Fuck you, Americans.

To be honest, the voices of reason in this thread are probably correct. It's not the end of the world. The president of the US is not an all-powerful dictator, and certainly for those of us outside of the US, Trump's focus on internal policy may actually, somehow, bode well.

But that's not really the point. Some hysteria about WWIII isn't why people are feeling sick.

The point is that you've collectively decided to put a moronic, selfish, lying, serial sexual abusing, racist, incompetent, populist, and all-round vile man at the head of your country. You've declared that this is the man your country wants to lead it, whose vision of America is one you want to bring to fruition. This is the way you think the world should be.

That is what makes people feel sick. They feel sick that they, as a person, are represented by a disgusting excuse for a human being. Their political voice on the world stage is that of Donald fucking Trump. Donald Trump is how the rest of the world now has to perceive as being representative of American people and American society, because you've pointed at his disgusting behaviour and proudly declared "this is who we are".

That would certainly make me feel sick. It makes me sick on behalf of those US citizens I know who absolutely do not deserve to be viewed in such a way. And it should make any of you who doesn't support Trump's circus shitshow feel sick, too. You deserve better than this.

Sometimes the ideas and principles are above the pure practicality. Saying "oh, it's not so bad, don't be hysterical" is disingenuous. Be upset, be angry that this is the result, that you were left with a choice between two non-candidates.

That's only half the story though, isn't it? Things are bad enough in this country, for enough people, that Donald goddamn Trump was more palatable than four more years of the establishment. Think about that. Did you know that's how bad it was? I didn't. I've been in the CNN bubble like everybody else, and they sure as hell weren't talking about it. 58 million people -- that's a very big number -- are that desperate, and here I thought the biggest issue facing america was the use of public restrooms.

I don't believe in silent majorities. These people were always trying to be heard, and we've been ignoring them so completely that this result is unthinkable. People moved to tears in the Clinton campaign -- you shoulda been crying for these people long ago, and honestly I think you needed your hearts broken.

Granted, now we've got a deplorable in the white house. I mean..... some of that is disingenuous from the same people who cheered for Bill, but putting that aside I don't like this guy, and I'm gonna have to deal with that. We'll get over it if he's good.

/wield fire-extinguisher

Personally? It sent a middle finger to a lot of people I think deserved a middle finger. Well played, Trump.

@Halo two non candidates? The libertarians had a chance this year to obtain state funding and blew it by putting forward Gary 'what is Aleppo' Johnson. Fuck off. This is democracy in action. The majority won. You don't have to be happy with it, but you know, the world doesn't revolve around you, or your ideals and we certainly don't have to give leeway to support that. You can't support democracy when your candidate wins but hate it when someone you don't like wins. That's not democracy, that's a cover up.

The minority does not come before the majority and it never will. I suggest you suck it up and stop being so damn entitled.

Sincerely, a Dutch person that does not wish Hillary 'can't we just drone this guy?' Clinton to start a war with Russia over a no-fly zone in Syria, because he does not want to be drafted to fight Russians.

Actually, I find it more sickening that you feel, just because some people don't like Trump means he should not have been elected. What about those people? Their opinion doesn't fucking matter?

Democracy is fucking dumb, the dumbest system to ever exist, but America proudly has it as their flagship and I hope they realize soon that idiocracy is not the way forward.

1) I will open up my liqueur cabinet
2) I will open a bottle
3) I will be hungover tomorrow and not learn the president elect until friday

I predict this at a p >= 99.9>% accuracy

I was correct by the way
with the exception of i figured it out today

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time..." -Winston Churchill

<Snipped quote by Halo>

That's only half the story though, isn't it? Things are bad enough in this country, for enough people, that Donald goddamn Trump was more palatable than four more years of the establishment. Think about that. Did you know that's how bad it was? I didn't. I've been in the CNN bubble like everybody else, and they sure as hell weren't talking about it. 58 million people -- that's a very big number -- are that desperate, and here I thought the biggest issue facing america was the use of public restrooms.

I don't believe in silent majorities. These people were always trying to be heard, and we've been ignoring them so completely that this result is unthinkable. People moved to tears in the Clinton campaign -- you shoulda been crying for these people long ago, and honestly I think you needed your hearts broken.

Granted, now we've got a deplorable in the white house. I mean..... some of that is disingenuous from the same people who cheered for Bill, but putting that aside I don't like this guy, and I'm gonna have to deal with that. We'll get over it if he's good.

I agree completely with this. Working class are still the most important voting block, and they let the world know last night. The states she lost were exactly the old industrial midwest, and really, they earned that loss by being so flippant about the problems there. Now I don't think Trump's plans will help at all, I think they'll hurt actually, and I'm a bit anxious about my own future, but I totally understand why the electorate chose a candidate who responded to their problems with a bizarre plan over a candidate who was condescending about the idea that they even had problems at all.

You can't support democracy when your candidate wins but hate it when someone you don't like wins. That's not democracy, that's a cover up.

Eh, you can though. People throw their hats down when they lose. No states seceded, nobody is rioting in the streets, Clinton conceded the race; we're doing fine. The losing side lost hard when it expected a win. Venting is inevitable there.

plus Halo is fuckin british so it's not like he has to respect the american electorate anyway

@Vilageidiotx that last point is not a really good one. I find it hypocritical to complain about a candidate when the majority elected them. Hate on them for their policies, but don't fucking hate on them just for winning.

That's retarded.

And yeah, but see, foreign people have no invested interest in the American electorate no matter what, so venting doesn't even vent anything, it just sounds like you're trying to be interesting by showing a faked political awareness.

<Snipped quote by Halo>

That's only half the story though, isn't it? Things are bad enough in this country, for enough people, that Donald goddamn Trump was more palatable than four more years of the establishment. Think about that. Did you know that's how bad it was? I didn't. I've been in the CNN bubble like everybody else, and they sure as hell weren't talking about it. 58 million people -- that's a very big number -- are that desperate, and here I thought the biggest issue facing america was the use of public restrooms.

I don't believe in silent majorities. These people were always trying to be heard, and we've been ignoring them so completely that this result is unthinkable. People moved to tears in the Clinton campaign -- you shoulda been crying for these people long ago, and honestly I think you needed your hearts broken.

Granted, now we've got a deplorable in the white house. I mean..... some of that is disingenuous from the same people who cheered for Bill, but putting that aside I don't like this guy, and I'm gonna have to deal with that. We'll get over it if he's good.

Pretty much this.

It all begs the question - if Donald Trump is so fucking bad and unsuited for president, how the hell could a shrewd politician like Clinton lose in the first place? Maybe, just maybe, the DNC should have chosen Bernie or literally anyone that didn't have so much dirt on them instead.

Secondly, playing the blame game is precisely why this shit is happening. No, people aren't dumb and bigoted for voting Trump, they're just unsatisfied with the current status quo, as are people in the EU. Why do you think Brexit happened? Why are right-winged populist parties gaining traction throughout Western Europe in countries like France, Germany, the Netherlands, Austria and so forth? It's easy to dismiss everyone you don't agree with as a bigot and a racist, but the truth runs much deeper.

The current narrative passed down from our political elite is that the US and its allies are the only bastions of freedom and democracy, everyone else is either a dictator or part of an oligarchy. You don't like TTIP? Well, you're a fucking commie. You don't agree with economic migrants from Afghanistan and Pakistan illegally crossing your country's borders? Shit son, you're Hitler reborn. Think that NATO should focus on the traffickers making millions from the real refugees in the Mediterranean instead of leading an arms race with Russia? Well, its obvious you're sucking Putin's dick.

This "them or us" mentality and fear mongering that's prevalent in the western world plays right into the hands of demagogues, populists and extremists. When even moderate criticism is met with accusations of racism, xenophobia and God knows what else, people are gradually driven into extremes. And instead of tackling the underlying issues our politicians are quick to look for scapegoats - terrorism, Russia, the dumb voters who don't know what's good for them.

That last one in particular is incredibly grating. Let's face it, the average voter is always going to be, well, average; that's the whole point, right? Many of these people don't care about politics and are swayed by whatever's trending at the time - the economic crisis, refugees, TTIP/CETA, heck even fucking Harambe. When you're struggling to make ends meet, you don't really care where the guy you're voting for stands on the political spectrum, as long as he promises to "make things right".

What you're seeing right now in is the shifting of the huge socioeconomic gears that make the world turn. The past 20 years or so have been a period of relative stability and prosperity for the West (I hate using this Cold War era term), but the cracks are starting to show and even normal people like you and me are beginning to see it. The financial crisis of 2008 was a sign of that and since then things have been going steadily downhill. Brexit was a tipping point for the EU, spurred on by the refugee crisis, and Trump's election is a tipping point for the US. As good ol' dialectical materialism teaches "quantitative changes lead to qualitative changes" - look at the last 100 years of our history and you'll see that's a fact.

Lastly, a message to you folks that have been plaguing my social media feeds (and the Guild's status bar) all day - politics is a game of logic. The moment you start getting emotional is the moment some politician starts using that emotion for their own agenda.

@Vilageidiotx that last point is not a really good one. I find it hypocritical to complain about a candidate when the majority elected them. Hate on them for their policies, but don't fucking hate on them just for winning.

That's retarded.

And yeah, but see, foreign people have no invested interest in the American electorate no matter what, so venting doesn't even vent anything, it just sounds like you're trying to be interesting by showing a faked political awareness.

It is a form of hating on their policies though. Liberals aren't sitting here thinking "Oh dear, how horrible we won't get a trophy!" The left is concerned about the policies Trump will inevitably pursue, and since the fact this is going to happen now has hit them all at once last night rather than slowly over the election, they're going to rage a bit. Democracy isn't supposed to be a faith, where everyone gets in line emotionally. It's a way to use this sort of civic engagement to avoid the internal decadence, and dogged poor judgement, of totalitarianism. As Trump would put it, it's to inject "High energy". So long as everyone follows the rules, and so far everyone has, the rage is perfectly natural. For the record I totally thought the rage following Obama's election was silly and manufactured, but I didn't see it as a threat to democracy. If anything it is an important feature.

And we are living in a globalized society, so what happens in America will effect others. I mean, you said yourself you wanted Trump to win for reasons pertaining to Russo-European relations.

Maybe, just maybe, the DNC should have chosen Bernie or literally anyone that didn't have so much dirt on them instead.

You see Dems get progressive candidates competing in their primaries from time to time, and if they are too progressive the blue dogs trot out the legacy of McGovern. But really, except for Bill Clinton, centrist Dems have been having a hell of a time. The left needs to stop worrying about McGoverns and start worrying about Gores, or Kerrys, or Hillarys (as the Reps learned with McCain and Romney).

We all said Trump was too extreme to win too, but here we are. This might be the new normal. You can't win elections on status quo anymore, you have to offer something now, some real energetic movement that gets people excited to vote. The trend of this year has been anti-establishment, this totally fits in line.

Chill the fuck out, Buddha.

- An American who is irrationally upset with a Dutchman for being irrationally upset with an Englishman for being irrationality upset with America.

I hope that we all can unite soon than later. I don't want the world to see America in this state of mind for a long time. Americans will need to work together and welcome our new president. If Clinton had won, I would of said the same thing. We need to unite as one and not be divided. This hate on here and all over the nation has torn apart friendships and families. My family last night was arguing about it and they usually don't argue about anything. It got bad to the point where my sister and my mom (and her boyfriend) started to curse. On Facebook, I have seen long friendships that went from middle school to high school being torn apart in the matter of seconds.

God, if you are out there, please help us and bring us together once more before it's too late...

Oh boy. Right, okay. So, I'll reply individually to people below, but to everyone generally: please go back and actually read what I said. Nowhere did I say I support Hillary (in fact, I called her a non-candidate too). Nowhere did I say Donald Trump shouldn't be president, considering he was, indeed, democratically elected in. I have no idea where the hell you got this from, other than making the assumption of "he doesn't like Trump so he's a filthy fucking frothy-mouthed fanatical leftie."

My point was that those who are brushing this aside as "oh, meh, the results of Trump's presidency probably won't be so bad, don't be hysterical" are completely ignoring the actual reason people are so shocked and appalled. They aren't appalled because they think WWIII is gonna happen, they're appalled and sick to the stomach at the thought that Donald Trump is the face of the US, and is now how the rest of the world sees the US. Statistically, I now have to believe that if I talk to an American online, any one of you, that you actually went out and voted for Trump, and that you agree with his lunacy. That's what is making people feel ill, and it's not hysterical to feel that way. To imply people hate the result because they're hysterical and think WWIII is gonna happen is just shooting down straw men rather than focusing on the reality that an absolutely vile, disgusting human being and joke of a "politician" is now your leader, and that that is a very bad thing.

Basically: I'm less pissed off that Trump won, and more pissed off at those people who agree that Trump is abhorrent, and yet are also saying that anyone who is seriously, deeply concerned about that fact is "hysterical". Sorry, no - people absolutely should be sick to their stomach at the thought of being represented by such a reprehensible man.

_____________________________________

That's only half the story though, isn't it?
... -snip- ...

<Snipped quote by mdk>

I agree completely with this. Working class are still the most important voting block, and they let the world know last night.
... -snip- ...

I fundamentally believe that "protest voting" is fucking moronic. Screwing over your entire country by voting for someone/something you know is goddamn terrible and an inferior choice just to stick your finger up at the establishment is stupid in the extreme. The catharsis gained by lashing out and expressing your dissatisfaction with the establishment with this sort of protest vote is vastly outweighed by the sheer damage that is usually caused by said vote. This is exactly what I am seeing in my own country, with Brexit.

Anyone who protest-voted in this way, who voted for Trump without believing his policies were best, has condemned themselves and their neighbours to four years of absolute travesty for the sake of essentially throwing a childish tantrum. The working class voting Trump just to assert that they are an important demographic, just to say "PAY ATTENTION TO ME LAH-DEE-DAH", is, again, just stupid, especially as they one of the demographics who have a high chance of suffering under his presidency. If you're dissatisfied with the Democrats, there are better ways to go about fixing what they're doing wrong than voting for someone you know is probably going to be worse.

So, the majority of Americans either: genuinely think Trump is a legitimate candidate and they like his policies; or they voted for him in protest, the flaws of which I have highlighted above. Neither of those is exactly endearing me to Trump voters, and, by extension, to the American populace who majority-voted him in.

_____________________________________

-snip-

Learn to read, please. <3 See the beginning of this post. To summarise: nowhere did I say Trump shouldn't be president now that the majority have voted for him. Nowhere did I announce who I supported in this race. If you want to participate in conversation, be sure you've actually read and understood what a person is saying rather than making blind assumptions such as "doesn't like Trump" = "Clinton supporter" = "thinks Trump should be impeached immediately", or whatever it was you were even trying to imply I thought. Thanks.

_____________________________________

@Vilageidiotx @Buddha, sorry, but just to clarify, the fact that I'm British doesn't mean I don't care about the results of this election or that I don't respect the American electorate's right to vote in whoever they want.
In terms of caring, this election affects the whole world, unfortunately - believe me, I thoroughly wish that wasn't so, but it's naive to pretend it isn't the case. Furthermore, I have a lot of genuinely close friends in the US who I am concerned for as well, and had been considering moving there to complete my PhD in a few years' time, so I have a high degree of personal investment too. Please don't be so convinced that anyone not on the American electoral register has no real, vested interest in this election.
In terms of respecting the electorate, I fully believe that democratic decisions should be upheld. That is, as a random example, why I am somewhat concerned about the current legal challenges around the government enacting Article 50 without consulting Parliament, and the potential ramifications of the decision swinging either way in our Supreme Court.

_____________________________________

It all begs the question - if Donald Trump is so fucking bad and unsuited for president, how the hell could a shrewd politician like Clinton lose in the first place? Maybe, just maybe, the DNC should have chosen Bernie or literally anyone that didn't have so much dirt on them instead.

Secondly, playing the blame game is precisely why this shit is happening. No, people aren't dumb and bigoted for voting Trump, they're just unsatisfied with the current status quo, as are people in the EU. Why do you think Brexit happened? Why are right-winged populist parties gaining traction throughout Western Europe in countries like France, Germany, the Netherlands, Austria and so forth? It's easy to dismiss everyone you don't agree with as a bigot and a racist, but the truth runs much deeper.

Please see what I said about "protest voting" above. I feel exactly the same way about the Brexit vote, and about the growth of the right-wing throughout Europe. You're right; people aren't racist bigots. They're still idiots for protest-voting on major issues out of petulant dissatisfaction, though.

.

Lastly, a message to you folks that have been plaguing my social media feeds (and the Guild's status bar) all day - politics is a game of logic. The moment you start getting emotional is the moment some politician starts using that emotion for their own agenda.

Could not disagree more. Logic should temper emotion, but not eradicate it.

There is an obvious moral and philosophical aspect to policy and legislation - perhaps even more so in the US than in many other places. Moral views in particular are, and should be, guided by emotion to a large extent. There are many, many hypothetical examples I could give to demonstrate this, but I'm sure you're familiar with most of the arguments surrounding such things.

It logically follows that you cannot and should not eradicate emotion from politics. You are right in that emotion can be manipulated; and this is why I say logic should always temper emotion. But to say it should be eradicated completely is to encourage a society devoid of any sense of moral or philosophical imperatives in favour of pure efficiency, which tends to end badly when we start doing things like killing off everyone above retirement age.

And, therefore, I stand by my original point/post: the idea that people who do not agree with Trump and his moral character (which, in my opinion, is the vast majority of the electorate considering how many protest-votes I think likely came out) have a right to, and probably should, feel pretty sickened by the fact that he's now been declared the pinnacle of the US' entire culture.

@Halo I'll do away with the condescending tone, thank you.

You're wrong. Simply put, your opinion is stupid because it infers that people have a right to be 'sick' (what the fuck, who would actually be sick for this, lol) just because they dislike this man. That they have a right to be sick because he represents their country.

Do you know what that is called? Representative democracy. This is how it works. Trump now represents them, because people voted for him. The majority voted for him, in fact, and so he is now the president and therefore the representation of the American people. And yes I do find it entitled that you're asking for people to not say that it's hysterical to be upset about it, because this is the democratic process. You knew this before you voted, the whole process of voting showed a persons participation in the democratic process and I find it very very hard to believe that someone has a right to be sick (disappointed maybe, but should be accepting never the less) just because their preferred candidate didn't win. If it had been the other way around, Trump supporters would've been upset too. But being sick? That's fucking irrational.

I also get the idea that you really really dislike Trump much more than you dislike Clinton or any other random candidate, as you called him a large variety of words. The fact that you put his campaign away as a shitshow shows that much to me.

And yes you are being fucking hysterical, because path dependency, legal obligations for Trump and limitations on his power are put in place especially in the United States of America where states have a large amount of autonomy in and of their own. You act as if he's about to declare the empire of Trumpia, where as he's not even in fucking office yet. There are so many policy-making obstacles to overcome for him that thinking anything other than 'it'll be okay' is stupid.

I also think it is very ironic you say something about 'not declaring who you supported' but simultaneously assuming what I was trying to imply. I don't know who you supported, it obviously wasn't Trump, you're visibly upset with the outcome (and as you say, sick with it?) and I find that stupid because this is the outcome of a democratic process we all agreed upon.

I think nobody has a right to be sick. I think everyone has a right and obligation to suck it up and vote more wisely in the next election. But yes, Trump will represent them, and despite what you seem to believe, representative democracy ensured that as a majority wished for Trump to represent them. Therefore, mob law is rule. No need to be upset, only to accept what has happened and use it as a lesson in the future, no?

Furthermore your insinuation that the rest of the world now has to see Trump as the pinnacle of American society is laughable at best. Come on. Be more creative. I never saw Obama as the pinnacle of American society, so I will never see Trump as pinnacle of American society. Presidents are just people. If you think otherwise you're dehumanizing the most human process in the world, namely governance.

And to be honest your last sentence is what bothers me most. It's not anybody's fault that Trump and Clinton were the only two choices other than that of the American people. If you want to be angry be angry at the American people as a collective for being such a shitty people that they allowed these people to get to to the top. It's not this 'vile mans' fault that they gave him the chance to become president. He simply took it.

You know that meme about 'how did we allow these 2 clowns to become candidates' said the country mourning the death of a gorilla 6 months after it's death? It's fucking true. The anger is misplaced if it is directed at Trump. Rather people should invest more time into knowing a candidate, but also in knowing the political process in the USA. It's fucking mind boggling that people still believe Clinton is the 'lesser evil' for example.

<Snipped quote by Buddha>

It is a form of hating on their policies though. Liberals aren't sitting here thinking "Oh dear, how horrible we won't get a trophy!" The left is concerned about the policies Trump will inevitably pursue, and since the fact this is going to happen now has hit them all at once last night rather than slowly over the election, they're going to rage a bit. Democracy isn't supposed to be a faith, where everyone gets in line emotionally. It's a way to use this sort of civic engagement to avoid the internal decadence, and dogged poor judgement, of totalitarianism. As Trump would put it, it's to inject "High energy". So long as everyone follows the rules, and so far everyone has, the rage is perfectly natural. For the record I totally thought the rage following Obama's election was silly and manufactured, but I didn't see it as a threat to democracy. If anything it is an important feature.

And we are living in a globalized society, so what happens in America will effect others. I mean, you said yourself you wanted Trump to win for reasons pertaining to Russo-European relations.

Me wanting him to win doesn't actually change anything, and if Clinton would've won I would've accepted that instead of throwing a tantrum online, you know. It's not my country - I have no influence and no right to an opinion on the matter except for a casual one. It's nothing to be sick about.

And I don't see it as a form of hating on policies because so far I have seen nothing constructive being added to his policies, only attacks on his character, which is not exactly what I find good feedback for him. Have yet to see anyone actually look at his policies and point out errors.

'He's a racist' doesn't really prove anything to me, since I actually find his ideas reasonable depending on how they are implemented.

I'm not going to get into a political debate, but I will say that, as a New Yorker, the vibe of the city is definitely different today. There is an air of solemness that has swept over a city that usually crackles with energy. If you didn't know any better you'd honestly think that someone had died. (And the rain here today certainly isn't helping the mood.)

The people of this city know Trump. They've dealt with him and his shenanigans for ages. Crowds of New Yorkers literally booed him yesterday when he got out of his little motorcade to go into a school to vote. (Srsly.) I think it's very telling that, however much people dislike Hillary, they almost unanimously picked her over Trump at every turn in this state. And I don't think it was entirely due to us being a primarily blue state.

Something wicked this way comes, folks.

Prepare yourselves.

Jesus fucking Christ.

Edit: @Buddha

@Awson What can I say, it's a slow day. And political debates are fun.

@Awson What can I say, it's a slow day. And political debates are fun.

You're fucking stupid. Arguing that people shouldn't be allowed to be upset over a large world event is just nonsense.

I'll let Halo go into more detail.

@Awson Upset =/= sick. End of the story, I think? It's not the end of the world and certainly not the end of the USA: as I have pointed out, path dependency, bureaucratic workloads and the US legal system will prevent him from doing anything major in his first term (something stupid like building a wall) and I seriously doubt he will get elected a second term.

And if he does, that's on the American people.