@Pagemaster
Precisely. I figured we'd set the bar pretty low already, thus my version of Japan here would slot in just fine. Ultimately, I think there are some double standards at play here.

@Lady Lasciviousagreed, a desire to make Egypt powerful. Perhaps if there is some rework allowed, it would be good. I’m willing to play 1840’s Britain, but she’s going to be far more powerful than historical Britain since the British theory was they would always be more powerful than the next two navies combined.

I honestly think a Japanese female peasant is more realistic than Britain just going “Sure Egypt, you can have this insanely vital trade route, go crazy! No way this could possibly go wrong!”

@Letter Bee, I honestly think a Japanese female peasant is more realistic than Britain just going “Sure Egypt, you can have this insanely vital trade route, go crazy! No way this could possibly go wrong!”

Also, Egypt with ships of the line? Please. That’s like giving Brasil battleships in Second World War.

Nothing against Egypt being a thing, but it wouldn’t be a decent power, barely even a regional one.

@Letter Beeokie dokie.

Its Victorian era claims, like Russia claiming overlordship over all slavs because muh panslavism. If something can come out of said claims is another thing entirely.

Aaaanyways. What now? Does this apology means an agreement to loosen the rules or that you're sorry that this isnt what most had in mind? I'm still in. Who else is?

I think that a compromise can be reached without throwing your nation concepts out the window.

@Letter Bee I could see Britain making a deal with Egypt, but you should make it clear that they got some pretty hefty guarantees from Muhammad Ali that the Suez canal will be under their control, not Egypt's. Maybe ceding the bit of territory that is the canal to the British directly.

@Lady Lascivious I would suggest that, as mentioned before, Japan was swept by a particularly virulent plague that left Japanese society prone to rebellion. With so many people dead, it could justify women getting a more prominent role in society in 19th century Japan.

@Lady Lascivious I would suggest that, as mentioned before, Japan was swept by a particularly virulent plague that left Japanese society prone to rebellion. With so many people dead, it could justify women getting a more prominent role in society in 19th century Japan.

<Snipped quote by Eldritch Puppy>

Not super keen on a drastic population reduction, though. It kind of ruins any plans I might have had for joining in some jolly good wars on the continent if everyone's dead.

And I had no opposition to the original divergence whatsoever. I'm, well, the kind of person who wrote up basically Nazbol Japan for fuck's sake. My point was simply that I thought my proposal was perfectly sound with what, to me, seemed a pretty damn unlikely scenario. Mine is, also, unlikely, yes. But I assumed that in a world where the British were willing to cede that much control to a non-European nation and the Austrians caving into super liberal ideas in the 1840s, it was perfectly reasonable.

<Snipped quote by Lady Lascivious>

To be honest, I had worries about that last part, and it was my absolute limit or close to it.

As for the British willingness to cede that much control to Egypt, well, it helps that Egypt already had the land the British allowed them to keep. The British and the Ottomans were prepared to drive them off said land, but concessions were made to have the British betray the Ottomans and deal with Egypt as a (subordinate) partner instead.

I'm sure that the Wikipedia page for Muhammad Ali of Egypt said that he already controlled the territory he claimed and was about to overrun the Ottomans themselves.

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

Again - I'm not arguing against it at all. I think it's unrealistic, and the British would oppose it as it would upset the balance of power in the region and destabilize things, as well as being greedy imperialistic little bastards. The conservative and traditionalist factions do not have the 20/20 vision of history with which to realize that would be by far the best deal they could get, and him ceding Crete and making other such concessions would, in my view, absolutely infuriate them, since such factions are rarely motivated by purely rational logic.

I assumed we were playing a setting that allowed more low probability stuff to occur - and "peasant rebellion lead by a military genius and supplied by Russia in exchange for one of their longest running strategic goals" didn't seem all that outlandish to me, to be honest.

EDIT: An alternative proposal. A bad harvest leads to severe food shortages and unrest, instead of a plague.

Bad harvest is good with me if it is with you. It avoids the population crash issue of a plague. It provides context for the land reforms, as well as extra motivation for wanting to seize more land outside of Japan.