I'm gonna be honest, and you already know some of this. You are disrupting this RP.
Not by godmodding actually, as in being more powerful than reasonable. No, by constantly pushing the borders of fluff.

But then later, you claim you can navigate ships in the warp, since you are an ork psyker.
However, being severed from the ork gestalt field, you wouldn't be able to navigate like orks. Since they rely heavily on that to do it.

It's the constant "Well, actually!" which is getting on my fluff correctness nerve. It's going crazy right now TBH. So much i myself is even a bit sour over the whole thing.
Constantly finding snippets of weird wiki info to support that your ork can do just this. But doesn't count as an ork and thus isn't affected by this thing, except for when it is useful to, then he's clearly an ork. And other similar events.
Plus the seemingly random acts of kindness and aggression towards Xepherial. I mean, why? Make up your mind.

Exactly how i have been feeling. with the added caveat, i am uncomfortable with the idea of @Necroes losing the ork and playing another psyker. I fully expect to run into exactly the same problem as with the Ork regardless of the species, i would love to be wrong but i expect the new psyker to be wracked with the same problems of being conviniently a master of every kind of power as needed and have enough juice to summon hordes of deamons or cut the ship in half. or whatever. We have other psykers who have not really used their power much because well... why would they. They where in a null zone for a while and the ork was so much more capable in every capacity they needn't have bothered. (at least this is my interperetation of the situation)

@Sophrus There is a massive reason you haven't seen me use many powers.

I am a ritual psyker.
Thus I am a very powerful psyker, but barely able to do the fast casting needed for combat.
Why?
I just felt like it.

@Klomster well, ok that makes sense too

@Klomster Honestly, I feel the main problem is that I have a fundamentally different view of the 40k setting then everyone in this group seems to. i.e., I view it as a means by which to facilitate a unique and engrossing narrative, as opposed to its own story with pre-existing rules for how it functions. This RP isn't completely adherent to the 40k 'narrative,' and could be written off as something completely impossible that never happened at any moment by the whims of GW. Which makes sense given that the narrative as a whole has been that way forever, with different 'sources' being made official and unofficial at the whim of the writers in charge of the fluff that particular week.

In every instance you've mentioned, I could have gone with something more simple, 'fluff-adherent' (I'd say stereotypical), and in my opinion boring. I chose not to because I felt it would have made a more interesting narrative.

I could have just made Urgrugg a stock-standard weird boy. But then, he's just an ork boy 90% of the time, and a weak one at that. Not to mention, he'd be throwing off spores all the time, so if we stayed anywhere long enough more orks would just kind of happen.

I could have just suggested the type of ship we're on. However, I've made it clear, I think Imperial tech is boring, and my alternative was far more interesting.

With the ogryn, I could have just killed him with a swift jab to the eye socket. Urgrugg's a big ork, and the crystal is sufficiently hard enough to do it. But, I wanted to leave the option open for him becoming a nurgle ogryn, so I used an alternative approach.

I'm not blind to these options, I choose my alternatives for reasons. I find fluff to back up the possibility, to allow for a more interesting (in my opinion, at least) story. 40k as a setting has never been a perfectly complete, and singularly cohesive narrative. So, like the writers of the novels do on a regular basis, I pick and choose what I want to allow for a story I think is good, instead of letting the stories of past writers limit my own.

However, that doesn't seem to be what everyone here is doing. It's disappointing, but ultimately, I'd rather continue with the group then get upset about it. If I were to create a new character, it'd be a more traditional psyker. As of yet, I've not thought of anything that would realistically have him joining the group any time soon, but it's a matter of time.

Ey, i haven't said all your stuff is wrong @Necroes.

I don't see why this is so "not according to fluff" though.
As with GW, they are insane and i try not to think about them. I will admit it. I live in the past in some sort of slightly after 4th edition world where everything was good.

As with the spores, there are squigs and grots long before orks, but i get your point. And i think it was a good choice.

As with the ship, eldar would have been interesting, but we can not really within any sort of sense within the lore understand how to drive an eldar vessel.
The prospect of forcing eldar to work for us is fun. But implausible. However a lot more plausible than driving it ourselves.
But the wraithbone idea was a bit out there. I'm for seeing how one can bend the 40k world and see how far one can go. I added whole new races and stuff when i ran rogue trader once.
But then at the same time there are certain rules. Like bonesingers with wraithbone.

Example of me letting players bend the rules.
When i ran rogue trader, one of the players was the astropath. He wanted to be corrupted.
I saw it as highly implausible, but he came up with a sort of plausible story.
I thought about it, said screw it, and let him be corrupted. So, he got corrupted after the binding, so it could happen that he was corrupted. Also he refused to play if he wasn't allowed to be corrupted.
He could be a bit annoying that way.

Many would say "but astropaths are basically never corrupted, because the emperor has reforged their souls to protect against that." But i say it could happen, so i let it happen.

But then there are factual rules of the setting.
Like you need to be a bonesinger to mold wraithbone. Only navigators can properly navigate the warp. Etc'

I tend to not let any bending of the factual rules. But there are many things one can bend to try and solve problems.
Like a psyker player only having 3 psychic powers. But then the player say "I want to try and emulate this effect with psychic power."
I'd let him try.
It won't be easy, it's implausible he'll succeed. But since it is plausible that the psyker could do it. I'm usually fine with it.

But there's also the question of power level.
"I want to light a candle." Go for it.
"I want to rip the other ship in two." The what now?

All in all, it's a case by case thing.

@Klomster Like I said, fundamentally different view of the setting. You view it, or so it seems, through the eyes of a 40k RPG DM.

Yar, matey, I be a pirate! To me, 40k be "... more what you'd call 'guidelines' than actual rules."*

*Captain Barbosa, Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (2003)

@Necroes I get all that, but you are playing a different RP than we are essentially. You are playing an ultra-powerful top tier character (eg Chaos lords, Chaptermasters, Warbosses) who could ruin battlefields singlehandedly and more devastatingly than anyone short of an alpha level psyker or battle titan. In your CS you even said you could brawl with nobs and small warbosses. and have mastered a dozen Ok, 5 but still... psyker realms of study that usually take a single psyker a life time to master. Even high level sanctioned psykers or librarians dont have that many skills.

You are playing a power fantasy game while we are playing an "against all odds" game, at least for the moment. Most of us could not fight an ork nob single handedly, even lucius and Xeph would have a hell of a time with it. Oskar would die (which is fine, i knew he would be reletavely weaker) and the dread mage would die even harder than Oskar assuming he didnt magic his way out of it.

Oh, as for fluff, i take liberties with the fluff too. Im sure everyone does, but we dont need to find archaic notes in the fluff to justify an interesting story or vastly extrapolate in a way that we want that simply doesnt make sense. i think the biggest example was the chaos spawn slaves as nobody had the materials on hand to make them or the know how but that was ignored for the fact that it would just be interesting.

Finally i still dont know why the ork was allowed to follow us at all. the ogryn didnt kill him because, well killing PCs is generally not well recieved and the character was following lucius dumbly and lucius didnt do anything about it so, meh. Everyone else though should have been directly hostile to the unknown Ork because i thought they where kill on sight for basically everyone due to spores (and yes i know he doesnt but literally nobody IC does). Oskar will behave this way, and will try to kill the ork as soon as he is given an opportuinity unless he is given a very compelling reason. Any imperial soldier would act the same and does not want the ship taken over by ork spores. (again, exactly nobody knows the ork does not give off spores)

@Sophrus Points taken, but allow me a rebuttal: None of those issues are my fault alone.

1.) Yes, my character is on a higher power tear than the rest of the group. I had no idea that would be the case when I made him. You'll note, his was the first CS posted; I had no idea what to expect from everyone else, power-level wise. Beyond that, this is 40k, and we're protagonists. In keeping with 40k style, we're Going to be better than the average equivalent. That's why we're special enough to Be protagonists. Or so was my reasoning.

2.) I didn't produce my 'justifications' until people started challenging me. I was put in a situation where I needed to find solutions to plot holes that were pointed out it my ideas, so I did. But, that comes back to me having a more liberal view as to what is 'acceptable' for a story set in the 40k setting.

3.) I never, at any point, said anything about Not killing the ork on sight. I thought it would be a problem going in. People just kind of ignored it, and I didn't say anything about it. I hand-waved away the issue when I created him, everyone else seemed to hand-wave the issue when they encountered him. I'm sorry you feel it's an issue, but blaming it solely on me seems unfair. If nothing else, you never mentioned it, either, so you've yourself to blame as much as anyone.

@Necroes fair point, But:

as for the power level, that is a good point i should have condidered. However being a protagonist of a story in 40k does not require being a Primarch or whatever. There are plenty of stories of random troopers to show the prospective of the common man, so they dont have to be much better than anyone else just more intresting which can be captured without power. Which is what i was trying to capture with Ga'duk and Oskar. And JB did tell you early on to Nerf the ork, and i wont speak for anyone else but i expected him to come much closer to our level.

I understand you are being much more liberal with the fluff interperetations, but i think its obvious that many of us are less so. And it wasnt liberal fluff interperetations i was calling BS on. at least not all the time. It was the critical metagaming that the ork knows how to do whatever is convinent at the time added to the fluff justification. Eg: how does he know how to shape wraithbone, or create these chaos spawn slaves when all he is supposed to know is how to blow shit up.

I didnt say this was your fault and i acknowledged why i didnt press the issue before. which boiled down to RPing a fking retarded character while everyone else ignored it. That being said... you have done very little to justify that being ignored and have now openly attacked Oskar and Xeph. Since Oskar has no reason to ignore the problem, he wont. I was more expressing my confusion as why everyone else is still just ignoring it as the ork has proven to be dangerous, powerful and unpredictable.

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's; and render unto God that which is God's.

In other words, do whatever's appropriate, because this got out of hand in a way that I don't really want to interfere in. However, I do think Sophrus has kind of a point when it comes to metagamey "Urgrugg happens to be able to do whatever's convenient with his powers" stuff, on top of his usual Orkiness.

When I have to make a decision with heavy consequences, and I know there's no going back, I do it by envisioning myself in the future, after the choice has been made, and I analyze how I feel once it is done. Now, each of you, picture yourself in this rp without Urgugg anymore. ... Nobody is watching you, nobody is judging you. You can be honest with yourself in silence. How do you feel? Do you feel regret, better? Something else? That feeling you have, should tell you the choice you should go with. It has told me.

Personally, I feel relieved, and that tells me that I, bottom line, would be happier without Urgugg. In fact, I do not mean to hurt feelings, but I'd be happier without the player. Now I know that hurts to hear, but I'm kinda old and wise and shit, and I weild truth like a battleaxe. It has to be done. I don't hate Necroes or anyone, and I'm not mad in any way, but it's time someone, ie. me, laid it out there and said it like it is.

Now because I'm not a dick, and I care about how people feel, I am going to add this addendum. I'm going to explain a few things so my reasoning can be understood.

A psyker ork is a really cool character, and Necroes is a very good writer with a ton of imagination. However, I beleive that what people are in love with is what they thought this character would be or could be, rather than what he actually is in front of us on the screen. This character totally could work, lorewise, powerlevelwise, etc, but not as written by Necroes. You see, throughout this rp, Necroes has nixed and gibbed and fought and argued, demonstrating a repetitive resistance to suggestion, insensitivity to other player's and GM's enjoyment, and complete inability to predict other people having problems with his character's actions. He can't see through other player's eyes, and he should. He keeps saying we all have different persepctives on the world of warhammer 40k, yet never strives for concordance. In fact, he resists it and tries to sway the group. His proposals are wild and outlandish, and certainly exciting, but not probable in the least, giving this rp an almost animated, cartoonish feel in it's lack of realism. Urgugg at every event as been able to pop up doing whatever he wants and get away with it, because magic. This character never seems to find any reason to rely on any other character or stick with the band. Necroes' plans and desires just don't match the rest of ours.

I think what I have witnessed over time is a deficit in social maturity, ie. a player who can't work with others, and for me, it's getting frustrating to keep having to struggle with this ONE person to keep them involved, keep them alive, keep ME alive, and feel like my character has any relevency in comparison. Do you not remember we already lost a player for this very reason? The writing is good, but the rping is bad. I would much rather see a psyker ork played by Klomster or JB.

So that's how I really feel. I'm not demanding Necroes leave or we kill his character, but I have zero expectation that he will change. These are just not issues a person comes to understand overnight. He doesn't see what he is doing and isn't gonna. Necroes, if you quit, fine. No hard feelings. Maybe some day it'll be more fun to be in a thread with you.

@Wraithblade6@BCTheEntity@Sophrus@Klomster@Jbcool

Well, what am I supposed to say in the face of that?

Am I supposed to look like a petulant child, and try and defend myself? To justify my actions, like it somehow matters, despite knowing some (if not all) of you just don't like me as a person.

Am I supposed to point out the faults of others? Throw mud around to try and make myself look better, despite the fact the people I'd be throwing it at are the ones I'm trying to make myself look better to.

Should I apologize? Admit fault, where I don't think I've committed a sin. Just accept every accusation that's been leveled at me, even those I don't agree with. Say I'm sorry, grit my teeth, ask for another chance, and spend any remaining time with this group stepping on eggshells, at the best.

Maybe I'm expected to just give up, and walk away. Admit defeat and let my actions make me look like a self-proclaimed martyr, or some angry internet troll.

I've been roleplaying as a hobby for over a decade. I've been in any number of groups. I've been in groups where I was the problem player, and groups where I wasn't. I've had groups fall apart around me, no matter what I did, and groups that threw me out only to fall apart without so much as another post. I've seen RPs through to the end, and RPs just kind of fade away.

But here, I'm at a loss. I honestly don't know what to do. I'd like to continue with this group, but I don't want to be where I'm not wanted. I'd like to show you all that I'm not just some prick, blind to the feelings of others, who's nothing but a waste of talent and imagination on a poor player. However, I don't want to try and change minds that are already set in stone, only to make moods worse for no reason.

So, before I make any decisions, and before you make any of yours, I'd like to ask;
What would you all do? You've seen my position, and I can only hope I've made my stance clear. If you were me, and somehow found yourself with a similar choice to make, which would you pick?

@Necroes Let me make it clear that I do not dislike you, not as a person or an RPer, in fact - as I would suggest that I have been - I like to give everyone a chance or chances before going this far with anything.

Now, I also agree with you about GW and their fluff; they retcon and roll back and change things ALL the time, there are some bits of fluff that are so far back that they're simply not used any more, and I've no problem with 'pushing the limits' as it were. Not as a player or GM.

What you appeared to be doing was pushing the limits of 'factual' pieces of lore, not just bits and bobs that you could easily say have been changed over the decades. Orks being corrupted by Chaos, no matter where you look, has never really been a thing, Greenskins functioning well without their gestalt field likewise has been somewhat enshrined as a no-go, being able to use an Eldar ship would - even if you pushed the fluff a little - be pretty much impossible for anyone but another Eldar; that isn't just unique to 40k either, it's got precident in reality and other sci-fi settings as well.

That, and the seemingly way above power level of the character, are my only problems with you. Your RPing is sound, and you've certainly got a lot of imagination.

What would I personally do now?

I could leave the RP entirely, I could accept my character being killed off and come back as A) A completely different type (non-psychic) character or B) As a psyker with suitabley lowered levels of power - with the added caveat that, should I then start 'playing up' again, I would leave without rancour. I could find another RP that's more accepting in my own eyes, or I could show those within the current one that I'm perfectly capable of proving them wrong about me.

Those are what would go through my mind.

I'll say this again, just to re-iterate, that I do not mind whether you remain or leave as I having nothing against your RPing or you as a person (I don't even know you as a person); if you stay though, then I would strongly advise a non-psyker character, because Urgrugg is going to die.

@Wraithblade6@BCTheEntity@Sophrus@Klomster

If anyone wishes to say anything else about anyone else, please PM me; if anyone wishes to make a reply (let's keep it civil!), then post it here.

@Necroes, i feel i should say this also. I do not dislike you as a person. I know we argued plenty, and yes i did get quite frustrated but it takes a little more than that to make me dislike a person. It was simply a matter of different RP philosophy. Personally i would be fine with giving you a chance with a different character who is not a psyker. However i understand where Wraith is coming from and believed much the same when i was particularly frustrated, though i held my tongue because i generally hoped you would understand our position and take our greavances to heart. In this case im hoping the same because your writing is solid and imaginative and i am confident that you could craft an interesting facet to the game without the metagaming and, for ease of everything, follow the fluff a little more.

If you no longer wish to play with us, i totally understand and i wish for no hard feelings.

@Necroes That's a heartfelt post. I'll try to respond with one.

You seem like a kinda wild, positive and imaginative guy(?) those are all good qualities. I however only share imaginative of those. Ok i try to be positive, but it's hard.
You are also a bit a bit of a rebel in your style. I have a friend IRL who is a rebel at heart. He's really fun to hang out with since we share a lot of hobbies and ideas. But i can't hang with him too much since i'd be overrun with all his energy.

But it's really fun in dozes. :D

I think you like worldbuilding. And that's really cool. I love worldbuilding myself.
But i don't think anyone going into a 40k rp expects worldbuilding. They are setting themselves up for some action in a evil future full of possibilities. Many which are bad.
So here comes a guy who's all like "Eyyy! Let's change up the playing field a little! Why we not just bend the rules a bit!" And people are confused and feel a bit annoyed, since here we have come and decided to play some 40k, which is a very defined and old setting. Sure, it has seen a bunch of revisions but most of the dramatic ones have happened very early and very late in its lifetime.

Most think of 40k with this in between kind of way. And the lore is actually mostly straightforward there.

So we come in with a mindset, to play within the box, then you Necroes comes along and suggest that the east wall, it's a bit boring, let's cut away half of it.
And people are like "Wait, what?" and it goes on from there.

So where most of us are considering which of the balls of backstory really fits in the box, the red ball or green ball. Since one needs to decide since both of those pieces of fluff are mutually exclusive, the whole cutting up the box is a bit too crazy. How are the balls gonna stay inside?
If one is making a crossover, go nuts. Rip the box apart.
I've had fun like that myself, with my battle brother Aurellius rp on the grey knights forum.
greyknights.forumotion.com/t3517-batt…

It's crazy, lore be damned and let's have stupid fun.

So i think you play better with more world building, where all rules have not been defined. Or you just dislike rules overall.
Regardless, you wondered what i'd do in your place.

I join an RP, check out the backstory and make a character i think would be fun. I bend a little with the rules since that is fun. (Heck, just look at Zuriel.) And make a really cool character i want to play.
He's got magic, and a cool gun, or whatever.
The character isn't disapproved from the beginning, since i know what happens if one of my characters is disapproved from the beginning.
If the character isn't ok, no changing it. It will burn.
Either i make a new character, or i leave the rp. IRL i've always made new characters since i want to play with my groups.

But this time, i've not been disapproved, which means my character was alright! I mean, all the info was there to begin with, this character is ok in this rp!
So i go nuts, do the epic things i've planned to do. It's cool to write how awesome my character is.



But then, other players come along and say -"You can't do that, it's not ok with lore."
Mostly when this happens, i don't know the lore. Since i'm too lazy to read up on all the lore beforehand.

And here the big difference in our personalities comes in.
Either, i try to go more with the lore. It's not ok after all. Or i go -"Well, if i do it like this. Is it ok then?"
But if the players are like, NOPE. Stick to lore. What you are doing isn't allowed, do it right or not at all. (Which is basically what we're on here.)
I'd be really bummed out, think i did wrong and blame myself. After all it's always my fault and i leave, possibly sad.

But you don't leave. You don't let people let you down. Or something.
I actually don't see where you are coming from, since i as a person isn't like that. I also have aspergers which means it's a bit troublesome to think from others perspectives. Unless i have studied it before.

Since i don't naturally figure out how i should react in such a situation. I don't know the correct way.
Or i have decided "This is the correct way." And will stick with it to death. I won't understand others views if they just state it.

I've rambled, i do that.

So, i think what people are more like is the question.
"Necroes, no we don't dislike you. But you can't cut up our cardboard play castle to build a spaceship. We are playing knights now. Either you come inside and play knights with us and argue like us on what sort of balls we should throw at each other. Or come another time and then we might be playing spaceship."

I think the metaphor works.
I think....

Anyway. Don't feel like i dislike you, i've actually agreed with you on several occasions and tried to be non-anal on my view on 40k.
Tried, perhaps not succeeded mind you.

So Necroes.
Do you wanna play knights with us? :P
Otherwise we can build a spaceship some other time, it's probably gonna be fun!

I would like to continue with this group. If no one has any further comments on the matter, then I believe I will. I thank you all for your honesty.

I'm currently trying to work with JB to come up with a new character. I'm aiming to create someone who will be useful to the group in general, and not just in combat. Right now, the idea I have that I think would work best is an Alpha Legionaire who can help lend credence to the group's claim that everything on the ship is fine, so the crew at large should continue working.

Alright.

@Necroes You could make a regular type person who has the overpowered ability to appear normal and talk to people.

It might be a bit overpowered though.
(Just kidding, :P)

But the immediate thing that occurs to me as lacking is someone who can go into a room, and not have everyone point and scream at in terror/awe.
A clever character.

Alpha legion dude could work, but do we need more marines?
I feel kinda small here. With Oskar.

@Klomster How is that not exactly what Oskar is? He's a vanilla human. I mean, he looks like he's had some cyber modifications, but that's not uncommon in 40k. Plus, with how he's been interacting with the other prisoners already, I'd say he shows quite a charismatic demeanor.

Also, Oskar and Zuriel are only 'small' in the literal sense. One has years of training and battlefield experience among the guard, while the other is a tech priest with enough skill to hack Imperial battle ship systems, in addition to psyker powers at least potent enough to let him turn his entire body to sentient mist. Sure, in a fist fight, the astartes would probably win. However, at any point either of the two are fist fighting a space marine, things are already profoundly fucked up.

I get your point, the group doesn't have a traditional 'skill monkey'... but we don't need one. Unless I'm just blatantly unaware of something, apart from medical abilities, there's nothing I can think of we'd need done that someone in the group can't accomplish.
If I Am blatantly unaware of something, by all means, let me know.

That said, before anyone says it; No, I have no interest in portraying the part of Dave Jimson, Officer of the Estate Imperium, designated buerocrat 146-295/B, in charge of filing expense claims and reports for the galley of Imperial Naval Vessel 254-769-2065, "Macharius' Pride."

How about a hospitalier?

There are those who are not proper sisters of battle. Who just go about helping people.

Or similar.
Those have great knowledge of medicine. Astartes physiology is sturdy enough to fix itself with some monitoring. And for me.... well, i'm not totally mechanical.
So i'll just make sure not to get any important bits blown off. I should be fine.

Also, in a pinch, (and if he would want to), the techmarine can fix up a techpriest without much problem.
Most of the systems are exactly the same.
So with only a few "Wait, where does this part go? Oh, right." It would go fine.

But yeah true, i guess i sorta forgot Oskar a bit. However he is a criminal and looks the part....

Nah, it will be fine. I'm sure you can come up with a character. :)
I myself never try to fill in skill gaps in the group. I make my character. Then the group might have severe problems. But one can solve that in game!