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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by mdk
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<Snipped quote by mdk>

I wonder what side of the political spectrum they fell on....


Uberconservative*. There, now you all can quit bickering over it, lol.

*Uberconservative probably doesn't mean what you think it means. This was in New York, these were not rednecks, they were generally really awesome, smart, well-adjusted and successful people, like engineers and architects and actual doctors and the like. Not big on sex-drugs-and-rock-and-roll, and somehow videogames (which were just finding their way into homes/mainstream) got roped into that. Of course this was the same timeframe as like the whole Mortal Kombat gore debacle really kicked off for the first time, maybe the landscape was primed for hysterics. Anywho -- pretty sure the hearts were in the right place, but heads were firmly up their own asses. I really liked that church though.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@Dynamo Frokane I wasn't turning this into an argument. ;3

Also, mentioning there's more killing of fictional 'brown' people. Kind of misses the forest from trees of 'i can't believe x group is offended' don't ya think? :P

Saying it's not a new idea. In video games, or otherwise. But it doesn't need to be...Also the tv trope doesn't really even specify in video games, so very rarely has a good long list of them in any trope you see. Just giving you the idea, the 'tropes' around rednecks have been around for quite a long time.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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@Dynamo Frokane I wasn't turning this into an argument. ;3

Also, mentioning there's more killing of fictional 'brown' people. Kind of misses the forest from trees of 'i can't believe x group is offended' don't ya think? :P


Never said I was offended by it, I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the alt right who assert that all games have a left wing bias and wouldn't feature left wing or minorities as enemies in games.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@mdk Uberconservative means about as much as the alt-right does. :P I'd still argue till the day I die, it was the religious extremism. Which the left partook in back when they could admit christian's weren't just right wingers and the most liberal places on earth voted for Prop 8. (I also argue people like that are actually catholic in faith. Because it fits so much better into, judging everyone whose different or otherwise.) Not economic left/right politics. Maybe authoritarianism, if you need a label for it.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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Saying it's not a new idea. In video games, or otherwise. But it doesn't need to be...Also the tv trope doesn't really even specify in video games, so very rarely has a good long list of them in any trope you see. Just giving you the idea, the 'tropes' around rednecks have been around for quite a long time.


I mean I very much said that the trope is in movies (mostly low budget horror) I was refuting you saying that Far Cry 5 as a video game is repeating the hillbilly trope when the hillbilly enemy in video games is quite rare.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Uberconservative*. There, now you all can quit bickering over it, lol.

*Uberconservative probably doesn't mean what you think it means. This was in New York, these were not rednecks, they were generally really awesome, smart, well-adjusted and successful people, like engineers and architects and actual doctors and the like. Not big on sex-drugs-and-rock-and-roll, and somehow videogames (which were just finding their way into homes/mainstream) got roped into that. Of course this was the same timeframe as like the whole Mortal Kombat gore debacle really kicked off for the first time, maybe the landscape was primed for hysterics. Anywho -- pretty sure the hearts were in the right place, but heads were firmly up their own asses. I really liked that church though.


I mean yes I can agree with this. I never said everyone on the right hated video games, I said that most of the game hate in the 90s came from the right.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@Dynamo Frokane Just seemed a bit touchy, since it wasn't part of my point. But I agree/digress. Yes, hypocrisy and politics go hand in hand quite nicely. Hence, why I've gotten so sick of it. But I've realized I'm too smart hmm, too stubborn? I'm too annoyed, to let misinformation spread too long...because I know it's still effective towards idiots. And admittedly seeing it on both sides, more and more often is kind of only pissing me off. -.- this is a general statement



Also that meme is disingenuous. Because far cry 4 wasn't about Muslims at all, among other things. And it's also not funny which is the only thing memes are suppose to be.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@Dynamo Frokane
escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.9…

I just saw a thread commenting on this. And I guess the only real thing I can add. Is that its been popping up quite a bit recently. And I agree about another comment that they've been on and off bad guys in fiction for decades.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by ErsatzEmperor
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I mean, as a British person, it's always nice when the Americans pick a different stereotype to villanize in media.
1x Laugh Laugh
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@ErsatzEmperor Yeah. That's the real crime. British villains. Probably just because everyone in the U.K is miserable. ;P

Which apparently is not just a joke. And now I'm sad. :c

huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/uk-teenage…
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Andreyich
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<Snipped quote by Andreyich>

You're saying the same thing, a game with nazi cyborg dogs is representing nazi relations to christianity that aren't accurate to history. Do you know what an alternative fictional universe is or are you shoehorning in some blissful ignorance to make your 'point' stick better?


Ah, ignoring bits of what is writ, this is why you're so lovable dynamo.

But to what you actually bothered with or perhaps simply succeeded in understanding, it's an alternative fictional universe but not a wholly new one. Unless they explain why there is this sudden change as they did explain the nazi victory, you and your defence remain just as retarded.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by ErsatzEmperor
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Still, free health care.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by mdk
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Still, free health care.


"Free."

As I'm sure I've ranted about earlier, my own experience with free healthcare in the States has soured me on that whole concept. But that's why I'm not the PM, I suppose.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@mdk Yeah it's not really free. Honestly that whole thing can be taken quite badly, given how expensive it actually is and the very concept there's no such thing as a free lunch, is missed on a lot of people that just say and don't question what that means and how that actually can be accomplished. Though to be fair, it could have been sarcasm. :P

And unlike many other things, aside from maybe public education, (since at least U.S healthcare is actually better in some areas.) there's probably more issues with America's Healthcare system that it will need far more solutions to properly salvage.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Ah, ignoring bits of what is writ, this is why you're so lovable dynamo.

But to what you actually bothered with or perhaps simply succeeded in understanding, it's an alternative fictional universe but not a wholly new one. Unless they explain why there is this sudden change as they did explain the nazi victory, you and your defence remain just as retarded.


Not quite as lovable as you are, Andy.

Your initial argument still doesn't hold any weight, you're expecting them to be historically and consistently accurate in a game where they have never been interested doing that. They didn't explain mecha hitler either, but they managed to get the swastika right, totally inconsistent amirite? This is literally the equivalent of criticizing sonic the hedgehog because REAL hedgehogs aren't blue and they don't wear shoes.

If you're expecting any sort of historical accuracy or consistency from a pulpy, nazi killing, fever dream power fantasy, that was born out of the 80s and you're leaving unsatisfied, then the video game probably isn't the problem here.

I eagerly await your next 'laid back' insult while you find another wikipedia nazi fact that doesn't line up with Wolfenstein's story.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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@Dynamo Frokane
escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.9…

I just saw a thread commenting on this. And I guess the only real thing I can add. Is that its been popping up quite a bit recently. And I agree about another comment that they've been on and off bad guys in fiction for decades.


Yeah this basically agreeing with me, its been a well worn trope in movies, but there are actually only a handful of hick main enemies in videogames. Outlast is a bit of a stretch as most of those guys aren't hicks. Resident evil 4 places you in a rural spanish town of catholic farmers who have been infected by an illuminati expy that has bioweapons I'd argue that's a stretch too, I never saw them as 'hilbillies' but whatever.

My main and only point on hicks is this

They have been on and off bad guys for decades (popularised by deliverance) in low budget horror movies, and some southern gothica.
But in videogames, compared to communists, cartel members, and yes even middle easterners they are actually very under-represented.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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Also that meme is disingenuous. Because far cry 4 wasn't about Muslims at all, among other things. And it's also not funny which is the only thing memes are suppose to be.


Its not, the muslim quote is in reference to the far cry 5 reaction not far cry 4, they just put the text fairly close to the box so I can see how it can be confusing.

People who felt Christians were under attack in FC5 sometimes use the argument that to balance it out you should have a game where you kill muslims. Which is stupid because the wacko survivalist, mountain cult in 5 isn't even traditional christian.

And as far as you not finding it funny, humor is subjective, so there is no meaningful argument to be had there.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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The issue I believe is the original root problem, at least out of the two examples, is that the timing and marketing of Wolfenstein is bad, terribly bad and speaks to a deafness to the current political climate. Their researching and marketing teams should have known better than to dabble in either isle's politics. "Making America Nazi Free Again" is bound to come across as either gaming activism, that those involved are pushing a narrative, or as being completely ignorant to the way the public interprets things. Thus it is more reasonable to believe a major company as Bethesda or Machine Games have taken and advocated stance than say, made such a glaring oversight. Anyone can tell you attaching a label of political activism to your company is a deathnote if you are trying to market to everyone, even if you do it accidentally.

I add to this that when you call everyone a "Nazi" and advocate "Smashing the Fash" and "Killing Nazis", those accused people are going to develop the perception that they are now targets. Rightfully so, as I believe this not to be a phobia in the slightest but a natural reaction to perceived or actual danger. Where this becomes a bit irrational is... that this is a game, one notoriously not rooted in reality and realistically has more or less stuck to fighting actual Nazis since the beginning. The issue came in the aforementioned timing and angle they came in, which feels like a swipe at the "Alt-Right", of which is realistically anyone right of the New Left. As said before by others, this ties into a community that is deeply skeptical of anything outside their area of comfort historically and now more so post-GameGate and the social justice warrior invasion.

They are going to naturally draw lines and comparisons, even if that approach is incorrect. It is more surprising that people seem... shocked by this, that this reaction is somehow unexpected and uncalled for. Honestly this could have been seen coming a hundred miles away by the cloud of rabble it was rousing. This is a failure on one of two fronts, either marketing for being inept at figuring out the mood of who they want to target to or the management for dipping their toes into political activism. Either way, Wolfenstein deserves the criticism for making itself out so foolishly and then trying to say something like "... "we don't feel it's a reach for us to say Nazis are bad and un-American, and we're not worried about being on the right side of history here." in an official statement they made.

Supposedly their intent was that they did not care if it mirrored reality, which to me, between all the evidence, suggests they are willingly making their decision to be somewhat portrayed as activists. My opinion? The game was not and still is not worth purchasing as it is just not my taste, but they did sour my opinion of them by pursuing the angle they did and being opportunistic, but mainly questionable in conduct and motive.

Transitioning over to Far Cry 5, I am more confident that this is an argument stemming from the more Christian side of the hall who are normally portrayed as "crazy, armed, bible-thumping, doomsday prepping, hillbillies with big trucks" in their extremist forms and are generally stereotyped as zealots. To ignore the "Which religion in current times has more blood on their hands?" argument, this is not my focus as admittedly I do not care who is who or what is what, but all armed radicals openly opposing the United States are always the enemy. That is just myself in the matter and I perceive this a greater issue of timing, not so much marketing. The bits I have seen have more and greater overlap with classical cults like those of Jonestown or more specifically, the Branch Davidians who they share many tones and notes with.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@Dynamo Frokane It's just a bad meme. With a bunch of bitter, super desperate stretches. It has 4 comments without any likes on the damn thing. A untrue blank statement without any proof. (and proof to the opposite in fact.) Another blank untrue statement without any proof that it doesn't even make clear where it even comes from...And its disingenuous because it's right underneath it, and the controversy around 4, was people thinking the hero was on the cover and abusing minorities. So it seems like it's trying to pretend that's what it's doing.

Humor has to be funny first. It just looks like it's own form of bitching to me. So may be "subjective" but it's still a shit picture. Meme quality aside...

Outlast 2 is not a stretch. It literally has evil christian rednecks as every bad guy. And again they mention RE:7. You weren't reading the single paragraph very well. :P

And no, the thread's point is there seemed to be people following trends and having all the same type of bad guy in recent games. And it sort of was. But I was never going to convince you otherwise. I already agreed on the rest, so I'll feel fine in killing it there. ^-^'
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