics or sheer luck, there has been no Vulpin that has grown up and not looked pretty damn fine.


I only just read this part
Don't know what to say, other than my Mary-Sue senses are tingling; no disrespect intended.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Temporary
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@Aristo Oh please, that was a last minute thing because the images I have for them all look somewhat good. I thought I might as well justify that and just make EVERYONE look good XD
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Slamurai
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@VocabEven after a pike to the face?

I'm a bit confused as to what the Sangshio really is; I get that it's partially genetic, but the bit about the fleshy organs and what it actually does is fuzzy to me.
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@Aristo Don't even worry about it. It's less genetic as such, spanning back countless thousands of years when the Old Ones were exposed to raw magic and radiation and time stuff. What I can explain is basically - think Tokyo Ghoul. It's basically just like that. I might end up changing that in the future, but for now just go of that and you'll be fine.

Well... A Pike to the face might damage them a... Lot... XD
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Slamurai
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@Vocab
So it is magical?
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Temporary
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@Aristo Yeah, technically. That's why I put it as a Lore, because it's got magical aspects to it.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Lauder
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@Willy Vereb

Meh. I'm okay with doing naval battles, but my Orruks are not an ally inclined, in fact they would just make the equivalent of giant canoes and mount weapons on them and call it "good enough" before slamming it into the enemy shore and deconstruct the entire vessel to use the material again for something else.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by TemplarKnight07
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My rodents, like real-life rats, are fairly adept swimmers, and being mostly underground their need for a navy or even flying corps would be on an impromptu, situational basis above ground on campaign. (The latter not even being a very practical means of being able to make in an impromptu fashion, so don't bet on seeing many flying rodents unless its from a cannon or catapult).
Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by KremeSupreme
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This is the final draft of the Paganist Legion. I downgraded the heroes a bit, and extended a bit of the categories.


@ClocktowerEchos I made the Kingdom the Dark Elves came from be destroyed by Beastmen tribes. Also, theres two races of Beastmen that serve the Dark Elves, either as Mercenaries or Slave, so that should make for some interested interaction.
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