Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Shyri
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I totally get that the official map is divided differently from the one I used, but ew, my territories look shitty on it.

It'll do.. but.. EWWW.


I drew 4 lines to make your soul hurt less.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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@Shyri

no wot r u doing his soul is supposed 3 b pain
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Pepperm1nts
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Okay, now paint it royal purple.

PS: You know what'd be dope as a long-term thing? If Aaron took that Hoff meme and made something serious out of it. When he makes leader portraits again, if he does, it'd be cool to overlay them over countries like that. It'd make his job of managing the map harder, but that's alright 'cause he deserves it for his past map-managing transgressions.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Inkwell
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<Snipped quote by Inkwell>

And how are you going to get the stones to the mines? Trucks? How are you getting the fuel to run the trucks. From within your borders? Oil's on the other side of Southern Russia and local fuel sources would be heavily fought over as much as mineral mines. From outside? How are you paying? This is a part of Russia that's by and far largely all farms, and who would trade with an economy as gutted as Russia and with a party in the larger conflict without a currency, or whose currency would be so poorly backed and non-established it's basically worthless.

And let's say you can, how are these being managed? You'll need parts to replace on these vehicles, they'll inevitably break down or come on accidents and attrition will slowly break down the logistics between mines and the front. So you'll need replacements, and replacements come from factories. how are the factories being operated? There may not be any electricity, or there'll be a shortage of energy to run them consistently. Cottage industry may not be able to catch up with such industrial demand.

And then you get the stone to the front: you'll need concrete. And assuming Caucasian stone is limestone and not something like granite you won't be able to make concrete to adhere it all together so it holds up to mortars if the enemy has that. And how are you going to grind the stone to a usable powder to make concrete? Heavy grinders are needed for that.

And then we come back to transport: so assume you don't have heavy transport and you're using horse and mule-drawn wagon. That takes time, the same as grinding stone from mines to a usable powder for concrete, assuming it's limestone or a calcium-based rock. And by the time you get one Hoxha Brand (tm) bunker down the enemy has already moved around utilizing the great expanse of the southern Russian steppe to high-mobility advantage.

The best field fortifications would be what man can dig with a shovel on a spot and if or when available timber supports to hold up the earthwork banks.

And onto civilian services: if no fuel whose driving cars? There'd be no ambulances, no power from the power plants. Electricity wouldn't work and phone service would be dead or spotty if there was electrical power. Infrastructure like this is a large national affair and implies a strong economy. The region would be set back to 1860.

Supplying basic needs like food and fire-wood as fuel or even managing livestock would certainly be a service that persists, but it'd likely be rendered in the old peasant world of mutual aid and village-to-village assistance living outside of the political paradigm and just floating with whoever says they're in power. They would throw their lot into a militia organized by your government but that would honestly be the limit, and only so much as they can afford since they're walking out into the fields now to reap their wheat and barley with sickles and baskets to harvest it as they may have been doing for centuries.

Southern Russia would be very much a land of overlap realistically with only firm grasp of prominent cities where the urban population would be severely dependent on the government to keep them from starving or managing what little resources they have to address the handicaps to have some minimal level of life; what can be done to keep them from starving, dying of preventable disease, and some minor police and fire protection. And beyond there they'd be in open competition with everyone else and competing over the villages with the other factions.

As my Russian friend said in his experience with the Southern Russia, think more in terms of Cossack LARPing than trying to be a Russian Republic in miniature. Western Russia might be able to pull it off better because they have the infrastructure, but they also need regions like the Caucus and Siberia to run it, and they're either poorly developed because all that development is in Moscow and Saint Petersburg or these regions are vastly underpopulated.




Another comparison would be: like depth-of-Civil-War-Somalia, but add more slav.


I understand your points but do have a few to make. For one near Krasnodar their is both oil extraction and refining (I looked on some old resource maps). So that will provide me with some fuel. Also you can make dry stone walls without concrete but I have to admit earthworks would be better maybe. Also transport I was thinking of limiting it to very high ranking officers or government officials so there would only be a handful on the roads (less than 50). All other cars would have been scraped for parts. Also there is a limited rail network in the south so I could use diseal trains but would probably only have one or two.

I have to say north of the city of Krasnodar I would probably have it as technically under there control but it is pretty much lawless like the old west. Only a few horse patrols go every now and again. They offer rewards for bounty hunters.

My government would probably collect a food tax from farmers which would have them collect a small portion of the farmers crops. Thus keeping the cities feed.

For the most part I see my country going back to 1860. However you would see government using what little fuel/resources to have a small amount of technology. But I imagine that by 1960 my country is at the limit of what it can produce and it small pieces of advanced equipment are now beginning to fail. Thus them looking out to the wider world for support.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

I understand your points but do have a few to make. For one near Krasnodar their is both oil extraction and refining (I looked on some old resource maps). So that will provide me with some fuel. Also you can make dry stone walls without concrete but I have to admit earthworks would be better maybe. Also transport I was thinking of limiting it to very high ranking officers or government officials so there would only be a handful on the roads (less than 50). All other cars would have been scraped for parts. Also there is a limited rail network in the south so I could use diseal trains but would probably only have one or two.

I have to say north of the city of Krasnodar I would probably have it as technically under there control but it is pretty much lawless like the old west. Only a few horse patrols go every now and again. They offer rewards for bounty hunters.

My government would probably collect a food tax from farmers which would have them collect a small portion of the farmers crops. Thus keeping the cities feed.

For the most part I see my country going back to 1860. However you would see government using what little fuel/resources to have a small amount of technology. But I imagine that by 1960 my country is at the limit of what it can produce and it small pieces of advanced equipment are now beginning to fail. Thus them looking out to the wider world for support.


The thing with fortification lines is that projects like the Maginot Line took eleven years to build for a relatively wealthy, industrial, non-civil war wrought country like France. If we excused the depth of the line itself, the French built it at 4-5 miles a day over the span of those eleven years for the 943 miles. Geography may be different where you're situated, but the reality of Russia is different with borders less than static.

And possessing oil fields and refineries doesn't really imply automatic security in wealth. Simply having it doesn't mean you get the wealth-creation of someone like the Arabs or any large oil-carrying nation. Not only would oil and gas be cheap, but local instability means either no one would want to gamble their investment and put money into the area to develop or maintain those fields until the situation stabilizes, but because other groups may and will need fuel oil and gas that they would also be raiding those locations to either knock them out and deprive you, or seize them and enrich themselves. Places where there is conflict does not mean that there'd be a consistent workforce in the area; either working skeleton hours or abandoning the area all together.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Inkwell
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<Snipped quote by Inkwell>

The thing with fortification lines is that projects like the Maginot Line took eleven years to build for a relatively wealthy, industrial, non-civil war wrought country like France. If we excused the depth of the line itself, the French built it at 4-5 miles a day over the span of those eleven years for the 943 miles. Geography may be different where you're situated, but the reality of Russia is different with borders less than static.

And possessing oil fields and refineries doesn't really imply automatic security in wealth. Simply having it doesn't mean you get the wealth-creation of someone like the Arabs or any large oil-carrying nation. Not only would oil and gas be cheap, but local instability means either no one would want to gamble their investment and put money into the area to develop or maintain those fields until the situation stabilizes, but because other groups may and will need fuel oil and gas that they would also be raiding those locations to either knock them out and deprive you, or seize them and enrich themselves. Places where there is conflict does not mean that there'd be a consistent workforce in the area; either working skeleton hours or abandoning the area all together.


Point well taken I’m changing my app so in stead the land is doted with small earth forts which have a small amount of men and horses.

Also I understand that the oil and gas would make my nation rich. I also understand that other rebels may sabotage the fields or try to steal from them. However they are so far west that this would be a challenge for them if they come from inland. But I do think that raids would happen a lot from the coast. Also I completely agree that getting enough people to man them would be a struggle.

Thanks for the feedback and I’m working out the changes in my app.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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However they are so far west that this would be a challenge for them if they come from inland.


It wouldn't be that difficult. Literally two major Cossack Hosts would be your neighbor.



The Kuban in the north and Terek in the east. Both over lap and envelop the area around you centered on the rivers they derive their names from. And without Soviet-styled forced deportation or elimination of them as a group, they are considerable adversaries. The whole of Kuban Oblast would more than likely be a Russo-Ukrainian Hetmanate due in part to the Kuban's long history of Imperial patronage.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Pepperm1nts
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Bend the knee to the Imperial government and we'll send you a bunch of papertowels we got from Germany.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Inkwell
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<Snipped quote by Inkwell>

It wouldn't be that difficult. Literally two major Cossack Hosts would be your neighbor.



The Kuban in the north and Terek in the east. Both over lap and envelop the area around you centered on the rivers they derive their names from. And without Soviet-styled forced deportation or elimination of them as a group, they are considerable adversaries. The whole of Kuban Oblast would more than likely be a Russo-Ukrainian Hetmanate due in part to the Kuban's long history of Imperial patronage.


Did not realise that. Thanks.

Bend the knee to the Imperial government and we'll send you a bunch of papertowels we got from Germany.


I’ll bend the knee when pigs fly.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Inkwell
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Hope this is closer to what you are looking for.
@Dinh AaronMk

Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Letter Bee
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@Dinh AaronMk, @Inkwell:

Perhaps Inkwell's nation could come to a settlement with the Kuban and Terek Cossack Hosts somehow? Perhaps by playing them against each other? Inkwell's nation's diplomats can say to the Kuban and Terek that their country can serve as a buffer zone between them and that if they are taken over by either Cossack host, then said Cossack host will become a threat to the other?
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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Hope this is closer to what you are looking for.
@Dinh AaronMk



>Nationalize cottage industry

Excuse me, but how do you expect the state to seize someone's homes and for this to work?

Honestly, reviewing the app it reads more like you're tacking on what I'm saying and not really critically applying any or much of it. It's at the stage that if you really want to be someone in southern Russia does it really need to be a liberal democracy? Frankly, the military order would be more capable of asserting itself. A Kuban Hetmanate would be more viable in the area given the relatively powerful political position of the Cossacks in the area.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Letter Bee
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<Snipped quote by Inkwell>

>Nationalize cottage industry

Excuse me, but how do you expect the state to seize someone's homes and for this to work?

Honestly, reviewing the app it reads more like you're tacking on what I'm saying and not really critically applying any or much of it. It's at the stage that if you really want to be someone in southern Russia does it really need to be a liberal democracy? Frankly, the military order would be more capable of asserting itself. A Kuban Hetmanate would be more viable in the area given the relatively powerful political position of the Cossacks in the area.


Hey, I used to do the same; I still do with some of my character-based RPs. It's sometimes hard to give one's nation believable flaws, all right?
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

Hey, I used to do the same; I still do with some of my character-based RPs. It's sometimes hard to give one's nation believable flaws, all right?


He's simply putting them on in what sounds like a means to get me off his back like he's stapling "character flaw" to a cutout.

I'm not blind.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Letter Bee
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<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

He's simply putting them on in what sounds like a means to get me off his back like he's stapling "character flaw" to a cutout.

I'm not blind.


Yes, my point is that I did the same before, and was made more stubborn by people being harsh. Heck, I was even hypocritically aggressive at other people who did the same things I have, with little reason to be so.

I mean, you're not exactly losing your temper, but I am just wary that we might turn off a potential player who's passionate and enthusiastic for all their flaws.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Pepperm1nts
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I did originally point out the unlikelihood of a highly progressive government developing in that area, under the circumstances, and in this timeline. Remember, that in PoW, the world isn't just technologically behind, it's also behind in general as a society. Anti-Semitism is probably a big thing in Europe and the US, and other parts of the world would have their own prejudices. I don't think Byrd wants to RP racists for the hell of it, but he does it because it would be the reality of the world that exists in PoW.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Byrd Man
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I don't think Byrd wants to RP racists for the hell of it, but he does it because it would be the reality of the world that exists in PoW.


...Yeah. That's what it is.....That. And nothing more.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Pepperm1nts
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#ByrdSelfExposed
1x Laugh Laugh
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Letter Bee
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I did originally point out the unlikelihood of a highly progressive government developing in that area, under the circumstances, and in this timeline. Remember, that in PoW, the world isn't just technologically behind, it's also behind in general as a society. Anti-Semitism is probably a big thing in Europe and the US, and other parts of the world would have their own prejudices. I don't think Byrd wants to RP racists for the hell of it, but he does it because it would be the reality of the world that exists in PoW.


<Snipped quote by Pepperm1nts>

...Yeah. That's what it is.....That. And nothing more.


Yeah, I know and appreciate that, because it's a good story. But earlier this year, I didn't see the virtue in good stories about crapsack worlds in NRP. Now, I do, but I still took a long time to learn a lesson.

@Inkwell, look, we're not trying to force you to do anything, but we do want to know; what do you want to play and what do you want for this game? What do you feel like playing and what would you feel happy with?
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Evangelli
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Is it possible to play in the Jerusalem/Palestine Area or is that taken or off limits?
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