Ruby said
Wisdom, Kestrel!In either case, thanks for sharing Brovo. <3 That's what RP discussion is for, and I'm sorry if you felt attacked. Please don't let it keep you from offering your takes in the future!

I won't. As I said, I was offended, that doesn't make you wrong. My being offended is no reason or justification for censoring you or ignoring your points in the same way that I would expect the opposite to be true.

Society just doesn't function if being offended is a legitimate reason to censor free speech and the right to question people.

Brovo said
...

(To explain my older post:)
Yeah, I know what the next paragraph was. I'm just pointing out how the previous one read. Offensive actions = bad, saying it's offensive is an automatic discouragement, even if you say they weren't in the wrong (unless acting offensive or obnoxious is the point, but that's a tangent).

I don't agree that questioning one's actions is the same as questioning their character (which was meant to be the main point, my bad if the post got disjointed, thar); it contradicts an essential part of debate etiquette. One can criticize someone's actions without it inherently out to offend the other party, and the other party can take the criticism of their actions without automatically being offended.

E.g. If a friend pulls you aside from a conversation to point out you did something dickish, they're not saying you're a dick. They're trying to prevent the same mistake again, and probably doing you a favor in whatever social graces in future.
(Though, I'll admit, it helps that this example's done aside public discussion, and not among it. The thread shiz got the latter treatment.)

And, on that note, criticizing an RP'ers bio is indirectly criticizing what they do, because they wrote and usually spent time on that bio. Pointing out a flaw in the bio is pointing out something wrong with their writing or their writing skills. Criticizing how they play or act is directly criticizing what they do. That (usually) doesn't state they're a bad player. Or, at least, a bad person.

Not saying it's wrong to be offended, I get why that happened. I just don't agree with the earlier point you made. About how to debate or discuss a disagreed point or action.

EDIT: I should say, though, that it seems we're actually mostly of agreement (albeit in different words). I didn't realize this initially. At this point, this is almost just a winded discussion in semantics. Apologies for that.

Ruby said
Nah, Tick. Brovo's not saying 'don't criticize' me. Although I'm not sure I agree methods=character. Methods are just as much a result of environment, and with that in mind...yeah, like I said earlier, I can certainly see where Brovo's coming from here. Being a GM can be frustrating. Being a GM with standards can make you want to set death traps for players you're certain are only going to waste your time. But perception=reality, and questioning the morality of someone's method could be seen as a question to their character.Did I know Brovo might take some offense? Yes. Did it stop me from calling the method uncool? Obviously not. Varying perceptions. I think the GM method in question is uncool, but not that big a deal. I'd feel the same way if it was Dervish or Jorick presenting the method, Brovo.Are some of my GM methods screwed? Probably. lol No one's perfect.

Ruby about covered the bases for that.

I will add that I don't think I was saying that I was defending my posts for being "not offensive", simply saying that I wasn't personally attacking you as a person. As others have mentioned, it's quite alright to call out something you find questionable that someone says or does while still respecting them as a person. Plus, you clarified what you meant to say. All is good! Healthy discussion and all that is good. I didn't think this was a big ego bashing snark fest full of insults and personal attacks. It was a good discussion.

Closing remarks?

Pie is a superior pastry to cake.

Dervish said
Pie is a superior pastry to cake.

What about cookie pie?
Have you tried cake shots?

I guess I just don't consider a relationship between a GM and a roleplayer to be a business agreement. Obviously, a GM has the final say on whether or not a player can participate, but I never base my decision off of the sheet alone. I often accept sheets I don't love just because I'm curious where that particular character will take a story. If I like the roleplayer's personality, and I see that we can become friends outside of the roleplay, I'd accept them over a perfect sheet but (what I consider) disagreeable roleplayer. A sheet will by no means be a deal breaker. Anyway, I can get a feel for a person's character by talking to him or her, or reading over past posts. I don't feel it necessary to turn them down to test their character, or make them jump through hoops to prove that they are willing to work with me.

o-o... I make awesome blueberry muffins. LET'S ALL HAVE SOME! -Holds out muffin basket.-

Dervish said
Ruby about covered the bases for that.I will add that I don't think I was saying that I was defending my posts for being "not offensive", simply saying that I wasn't personally attacking you as a person. As others have mentioned, it's quite alright to call out something you find questionable that someone says or does while still respecting them as a person. Plus, you clarified what you meant to say. All is good! Healthy discussion and all that is good. I didn't think this was a big ego bashing snark fest full of insults and personal attacks. It was a good discussion. Closing remarks?Pie is a superior pastry to cake.

Cheesecake.

I win. =)

Also; We kind of went off topic. We went from 'issues we're having with partners or possible partners' to 'how we accept people into RPs'.
I know I asked 'how you deal with it', but I think we drifted pretty deep. Lol.

But I think having this thread helped me find some decent partners. I have four new ones going and it's very enjoyable so far. A little ranting to forget the past really helps open the gates for better things to come. =D

NOW HAVE A MUFFIN! =D

@Sevaree: Interesting. To me, there is a certain degree of professionalism required in any format of collective assignment if you wish to be taken seriously and be respected, and return such expectations. Role plays have responsibilities, some require certain levels of skill in one way or another, and so on. Even if the agreement itself is unwritten, when one signs up to join an RP, it's generally recognized that they have thus agreed to the responsibility to post in that RP, follow the rules, and attempt to stay in character while typing posts in the IC. Players should treat each other respectfully and follow the GM's rules (not unquestioningly, but when the GM puts their foot down, it's generally considered poor practice to spit in their face and fight them on it anyway), and so on. This creates a cooperative and amicable environment.

That is, I have a certain series of expectations of players who wish to join my role plays. They don't have to be master writers (au contrairé, I love to teach anyone willing to learn), nor do they have to be the greatest role players of all time. I've even accepted the occasional Mary Sue if I saw even a little promise in it. It's the attitude of the player that matters a lot more to me. People who easily succumb to rage and impatience likely won't work in a format where openly constructive criticism and long posts prevail over slanderous compliments and rapid fire posts.

So, to me, it -is- basically a business agreement. If someone wants to pull out of it all they have to do is mention it, but they shouldn't be surprised if I'm wary to enter into another agreement with them, at least in the near future, due to their failure to uphold their own responsibilities on their end. (Extreme circumstances notwithstanding, like if a tornado blows up your house or both your parents were brutally murdered, I'm not going to expect you to post or stay in the RP, nor hold it against you, because... Well... I'm evil, not completely monstrous. )

Tick said
What about cookie pie?Have you tried cake shots?

This sounds rather dangerous. And double bipass worthy.

Miss Gallagher said
o-o... I make awesome blueberry muffins. LET'S ALL HAVE SOME! -Holds out muffin basket.-

Miss Peacemaker 2014. I want a muffin now. D:

Ruby said

Cheesecake.I win. =)

You're a monster. :[

Miss Gallagher said
We kind of went off topic. We went from 'issues we're having with partners or possible partners' to 'how we accept people into RPs'. I know I asked 'how you deal with it', but I think we drifted pretty deep. Lol. But I think having this thread helped me find some decent partners. I have four new ones going and it's very enjoyable so far. A little ranting to forget the past really helps open the gates for better things to come. =DNOW HAVE A MUFFIN! =D

I think it stayed kind of on topic. It's all good information for finding suitable partners! Hopefully everyone takes home something new they can use for their future games.

Yeah, in my firm the partners are always the worst. I hate it when we work with lawyers.

I didn't read the rules of the thread, but this is what we're talking about right?

XD Key word, dear. 'Kind of'. Exactly why I wrote 'kind of' went off topic. Hehe.

I normally don't trawl through the OOC sections, but I have some issues here and there. I'm guilty of some bad habits.

I joined the Guild at a time when I had a lot going on in my life, and more than one RP board i was a part of. It was kind of an escape from reality. However, I had a lot of irons in the fire, and fell behind in RP's and/or had to drop them. Since then, things have normalized, but I found that I wind up dropping or fading out because of some issues.

Rapid posting - I work in the evenings, but I'm usually off by 9 or so, Central time. When I come home and find five new pages of IC posting and 3 new pages of OOC posts in a thread. Sorry, I will drop that RP like a hot rock, especially if by the time I've read those posts, there's another page of IC posts up. I didn't join the RP to play speed racer against other people banging out (usually very crappy) single paragraph posts ever thirty seconds. I need the time to catch up and digest.

Absent GM's - If you're going to start a game or interest check, I would expect a GM to have enough time to devote at least one or two check-ins per day, or at least every other day. If you set something up and then can't be bothered to check back for five days or a week (Barring some great emergency) ... Why bother at all? And if you're going to be semi-absent, or bail on it.. don't set yourself up in such a way as the players don't have the freedom to make decisions, or can't more forward without your direct feedback.

In 1x1's, if your interest is waning, I want to know. Either, so we can fix it, move on to something more interesting, or call a stop, and maybe do something else. Re-evaluating the RP and the story is not a problem, and I don't see why people can't do this. Also along these lines - Diminishing returns. If a person is posting less and less and slower and slower, it makes me not want to work as hard to make something work. It also is usually a sign that the person I'm RP'ing with is loosing interest. I tend to give as good as I get, sometimes more.

Format-picky people: I've had an issue from someone simply from the way I write dialogue. I told them I disagree on the matter. I did not tell them this in a mean, disrespectful, or derogatory manner. I did decide to do a little research and look into their suggestion, and I found what htey had to say had merit. With that set of information in mind, I sent them a message in that I had reconsidered, conceded that they did have a point and they were right. I was more than willing to continue the RP with them with formatting changes. I never heard back from this person again.Just because there's a small disagreement over something as simple as formatting is not a reason to throw away a good RP, or RP partner, nor is it a good reason to ignore someone, especially if they're sincerely apologizing. Maybe they'll read this, maybe the won't.

Mixed messages - Don't start an RP, especially a 1x1 with seemingly the idea of primarily putting two characters together in a situation, if you're really wanting to throw many people out there. Don't tell me you're having fun if you're not, and if you're thinking about quitting, or want to do something else, let me know. Kinda goes with what I said earlier.

Railroad Express - If you, the GM, have something in mind for the plot, let me/us others in on it. I may be more than willing to help you get us there. Don't force everything to try to go a certain direction if you're not expecting your players to work directly in conjunction with you. That just makes your attempt to guide the plot seem hollow, forced, and very shoddy. If a player comes up with a good, logical counter-argument as to the direction of things, and can back it up, boxing them in just makes it worse. I've had this done to me in at least one sandbox type of environment, in a zombie apocalypse. The GMing as far as rules and mechanics was great, but for guiding the story and plot he was poor. He denied that he was trying to force the group where he wanted, but when you look at how he had arranged things, it was pretty clear. Now, if he had said "I would like for you to go this way," we could have found a way that would have worked better, or if he had gone with a counter-presentation, especially since the players had something different in mind, he could have made that campaign so much better.

Insulted Intelligence - I'm a pretty intelligent person. I grasp things quickly and intuitively compared to a lot of people. I favor logic and reason over emotions and feels. (I have them, don't worry). Do -not- treat me like I'm stupid. Do not be condescending. I had a lot of people beat into my head that I was stupid, retarded, useless, for years. At one point, I believed them, but it took some time and i broke myself free of that. I'm not good looking, I'm not infinitely charming, I'm not the healthiest person, but my mind is very sharp, and it's probably what I value the most.

These are a few of the issues I've had in recent memory, and I thought here might be an appropriate outlet.

A common issue I have is partners dropping a few posts in without any notification. I know I'm guilty of it too. Hell, we probably all are, but please a little notice would be nice? If you're not enjoying the plot you can at least be honest with me and say so.

This is semi-relevant. 'cause it relates to people dropping. Also I forgot to reply to this.

Dervish said
reservations snip way back on page 1

It's not that complicated at all, actually.

From my experience on RP gateway (where this practice is fairly prominent) reserving slots is just like an interest check phase over here. As you probably know, the transition from interest check/reservation to OOC will cause you to lose at least 30% of those who expressed interest or made a reservation. 50% on gateway because it's an even more anonymous clusterfuck due to it's organisational structure. However, with reservations, you actually block other people from taking those slots, causing them to stumble upon your RP, get excited, see reservations, leave because it's full and then never ever return. tl;dr You're effectively dropping a plan B when your plan A has a high chance of failure. Which IMHO is kinda failing GM 101; recruitment is a number's game.

o-o Reminder; I said 'kind of' going off topic. KIND OF. Lol. Most of what was said was on topic, but it was getting deep enough that we were starting to sway.

=D I'm also incredibly sick right now. It really sucks... ;-;

But I'm glad to see people letting out some frustrations about experiences they have had. It's always good to let it out--to breathe. ^.^

I think what I hate a lot is when someone comes to you, you go into mass details about RP, and then they ask you to post first. So, you post first...and you never hear from them again. THAT bugs me more than anything. More than people disappearing later one. I feel like they purposely wasted my time.

On my current threads, I tell people that; "If you don't want to roleplay anymore and don't want to tell me the real reason as to why, simply tell me "I'm too busy to continue this RP". I won't ask questions and the RP will be done with.

Because at least the I am aware that it is over. I get really pissed when someone vanishes for 10 days, then they go; "Oh, I was busy."

I'm sorry, unless you have an EMERGENCY, you can spare a few seconds, or a minute or two to send your partners a, "Hey, sorry about this, but--" message.

If someone vanishes, I will lose interest in the RP after about 5 days if I don't hear a word from them. It's hard to keep interest in a story when it just comes to a stop.