<Snipped quote by Andreyich>

It normally would, but one must remember that Canada is inhabited by loyal white subjects of the Crown who already made it clear in 1812 they didn't want to be American and that the British probably saw the Canadians as closer to kin than Indians. Then again, I could be projecting present attitudes to the past.

1812 was very different to the 1840s though, where we saw native Canadian rebels against Britain in people like Papineau and Mackenzie. Ultimately it was a status symbol of the Empire as opposed to the cash cow of India. Likewise, in their status as an unincorporated territory the Republic of Canada has more than nominal autonomy and freedom from core America especially in contrast to the relationship with Britain they had.

Thus this compromise where Britain still gets to keep Atlantic Canada and the vast profits from the fishing, trade, etc. As well as a foothold in North America to try reconquer the lands if it so desires while letting me have my pretty greater 'Merica.

Tbh what I would have a harder time believing is the US seizing so much of Mexico, when they explicitly chose not to go further south in OTL because of the prevailing racist attitudes of the time. They didn't want more non-whites in the US lmao.

That the US in this has taken control of so much indicates some dark shit is probably going down.

What a cursed fucking timeline we have wrought.

This is definitely chilling, although I cannot OOCly forbid it.

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

1812 was very different to the 1840s though, where we saw native Canadian rebels against Britain in people like Papineau and Mackenzie. Ultimately it was a status symbol of the Empire as opposed to the cash cow of India. Likewise, in their status as an unincorporated territory the Republic of Canada has more than nominal autonomy and freedom from core America especially in contrast to the relationship with Britain they had.

Thus this compromise where Britain still gets to keep Atlantic Canada and the vast profits from the fishing, trade, etc. As well as a foothold in North America to try reconquer the lands if it so desires while letting me have my pretty greater 'Merica.

All right, I'll approve it.

Tbh what I would have a harder time believing is the US seizing so much of Mexico, when they explicitly chose not to go further south in OTL because of the prevailing racist attitudes of the time. They didn't want more non-whites in the US lmao.

That the US in this has taken control of so much indicates some dark shit is probably going down.

What a cursed fucking timeline we have wrought.

Its far less outlandish a possibility than certain events in other sheets here. As well I already addressed those points in my sheet.

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

1812 was very different to the 1840s though, where we saw native Canadian rebels against Britain in people like Papineau and Mackenzie. Ultimately it was a status symbol of the Empire as opposed to the cash cow of India. Likewise, in their status as an unincorporated territory the Republic of Canada has more than nominal autonomy and freedom from core America especially in contrast to the relationship with Britain they had.

Thus this compromise where Britain still gets to keep Atlantic Canada and the vast profits from the fishing, trade, etc. As well as a foothold in North America to try reconquer the lands if it so desires while letting me have my pretty greater 'Merica.

But that takes away all the fun of having a war with Britain over the 49th parallel!

@Lady Lascivious@Yam I Am@Andreyich@Richard Horthy@Wernher@Eldritch Puppy:

Discord Server Invite has been made!

discord.gg/9czbSVd5Sc

Government

Name: Great Joseon State (대조선국) - Joseon Dynasty of Korea

Flag/Badge: Still tbd until I find a historically accurate standard of the contemporary Joseon dynasty

Head of State: King Heonjong

Head of Government: Queen Sinjeong (Grandmother of King Heongjong)

Ideology: Korean Confucianism (Absolute Monarchy)

Military

Army Numbers: 75,000 members of the standing army. In wartime, a significant pool of volunteers and irregulars is drawn from the Korean tradition of uibyeong - “Righteous Army.”

Navy Numbers: The contemporary Joseon dynasty maintains no significant naval forces, save for a robust system of coastal defenses.

Army Equipment: Line soldiers are equipped with metallic brigandine armor in the style of martial hanbok. Unique to the Joseon dynasty, experimental bulletproof soft armor - myeonji baegap - is fielded to some troops to protect against new firearm developments. Joseon firearms are referred to as chongtong and are a fusion of traditional Korean weaponry with modern advancements. Joseon troops utilize rockets, cannon, mortars, and handheld muskets. Rifles are rare, as Joseon doctrine adapts to modern developments of Western militaries.

Naval Ship Types: Naval theory and posited modernization programs center on historical doctrine, deriving heavily from the pairing of the geobukseon “turtle ship” and the panokseon warship.

History, Expansion, and Economics

History: The Joseon dynasty emerged from almost two centuries of peace and prosperity at the turn of the 19th century. In the 18th century, kings Yeongjo and Jeongjo maintained a delicate balance between the warring factions of the Korean peninsula. This policy of tangpyeongchaek resulted in the solidification of the Joseon dynasty’s power and rule over the Koreans. However, with the death of King Jeongjo, the Joseon dynasty began a significant decline with the rule of the “in-law” families. These rulers were ineffective: the resulting corruption and mismanagement sent thousands of Koreans into poverty. Korea became a “hermit kingdom”, increasingly isolationist and unwilling to communicate outside its borders.

The 1830s were increasingly complicated in the Joseon political sphere. Illnesses, regents, and shifts of power were commonplace as the Joseon dynasty struggled to survive a turbulent period. By 1840, the Joseon dynasty was ruled by the thirteen-year-old King Heongjong through the regency of his grandmother, Queen Sinjeong. Despite reaching adulthood, Queen Sinjeong refused to give up her regency due to the supposed incompetency of Heongjong. Kept satisfied with a good life in the capital of Hanseong, King Heongjong kept a low profile from politics and instead utilized his nature as a royal to live a life of vice and playfulness.

Queen Sinjeong, however, dealt with the increasing pressures of being surrounded by the Qing and the Japanese. With the dysfunction of her government rampant at every level, she sought to bail out a sinking ship. The Confucian ideals of bureaucracy had been tainted by clans, bribes, and all manner of impropriety. Despite this, there was no significant effort to improve the Joseon regime until 1844 when news of a revolution reached the Joseon palaces. The Shogun, who had left the Korean peninsula alone for decades, had been overthrown by an aggressive and assertive imperialist regime.

That summer, after the rise of Shogun Kumiko, an advisor to Queen Sinjeong voiced his grievances during a routine meeting. The advisor, a wise elderly veteran of Joseon politics, reportedly stood up to Queen Sinjeong and called her a fool in front of the court for continuing the status quo. In an impassioned speech, the advisor laid out the threats posed to the Korean people by the Japanese. He evoked the Imjin Wars that the Joseon dynasty had fought in the last decade of the 16th century, and argued that a new invasion was imminent if they were allowed to advance uncontested.

Normally, such impropriety towards the royal system would not be tolerated. But Queen Sinjeong pondered her advisor’s words and, after many days of thinking and consultation, the regent of the Joseon dynasty agreed to follow suit and prepare her country for the impending threat of the Japanese, Chinese, and Russians. Reactively, she sent her bureaucrats to find a solution to the rapidly modernizing threat of the Japanese across the East Sea. Their answer to her: send a diplomatic delegation to the United States across the ocean. Queen Sinjeong, after careful thinking, agreed.

The Korean party came ashore to the Americas after a long voyage. Outside of Oregon, the Korean diplomatic element landed outside a settlement and asked to speak to the country’s leader. Through a highly charismatic and specially selected diplomat who had learned English from the British, the Korean-American Friendship Party traveled across the United States to Washington, where the group of “exotic Oriental” diplomats were granted a special session with President Clay to voice their message. This meeting resulted in the historic pact between the Joseon dynasty and the United States, where the Koreans became the first significant overseas partners of America.

Until 1847, the Koreans received a significant amount of technological aid and investment from the Americans. Businesses and the government utilized Korea as a foundation to export their products, with the aim of defeating the Japanese and Russians across the sea. Korea, meanwhile, continued its modernization and professionalization of government and military. Queen Sinjeong, her view changed by the sudden encounter with an advisor, heavily utilized her bureaucrats to bring the Joseon dynasty back to the professional Confucian ways. It was now her responsibility to merge Western modernization with Eastern ideals.

Korea, through its vast investment in help from America, seeks to modernize and improve itself in the face of a Japanese threat. With the threat of the Imperial Japanese Revolutionary Army just across the East Sea, the Koreans struggle to build themselves into a power that can resist yet another incursion upon their homeland. While the political and societal ramifications of this rapid change remain uncertain, Queen Sinjeong remains steadfastly dedicated to the preservation of Joseon Korea. American culture and ideas seep into the country, seeding the classes of people who may oppose the absolutism of the monarchy. As a new year in 1448 dawns, Korea and Japan have reemerged; they are rearmed, renewed, and ready.

Territory: The Joseon dynasty controls the Korean peninsula up to the Amrok (Yalu) River bordering China.



Economic Description: Will elaborate later.

Historical Claims: There are no external territorial claims north of the Amrok River. It is the longest-standing international border in history, with over 800 years separating China and Korea.

@TheEvanCat
Well this complicates my plans lmao

@TheEvanCat, Accepted. Glad to see you back, SevanCat (sorry if that nickname is unwarranted).

Throwing my hat in the ring for France. Let's spice shit up a little. I'll join the discord after my nap.

Government

Name:
The House of Saud

Flag/Badge:


Head of State:
Faisal bin Turki Al Saud

Head of Government:
Same as Head of State

Ideology:
Wahhabist

Military

Army Numbers:
6,000

Navy Numbers:
None

Army Equipment:

• 1836 Brunswick Rifles
• Jezali Pattern Rifles
• 1829 Delvigne Rifles
• Kilij
• Old Turkish muskets

Naval Ship Types:
Nonelol

History, Expansion, and Economics

History:
The origins of the House of Saud go back to the mid 15th century, when the Mrudah clan of bedouins settled in the city of Diriyah in central Arabia. The Mrudah clan would grow in size and power and eventually come to rule Diriyah itself, which came to grow and prosper in proportion to the strength of clan Mrudah. As the clan grew though so did its ambitions and the ambitions of cliques within it. And as the old Bedouin proverb goes, “I against my brother, I and my brother against our cousin, I, my brother and our cousin against the neighbors” the clan split along lines of interest, with one sect leaving for Iraq, and the other coalescing around Sheikh Saud ibn Muhammad ibn Muqrin and thus the House of Saud would be born.

The independent of the House of Saud would however not come until the 18th century when the rise of the Wahhabist sect of Sunni Islam swept Arabia. Angered at Ottoman ambitions to declare themselves the Caliph – defenders – of Islam, the Wahhabi movement was critical of the Ottomans for their boldness and even of their decadence. While Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab himself was never publicly inflammatory towards the Ottomans, his political followers in the House of Saud were so bold as to be publicly against the Ottomans. Though nominally a vassal of the Ottoman Empire, the Arab house engaged in years of low-level broiling war with the Ottomans raiding into Iraq and the Levant from their home in the harsh deserts of central Arabia, though controlling the entire peninsula at the time save for the Rub al-Khali, Oman, and Yemen.

Though the conflict with the Ottomans was at a low level, best described as grudges by one vassal against another, it was by no means insincere. Propelled by a combination of religious fervor and state building self-interest the Saudi war against the Ottomans entailed the cleansing of Arabia, attacks against the Iraqi city of Karballah and the destruction of its Shia shrines, and strict control of Medina and Mecca, banning the playing of drums and musics by pilgrims from Egypt, Syria, and beyond. Despite the violence, this was met with esteem and support by the peoples of Arabia who saw the strict Orthodox tendencies of the House of Saud a blessing and a matter of good rule. But to the House of Osman, this became a threat.

In 1811, growing tired of the aggression of the Saudis, the House of Osman declared war on them and ordered Muhammad Ali of Egypt to invade Arabia and deal with the problem posed by the Wahhabists. Muhammad Ali sent his son Ibrahim Pasha to put down the rebellion and over the course of seven years a slow campaign across the deserts of Arabia was initiated, involving the destruction of cities and the extermination of populations as the House of Saud scrambled to mount a defense against the Egyptians. Eventually, the war would come to an end at Diriyah, where the garrison and population was exterminated, and the walls and trenches of the city leveled and filled in. The Ottoman-Egyptian forces, decimated the Arabians and capturing the last Emir-Imam Abdullah bin Saud of the First Saudi State, sent him to Istanbul to be executed and his corpse displayed publicly as a then warning against further rebellion.

This though, did not kill the House of Saud.

Though scattered remnants remained and the last man capable of taking leadership of the house, Turki bin Abdullah Al Saud who was able to flee Diriyah before its destruction, living in exile in the desert before eventually leaving for India to seek refuge. His son Faisal bin Turki Al Saud was taken to Egypt by Ibrahim Pasha as a captive, where through lacking importance compared to Abdullah bin Saud was permitted to live for a time in soft exile in Egypt, before returning to Arabia, and on invitation from his father himself left for India.

In India, the remnants of the House of Saud gathered around the court of the Empire of the Sikhs as refugees. There they were clothed and sheltered and even began new military careers in the Sikh army. Though leading small parts, the refugees of the House of Saud showed admirable bravery in the war in Afghanistan. The Sauds also made a popular decision to back the Sindhanwalias in Sikh internal politics.

Though austere, the differences in Saudi belief in Wahhabism has not seen them alienated among the Sikhs who find only their belief in austere modesty a humorous modesty reminiscent of the gurus of the Indian subcontinent. While shunning decadence the family in India practices many of the virtues of the Islamic faith in charity and faith and has carved out a niche and a following in Punjabi society which has allowed the House of Saud to reconstruct a small military base in India that they someday dream of bringing back with them to Arabia, and lay out revenge against the Egyptians and Ottomans that decades ago so annihilated their people.

Despite the distance all the same, they maintain contact with the rest of their clan in Arabia and with the people through letters, and Faisal bin Turki Al Saud has inherited the practice of his father Turki bin Abdullah as a poet and a letter writer, regularly writing missives about his love for Arabia and his desire to return to its deserts and mountains. He remains in close contact with the chiefs of the high deserts of Nejd and beyond and close Saudi family still living in the area, which after the war still maintains a nominal political presence in Arabia, as the immediate and organized Wahhabist resistance to the foreigners has for the time being, been laid low.

As the proverb goes:
“I against my brother, I and my brother against our cousin, I, my brother and our cousin against the neighbors, All of us against the foreigner.”

Territory:
Effectively as an independent polity: none.
As local provincial rulers in Egypt: Nejd

Economic Description:
The basic economy of Nejd was nearly decimated by the Nejd Expedition during the Ottoman-Wahabbi War, where in many of the settlements visited by the armies many of the men over the age of ten were executed and much of the infrastructure destroyed. Though cities like Diriyah enjoyed a vibrant agricultural life blessed upon the region by the Wadi Hanifa.

Historical Claims:

@Jeddaven, @Eldritch Puppy already reserved France earlier, but if he doesn't turn up in 24 hours, I'll approve your Nation.

@Dinh AaronMk, Accepted! I'm happy to have you. Now, will you join us in the Discord Server?

Edit: Sorry, Jedd; Puppy made good on his reservation.

Making the OOC thread.

@Eldritch Puppy, Accepted.

Please give Elkader to us. :P