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Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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I haven't much time at the moment, but here are some of the reasons I find this more than just "Mentally ill man goes off on shooting rampage with large arsenal of weapons and somehow was living off his winnings from gambling and Lockheed-Martin investments."

I am not by any means claiming "deep state" or the like, but that the totality of circumstances indicates that there is significantly more here than is being let on to, especially with evidence like that of his death photos, of which I will not post here for obvious reasons. I am more suspicious than ever, especially given how spectacularly they have failed to provide the people with an answer and what they have said, such as about the note, is potentially telling.

Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Frettzo
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It seems Catalonia is about to declare independence from Spain. The referendum received 90% voting in favor, and the King of Spain Felipe is not happy about it.

<Snipped quote>


They're graffiti-ing (??) faces of Che Guevara on the streets. They're going to turn into the next Venezuela
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Sanctus Spooki
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Okay, not to nitpick, but almost all of this information came out after you posted originally, making it hard to claim that these are the reasons you believe it to be organized conspiracy (I use conspiracy loosely, the deep state was mostly a joke on my part, I should stop doing that). They are however valid points, thank you for the links. Moving on:

In regards to the first link: this isn't really in debate, he'd set up at least two stops where he had further caches. It also is not relevant. We are not arguing whether this man planned on surviving, merely the source of his inspiritation. Plenty of disturbed mass murderers believe that they can survive/escape. Disillusionment and all that. Admittedly, why he chose to end his life (I assume that he killed himself shortly after the shooting ended) is a bit of a mystery. The time between last shot being fired and first officer on the scene is rather close though, making a second shooter a hard sell. My guess, and I am in agreement with the sheriff in this, would be it has something to do with the security guard he shot before police arrived, making him think he had miscalculated the time he had to escape.

For the second link, this is a headline, nothing more, a better link would have been the actual conference, though it is somewhat long. Taking a single statement out of context is a mass disservice to anyone involved. skip to 21:00 for the secret life statement. The news will be milking this for all it's worth, for as long as possible.
youtube.com/watch?v=603C9zCbOu4

For the third, this is the same case as his supposed GF, they are simply looking for a woman he was seen with in the days leading up to the attack. This is Las Vegas we are talking about, it could be explained any number of ways, only one of which is particularly ominous. Again a person of interest does not mean a suspect.

Fourth link, I understand why you included this, I just wish you had chosen something else, everything about this receipt is rather fishy, least of which is that the date is one day before Paddock checked into the hotel/airbnb. I highly doubt the police/fbi botched the date he checked in. There will always be sick people who seek to gain from tragedies in anyway they can. I could also be wrong about this, but there is absolutely no concrete evidence regarding the veracity of this receipt.

Fifth link, this repeats the statement of secret life, and refers to how he may have had help. One statement, earlier into the conference that I can't quite remember where, is how he finds it hard to believe he was able to move the amount of hardware into his room by himself. Which, while I hate to call the sheriff stupid, is rather silly. He was there for days, it would be rather easy to get it all up there over time. Hell, he could have had hotel employees cart the weaponry upstairs for him, if he properly concealed it. "Amassing a large arsenal and ammunition for decades" This is blatant pandering and again misquoting the sheriff. 33:33 is the source of the 'accomplice' statement. Again the sheriff is taken out of context. They are investigating every possibility, as they should be. Speaking of his own opinion he does find it hard to fully accept the idea he acted fully alone, but he is very clear he is speaking of his own personal opinion, not that of either the police or the FBI directly involved in the case. It is a very interesting hypothesis to consider though.

The sixth link is completely up in the air, we know it is not a suicide note, that is all. It could be a 'scorecard' it could be a total red herring. It could be anything. If the paper does contain sort of relevant information, they could be withholding it for many reasons. Least of which is it points to an additional suspect.

At no point has anyone suggested he was living off of his gambling winnings, but once again, even his brother supports the fact that the shooter was wealthy, even saying that 100000$ was no big deal for him. What do you mean by his death photo? I am not highly familiar with bullet wounds to the skull, so I may be missing something. Finally, the search for an 'answer' is probably a futile search. It is impossible to get a fully satisfying answer with the lone gunman dead, as we will never be able to question him to truly uncover his motive.

You continue to insinuate that there is more to this than meets the eye, without expanding upon what that even means. An important question to ask is why would a group carry out this attack? How would they benefit? What is their motive? Foreign terrorism can be crossed out, as there would be zero reason to cover up such an attack, and if there was any suspicion of foreign involvement, the US Government would be drowning us in it. Domestic terrorism can likely be crossed off because of lack of evidence pointing to such, we can assume he would have left some sort of memento explaining his political motivations such as a video or perhaps a note (I discount the circled paper because if Mr Bilzerian can get a head-shot of a man who blew out his brains, I assume he can also obtain a photo of a sheet of paper) however if he was planning on continuing his murder spree, he may have intended to release these at a later time.

We are then left to either a lone-madman, or some sort of conspiracy (The aforementioned deep-state) With a lone gun-man we have dozens of other similar cases (simply not of this scale, at least in the U.S) where almost all suffered from mental disturbances. Simply being capable, or having a high kill count does not discount mental illness. Breivik was clearly a madman, but he was also by all reports highly capable, more so than the LV shooter, he simply had less resources. Also, if this wasn't the work of a madman, you would expect an actual target (whether one or many) not what amounts to COD style spray-and-pray into a crowd. The Unabomber, despite being disturbed, was remarkably directed in his targets, even taking steps to minimize his bombs to reduce injuries to people other than his intended targets. The LV shooter on the other hand has not demonstrated a high level of capability or control, simply a large amount of money that allowed him to easily acquire whatever he may need.

On the subject of conspiracy, it was a semi-valid claim during the Obama administration, since in almost all cases the president used these tragedies to push for stricter gun control. With Trump as president, and a majority republican senate this is almost ridiculous to contemplate, and by the time he is ousted this will largely have been pushed from the forefront of the public's mind. Any conspirator's would have to understand this, you would assume, and would simply bide their time for a more opportune moment, such as right before an upcoming election, where such a tragedy would likely galvanize centrist citizens to the left. Or shortly after an election where the democratic candidate has already won, removing public misgivings towards gun control.

So while I understand where you are arguing from, none of it seems particularly credible to me, and with all due respect, simply a need to make sense out of a senseless situation.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Sanctus Spooki
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I am an idiot who manages to post things twice when trying to edit a simple spelling error
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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I do not believe his to be organized conspiracy so much as I but this to be a clear cut case of what we are not being told, to which I mean this was not just a madman with a gun, or rather guns. My current take on this is that, based on their phrasing and how abysmal they are conveying information, they either do not have an answer or are attempting to find answers beyond say political, ideological, or religious radicalization.

Most active shooters do not assume they are going to escape or survive, at least not in any information I have been privy to. It is always assumed they will continue in mass or active shooting until confronted, in which they often kill themselves or suffer death-by-cop as it were. This is unusual, of course not impossible, but it adds well into that his entire circumstance is strange.

That is my only point, that there are too many unusuality about the man and the shooting as a whole; I wish I had more time to explain, but I am away again already. My point is not conspiracy theories, as those I do not peddle, but that there is too many pieces that are not fitting together well to just say mental illness.

Worse yet, the public is not buying the narrative being put out right now. People are losing their minds and are actually taking the real fringe theories more seriously than they should.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 4 yrs ago Post by Polymorpheus
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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<Snipped quote by POOHEAD189>

They're graffiti-ing (??) faces of Che Guevara on the streets. They're going to turn into the next Venezuela


I had no idea about that. That's kind of concerning.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Andreyich
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It seems Catalonia is about to declare independence from Spain. The referendum received 90% voting in favor, and the King of Spain Felipe is not happy about it.

independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/c…

Nope

Take that anarchshits.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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I'm not sure of any of their political affiliations. It's interesting to see shifts in nations and cultures like this, though. I wonder if a Catalonia independence (if it ever does happen) would have such a negative effect on its economy and policies like a Scottish Independence would, or to a lesser extent, Brexit.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by mdk
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I just wonder what Angela Merkel's gonna do about it. Because I have to imagine that the EU gets involved, and if the Spanish police were beating people bloody for attending a poll, just imagine what the German jackboots are gonna do once they're off the leash.

Or would that be bad optics? *shrug*
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Sanctus Spooki
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I'm going to hate myself for posting like this, but bleh.

I do not believe his to be organized conspiracy so much as I but this to be a clear cut case of what we are not being told, to which I mean this was not just a madman with a gun, or rather guns. My current take on this is that, based on their phrasing and how abysmal they are conveying information, they either do not have an answer or are attempting to find answers beyond say political, ideological, or religious radicalization.


I'm guessing a bit of that is missing, but I'll try my best. You are right, they do not currently have a motive, that is why they are trying round up all these persons of interest. As I already said, they will not be able to ever have a truly satifying motive without being able to question the man, who is dead. No matter what they do, unless some sort of statement made prior to his shooting is discovered, it will all be speculation. This does not mean they are trying to cover something up. If they were, they would present us with an explanation and build the case around it, instead of continuing to do their jobs in exploring every possibility. All current evidence does point to a simply disturbed man.

Most active shooters do not assume they are going to.escape or survive, at least not in any information I have been privy to. It is always assumed they will continue in mass or active shooting until confronted, in which they often kill themselves or suffer death-by-cop as it were. This is unusual, of course not impossible, but it adds well into that his entire circumstance is strange.


I did not say active shooters, I said mass murderer. I will concede that the number of active shooters who plan to escape is much lower, though in more than 50% of cases the gunman is either gunned down, or stopped, implying that the gunman was preemptively stopped, so we do not know if he would have eventually tried to flee. Slightly less than 50% commit suicide. What this situation is, is a combination of both. Once confronted with what he believed to be police forces he ended his own life, which does line up with conventional behaviour for an active shooter. His plot for a potential escape are in line with the additional careful preparations he took.

That is my only point, that there are too many unusuality about the man and the shooting as a whole; I wish I had more time to explain, but I am away again already. My point is not conspiracy theories, as those I do not peddle, but that there is too many pieces that are not fitting together well to just say mental illness.


Again, I'm not sure what you mean by unusual? Perhaps the desire to escape, though that is rather human in all actuality, and whether disturbed or not, the man is human. The fact that he rented a previous hotel, overlooking a previous music concert/festival, is slightly strange, though it seems to me that it is simply a case of a man who is disturbed fighting his demons (At the risk of sounding sympathetic to the man) This is also likely why he waited until the final day of the country event - he saw his window closing.

Also, I understand what you mean by conspiracy theories, but when you dismiss a lone gunman (Mental issues) and you discount Terrorism, the only answer that is left is a concerted effort by a group to inflict mass mayhem, or in other words a conspiracy. Again, this requires you to try and hypothesise motives of such a group, why would they expend their resources to murder/injure a couple 100 random people, yet make no statements to the public? If this was meant as a demonstration/protest of some sort, we would be told, by the instigators themselves.

For things not fitting together, it is easy to overthink things, which begins to make anything look more than a bit strange, especially when dealing with something that is outside of our everyday experiences. It is the same reason why people see someone floating on the ISS and says "hey that looks weird/fake" Welcome to zero-gravity (AKA free-fall) It's pretty weird, and completely outside of our natural ability to understand. The same can be said for any tragedy on this scale. When I look into the information that has been released+verified, it all seems to fit together relatively well. The lack of motive is moderately confusing, and I can see you require it as the central piece to the puzzle (justifiable) but considering the entire investigation suspect (They are withholding vital information from us) for something
that may not even exist seems like a mistake.

Also in the video I posted prior at aprx. 38:15 the man who is speaking explains it much better as to why there are communication " difficulties" or things not seeming to fit together well

Worse yet, the public is not buying the narrative being put out right now. People are losing their minds and are actually taking the real fringe theories more seriously than they should.


It is important to remember that 50% of the people you meet are below average intelligence. Paying heed to these people is the same as paying heed to the assholes who were claiming that the children murdered at Sandy Hook were not actually murdered.

Now I'm going to be delving into the more conspiratorial side, purely because what the sheriff implied around 33:33 in the video I posted piqued my interest, "These type of investigations have been occurring in the last few years, we have to evaluate that" the sheriff seems to be saying in some way that he believes this surge in mass shootings are all somehow intertwined/connected. I have been scouring my mind for some sort of explanation (As I already said, I don't believe the government conspiracy has any validity whatsoever to it anymore) mostly for admittedly what amounts to macabre entertainment, but the only explanation I can conjure up is some sort of strange cult, with no clear motive - as I said before you would expect some sort of communication from these instigators - unless it is all part of some insane ritual they believe in.

Thoughts?

(Would you believe I actually had no clue who Tom Petty was before I looked up that song for a terrible joke? RIP)
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<Snipped quote by Andreyich>
You mean democratic separatists.


As it stands I don't believe in your bullshit so no
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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Anarchists have been responsible for every political upheaval since overlord Bush destroyed the twin towers for the underground Lizard people. Wake up dude, c'mon @catchamber
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You mean apart from anarchism always being a problem in catalonia, the chants they have as well as the addition of a star to the senyerra that mirrors that of cuba?

Anarchists have been responsible for every political upheaval since overlord Bush destroyed the twin towers for the underground Lizard people. Wake up dude, c'mon

aren't you clever
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aren't you clever

Eh, I kinda felt like it was weak. But isn't it still speculation? I wouldn't think anarchists would be organized enough to create a referendum, I think they would focus on a larger area than Catalonia, and I also think they'd be confident enough to outright say that is what they are. Plus if Catalonia devolved into anarchy, it would get put down very quickly.

Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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@Sanctus Spooki, still limited time and from a source that is obviously not to be trusted, but we are sinking deeper into that side of the depths where there's a great amount of question to be had. While I doubt the validity of Julian Assange's statement here, it certainly is helping to cast a shadow of doubt like this Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department's supposed leak. No less, it matters not how intelligent or not these people are, as again mass is a power all its own. Just that there is such deep mistrust and division at play is all that is needed to push this over the edge.

As for, "being told by the investigators themselves" that is the exact issue; they are not saying anything. Their public relations right now are perhaps reaching near zero in credibility. Everyone is awaiting an answer and having failed this, they have allowed skepticism to run rampant in an environment where no one, rightfully, trusts the government.
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Just as a heads-up. Key player here is Wasserman-Schultz, but there are a ton of House Democrats caught up in this.

*Note: I wouldn't normally link you to the Daily Caller. For reasons I can't possibly imagine, CNN isn't covering this. Odd, huh. Their last reporting was in January, unless you count an unrelated and reposted opinion piece from the accused himself on July 31 (attributing negative coverage to islamophobia and bigotry on the right, which almost certainly isn't the narrative CNN prefers).
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